I was holding off on submitting this due to issues with movie rules and sync on official libTAS builds but it's April Fools so here we are

Environment

libTAS: 1.4.1 interim 1ad9949 or newer + SCUMMVM 2.2.0
OS: Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS kernel 5.8.0-45
System: i5-9300h + UHD Graphics 630

libTAS options

Game Executable: usr/games/scummvm
Command Line Options: baseball (must launch scummvm once outside libTAS and select Add Game to add the folder where the backyard baseball game files sit)
To get encoding to work I also had to set SCUMMVM options stretch mode: center and Aspect Ratio Correction: on, but this does not appear to be relevant unless dumping an encode

Goal Choice

Backyard Baseball is one of the best and most well known kids sports games, being the first game in the Humongous Sports franchise and the first appearance of many famous characters including Pablo Sanchez, Pete Wheeler, Kenny Kawaguchi, and many more. The TAS follows the RTA "6 inning pick up game category," in which a pickup game of random teams of the kids is selected. The stadium can be chosen in RTA to use the faster concrete fields, but in TAS the stadium has little to no effect. A finished run of this goal simply has to win the pick up game (finishing the pickup game but losing does not count). The game -does- have a credit sequence that is reachable in the season mode, but there is no different gameplay in a full season except some slightly harder opponent batting RNG in the playoff/world series games and different stadiums (which again do not appear to affect TAS gameplay). This coming at the significant downside of the gameplay being repeated 21 times to get through the 14 season games, 2 best of 3 playoffs, and a best of 5 world series.

TAS route details

Intro menus

The cornerstones of this TAS are the escape button and the location of left button clicks. This being a SCUMM game, it is effectively an entire implementation of baseball shoved into a point and click adventure. Immediately off the bat we use escape twice to skip the Humongous logo and an opening credit sequence. We then click on the window to get to the pick up game menu and open the options. In the options we set errors off to eliminate error RNG, though hilariously errors can still happen rarely with errors off (mainly when players are facing away from the ball or are thrown the ball when very short). We turn on the pitch locator purely for entertainment value (the location of your pitches has little effect on AI gameplay as long as they are strikes and where you swing doesn't matter so the information is not useful to the TASer on either side). Last in the setup menu, we set difficulty to hard as the AI throws the ball sooner and faster and just generally reacts more quickly, getting outs and ending innings faster (compare with RTA where this is not certain to be helpful as you may need to reset way more to be able to score and prevent the opponent from ever scoring). In "Sound options" we turn off only the options that slow gameplay - the play by play and color commentators Sunny Day and Vinnie the Gooch and the player talk option; the rest of the audio of this game is essential and hilarious.
After starting the game by exiting options and clicking "play ball," we click "home" to swap to the home team. The ability to do this was discovered in 2019 by RTA Speedrunner Yellowfish, nothing in game readmes or the UI indicates that the word "home" is a clickable interface to switch home/away sides. We then click "play ball" again to advance to the meat of the gameplay.

Playing the Best Baseball of a Pitcher's Life

The starting second of the TAS used by libTAS is manipulated so that at this point the teams start with pitchers with fast animations and you have a first batter in one of the innings who can run reasonably quickly; Ronnie and Amir are known to have some of the fastest pitch animations, and Dmitri later will be able to run the bases. There is potential to manip more with startup time; there are some hidden game mechanics with players having on/off days that can make them run faster, and players supposedly have "on" days where they run faster/hit better on their birthdays, but these aspects are mostly irrelevant since almost everyone is instantly going to be getting out. One important aspect to research in the future may be that Amir tends to favor curveball pitches which are slower to than fastballs and are less consistent to hit causing longer delays setting up RNG, so it may be necessary to factor both windup animation length and fastball odds.
For the first six batters we're introduced to the basic cycle of the TAS: hit escape to cancel the batter's walkup animation to the plate (first frame this is possible is the frame where the batter's name appears in the stats at the bottom of the screen), and then either pitch the ball if in the field or wait for a pitch if batting. If open/center/closed stance needs to be changed to match an inside/outside pitch or a left/right curve, this must be done after the pitcher's windup begins or the pitcher will wait longer before throwing the ball. This also applies to choosing power/line drive/grounder/bunt options. An example of this is visible in Sally's at bat at the beginning of the bottom of the 1st inning. There is a -very- rare glitch known where a foul ball to the catcher can be called an out before the 3rd strike, but it is not known how to manipulate this. Whether a swing results in a line drive or ground ball or foul or strike is determined by RNG, with the timing of the swing determining whether contact is possible or not and which direction the ball goes, so the TAS is all about managing chained small delays to get that line drive RNG. For this TAS I set a bar for the RNG at making sure every at bat resulted in a low infield pop up or line drive. This is faster than other outcomes because the ball takes time to travel if a pop up is hit to the outfield, and if a bunt or ground ball happens and the batter is thrown out at first, the ball has to be thrown back to the pitcher before Escape can take you to the next batter or half inning.

Except for that One Run

The single run to win the game is scored in the 3rd inning. The batter is advanced with minimal timeloss by getting on base with the first batter of a half inning, and then advancing him one base at a time with sacrifice ground balls while manipulating the fielders to throw the ball toward first base. For the last batter it is necessary to make sure they reach 1st base safely so the run counts before intentionally stepping off the base to finish the inning.
For future reference: there is another glitch known to be possible with home runs. In a perfect TAS scenario, a home run might be on the surface considered suboptimal because the game sits doing nothing while the ball travels and you can't mash Escape to the next batter until the ball stops and a distance marker for the home run appears. However, on some fields a glitch can get the ball stuck not very far in the distance; for example in the shed in the center of Steele Stadium. If this could be done fast enough, it may be better than the time wasted while the ball is thrown back to the pitcher during the sacrifice plays.
The rest of the TAS continues as previously described getting outs as quickly as possible. A new quirk arrives in the last at bat as input is not needed to advance to the screen with the final score, so the last input can be moved back to the input to throw the final pitch, at which point we don't need to manipulate anything beyond to make sure that the hit is able to be caught without any input. The last pitch also needs one more frame of input than you might expect because the location of a pitch is actually read the frame after the click to pitch, and we do need to throw a pitch that is hittable (in other words the location of the mouse cursor is essential game input on its own for the frame after clicking to pitch).

Samsara: oh, that's a baseball!
Spikestuff:
slamo: Ok, I didn't expect this to actually sync. I'm gonna pass this off so we can figure out what to do with it.
feos: This movie may involve quite some meta level discussion, so let me handle the boring nomenclature part.
feos: Canceling as discussed here. Hopefully next libTAS release will also allow to set which system you're playing the game from, to let the user specify this for all the non-native-linux games, so that the site parser could also work with that info.
Whenever it plays on a libTAS release that implements the required functionality, this submission can be uncanceled and judged all the way.

feos: Replacing the movie with one that works in latest libTAS release and has annotations. Not judging it until I finish my current judgments. If some other judge grabs it by then, I won't complain.
feos: Changing the platform to Windows since it's what the userfile intended to use. Still to be decided what it should be.
slamo: Judging for real this time.
slamo: So this is a bit of uncharted territory for the site. We have known for years that various source ports and other game engine replacements work in libTAS, but we have never had a serious submission using one until now. ScummVM is quite stable in libTAS, and we've gotten multiple people to sync this run without too much trouble, so it deserves consideration.
There was some discussion about how ScummVM works in the submission thread. To summarize it, ScummVM is software that replaces the game's executable and attempts to run some reproduction of the game using the original game's data files. Because this software can add features and fix (or create) bugs, any game run in this software is not really the original game, but it is still a valid game in and of itself. Obviously we will need to keep an eye on the quality of any game engine replacement, but ScummVM is quite good and is even used in official re-releases of many games. Any game submission should have "ScummVM" as the version to distinguish it from the original version, and if the original version is submitted, we can then discuss which one is preferred. Official re-releases that use ScummVM should probably just be treated as an official game version under Linux.
The platform is going to stay Windows. The game had no official Linux release, and ScummVM is not really a "game", so it shouldn't be considered a Linux run. The movie uses data files from the Windows version, so it will be treated like a Windows game.
The optimization looks fine to me. The outs are fast, and the way you score the one run was actually quite creative. The home run sequence looks like it can be lengthy, so this was probably the right decision.
The goal is a bit of a weird one. "Pick-Up Game" is a separate game mode with an obvious ending, so that's good. There are settings in the game setup that can drastically affect this mode. 6 innings, hard difficulty, and errors off all serve to minimize the game time. However, the "Tee-Ball" mode is not selected. This mode appears to be shorter since you just hit a stationary ball with no pitching animations, but it's also far less interesting and would make the run a little too trivial to optimize. Regular mode is a far better representation of this game, is more technically impressive, and more closely resembles baseball in general. Our current Vault rules for sports games only allow for one game per series, so this is probably the best way to showcase this series. A full season run would likely obsolete this run, though. The publisher should look into shortening the branch name to just "Pick-Up Game", since it would be kind of arbitrary to have "6 Innings" in the branch name but not the other game settings.
Feedback was somewhat limited but not great. I'm going to say that this category is Vaultable for the reasons given earlier. Accepting to Vault.
fsvgm777: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
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Bigbass
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Seeing this extremely RNG heavy game being cut down to sub 5 minutes is really exciting to see. Extra cool how you were able to get multiple outs and a run at the same time. Yes vote!
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Why do you keep sending out broken ladders to hit the ball?
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Please post a movie with full annotations included. Also does it work on any libTAS release?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It doesn't work on any official release so feel free to put it on hold or cancel it pending a release (in the meantime I'll prepare a movie with annotations)
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Are sure it will work in the release though?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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om, nom, nom... want more!
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I can confirm this syncs on the new libTAS 1.4.2 release. I had to turn off all OSD to get it to run.
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Thanks! I'll uncancel it once a movie with annotations is provided.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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From my understanding, ScummVM is a source port that can run games that use the SCUMM engine. This begs the question: As the games themselves were originally either released for DOS or Windows, how should they be classified as? Should they be under the platform they were originally released at (DOS, Windows), or should they be under the source port the game effectively runs at (ScummVM)? In my opinion, they should be under the former, which, while it does require checking on various websites, guarantees that the game is under the correct platform the game was originally released in.
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I think the platform for this game should be Windows. While this version of ScummVM runs under Linux, it's just a replacement for the SCUMM engine and should be treated like any emulator: if the game runs authentically with the original Windows game data files, then it should be considered acceptable and should be classified as a game under the original platform. This game also never had an official Linux release, so that might be confusing to viewers looking for this game.
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/72628097014133020 I've attempted to bake annotations into the TAS as directed and it runs for me on 1.4.2 on the system described with the OSD options deselected (thanks slamo for the note about OSD) edit: to be clear I'd like this to be uncancelled per the annotations being added and the 1.4.2 release.
TiKevin83
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slamo wrote:
I think the platform for this game should be Windows. While this version of ScummVM runs under Linux, it's just a replacement for the SCUMM engine and should be treated like any emulator: if the game runs authentically with the original Windows game data files, then it should be considered acceptable and should be classified as a game under the original platform. This game also never had an official Linux release, so that might be confusing to viewers looking for this game.
There are a lot of layers of complexity to this. libTAS has some level of ability to TAS Windows games via Wine, so would we want both this submission and a libTAS+Wine submission to be "Windows Backyard Baseball?" I think we probably would; the original Windows engine is also known to run faster than the SCUMMVM engine, so if the Windows version were publishable through libTAS+Wine sometime in the future, it could quickly obsolete the scumm version and it would be more straightforward for all of that to be called "Windows Backyard Baseball." Another interesting layer is that most of the Humongous Entertainment titles have official Linux rereleases on steam using the scummvm engine, though this game specifically does not because the backyard sports franchise was spun off and is no longer owned by the same group that re-released the rest of the HE titles. In general I would suggest that the scummvm engine is the "better version to TAS" per movie rules than trying to wire up libTAS+Wine.
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slamo wrote:
I think the platform for this game should be Windows. While this version of ScummVM runs under Linux, it's just a replacement for the SCUMM engine and should be treated like any emulator: if the game runs authentically with the original Windows game data files, then it should be considered acceptable and should be classified as a game under the original platform. This game also never had an official Linux release, so that might be confusing to viewers looking for this game.
I agree that since it's not a Linux game, but an extra layer that makes this game run on Linux, it shouldn't be labeled as a Linux game. Since ScummVM is not a rerecording framework either, I wouldn't want it to become an entirely new system at tasvideos like DOOM became, alongside NES, DOS, Windows, and others. Yet since ScummVM introduces some unofficial tweaks to the game, we can't leave it out entirely. Probably the best option is to put it into the game version field. If the original version gets TASed via Wine or PCem, we'll just drop ScummVM from the version. As a result, I think this movie should be called Windows Backyard Baseball (ScummVM) "6 Inning Pick Up Game" in 04:45.05 by TiKevin83.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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From the ScummVM wiki (relevant bullet points were cherry-picked):
ScummVM is a project in which there is an attempt to rewrite the original executable file of a given game, based on the game's original source code or by using reverse engineering techniques to see the code that's contained in the game's executable and rewrite it in C++. This means that ScummVM's executable can be used to replace the game's original one, but of course, the game's data files (graphics, audio, game scripts, etc) are needed to play the game itself. Therefore, ScummVM is NOT an emulator of a specific operating system, as, for example, DOSBox is for DOS. ScummVM is actually a full rewrite of each game's engine, which has many advantages: * Some bugs which existed in the original game's executable (or specific scripts) may be fixed * LucasArts games have a much-improved menu and savegame system * Most game engines allow the player to save much more save games than the original interpreters did * In some games, ScummVM offers added functionality that did not exist in the original games. For example, it offers full mouse functionality in older Sierra AGI games, which had no mouse support ...and many more. The approach that is taken when implementing a game under ScummVM has some disadvantages: * Because the engine of each game in ScummVM has been rewritten from scratch, some bugs which were not present with the original game interpreter might exist in ScummVM.
So it's clear to me that ScummVM is not meant to reproduce the original experience, but rather it attempts to improve upon it. This is also the case with source ports in general. Software like this uses the original game data files but replaces the EXE, so we can't really consider it to be the original game. I think accepting movies like this and putting the name of the software in the game version is a pretty good compromise, as long as we are not explicitly passing this off as the original version. Movies like this should probably have the "Unofficial game" movie class as well if they deviate too far from the original. In the case where the original game is submitted on a proper emulator in an attempt to obsolete it, we can ask the audience which one they prefer (if there is no difference, the original game is probably preferable).
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4496] Windows Backyard Baseball "Pick-Up Game" by TiKevin83 in 04:45.05