Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
The run just finished. RTA time is 2:46:38. TAS time isn't released yet.
Is there any update on the progress for commentary for this? I've been waiting for the commentated version, but want to know whether I should keep waiting or whether I should just watch the uncommentated encode.
Fog
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Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 459
Patashu wrote:
Fog wrote:
The only sticking point of the Wind Waker TAS is the use of a patch which makes it possible to see when doing door storage. This seems to cause desyncs at about 50k frames without it (the only major place where door storage is used).
Just to make sure, not the kind of desync that can be fixed by adding or removing frames?
I mean maybe it could be fixed, but Dolphin's DTM file is notoriously hard to edit. As for the commentary, it is being worked on now. It was delayed due to Trog moving, among other personal things.
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Uhm, someone needs to contact Trog and ask him what's going on. Patience isn't exactly my type of skillset :)
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Active player (466)
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Posts: 405
He has posted on twitter in the past saying he's still working on it. I think he's been really busy lately with moving or something like that. I'm not too sure.
Experienced player (723)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
i'm surprised it wasn't submitted,i looked for it into the gruefood hoping to find some explanation about how it didn't sync at all but i guess that's not it.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Editor, Skilled player (1824)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1200
*cough* progress?
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
TWW Breaksliding Link to video
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Fog
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (641)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 459
A lot has happened over the past day or so. First, Girtana1 (the original glitch finder) was able to reproduce the Barrier Skip on HD with logged inputs: https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafUglyNeanderthalNerfRedBlaster Then, Linkus7 confirmed that it was possible to do without any late game items: https://clips.twitch.tv/SilkyLazyBeanSpicyBoy Linkus7 was then able to pull it off in a real run: https://clips.twitch.tv/RoughHorribleHerdUnSane Finally, gymnast86 was able to get World Record using barrier skip, while completing all dungeons in 3:05:57: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/134784046?t=3h51m35s As an added bonus, barrier skip is also theoretically possible on SD, but requires more speed than currently possible in that area: https://twitter.com/dragonbane0/status/851550715705249792 All in all, the actual skip is rather simple, just needs to be in a somewhat precise location and angle for it to work.
Editor, Expert player (2331)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
So reading that twitter, SD barrier skip is basicly just around the corner, waiting to be done. That's pretty damn awesome! I never thought clipping past a wall at a mere 40 speed was ever going to be possible. What if you use a bomb to gain extra speed for one frame? (similar to ball clip and goku clip in GB Trip World, for example - those are clips that only work due to gaining extra speed for 1 frame, not that a 2D gameboy game compares much to a 3D gamecube game, but just saying)
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Posts: 405
MUGG wrote:
So reading that twitter, SD barrier skip is basicly just around the corner, waiting to be done. That's pretty damn awesome! I never thought clipping past a wall at a mere 40 speed was ever going to be possible. What if you use a bomb to gain extra speed for one frame? (similar to ball clip and goku clip in GB Trip World, for example - those are clips that only work due to gaining extra speed for 1 frame, not that a 2D gameboy game compares much to a 3D gamecube game, but just saying)
https://twitter.com/TrogWW/status/851880257158344706 Some Wind Waker runners have been trying this lately. Hopefully they get it to work.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
MUGG wrote:
So reading that twitter, SD barrier skip is basicly just around the corner, waiting to be done. That's pretty damn awesome!
I guess it can be done with 35 speed and the highest speed you can get is 30 with a breakslide. That is pretty damn close, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much yet. If it's possible I would guess it would be TAS only, unless some very precise setup is found. But then again, tases are what we are here for anyway. :D It would be pretty amazing if we could have a run with storage and barrier skip in one.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Back to HD though. Do you guys think a TAS could island hop into the loading zone for the helmaroc fight? That would cut out a ton of game. I guess the route would be: - Super Swim to Dragonroost get the graple and windwaker - Island hop into helmaroc loading zone - Barrier skip - Light arrow skip - Puppet Ganon skip - kill Ganondorf edit: forgot puppet ganon skip needs bombs and I think also leaf. So it wouldn't cut out that much. But still, some. You also need leaf for a few skips. I'm actually not quite sure what you would get, graple or boomerang. So, - SS to greatfish - SS to windfall, get bombs - SS to forest haven, get leaf and boomerang - SS to dragonroost, get wind waker - Island hop into helmaroc loading zone - Barrier skip - Light arrow skip - Puppet Ganon skip - kill Ganondorf ? Edit: I guess even if you can't island hop you could cut out a bit of shenanigans if you just stay swordless till after dragonroost and SS into the moblin sub.
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Would skipping Puppet Ganon even be faster if it forces you to go out of the way to get items?
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
andypanther wrote:
Would skipping Puppet Ganon even be faster if it forces you to go out of the way to get items?
You need to do something to get to Ganondorfs loading zone since you don't have the hookshot. Which is in the last dungeon and thus would never be worth getting. There are three methods to get there: - Puppet Ganon skip - Fairy hover - Boomerang heart hover Puppet Ganon skip requires bombs and the leaf. But the other two strats also require bombs and they require you to defeat puppet Ganon, which means you need to get a quiver at a fairy fountain to be able to shoot light arrows, since you never get the bow. Unless there are some other skips found with item slide you need the leaf anyway to skip the trails. (I might have forgotten to mention it in my last post) So puppet Ganon skip is the way to go, since leaf and bombs are required anyway and it saves you a trip to a fairy island to get the quiver. Still I'm a bit unsure if graple or boomerang would be faster. Since tas can hover in dragonroost both dungeons seem kinda on par. Wondering if there is another way to cancel the damage field at the barrier. If so you'd never have to get the wind waker and thus never go to dragonroost, which should make the boomerang faster. The biggest problem at the moment is that cemu doesn't have tas tools, afaik. I always thought the dolphin people would add WiiU eventually, since the architecture is still the same as GC and Wii, but it doesn't seem like they have any aspirations in that direction... Not sure if any of the other WiiU emulators have anything close to playable games.
Former player
Joined: 4/18/2015
Posts: 168
Location: Canada
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much time barrier skip approximately saves? I saw that the RTA time went from around 3:40:00 pre-barrier skip to 1:56:11 as of today.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
About two hours seems realistic. It cuts out all 5 dungeons and the triforce quest.
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Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Can someone please explain the barrier skip "history" to a non-zelda runner like me? The clips make it seem far easier than I imagined. Like, what was the main difficulty in doing so, and what caused it to suddenly work after all these years? Sorry to sound naive or anything, just don't exactly follow it very closely.
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
jlun2 wrote:
Can someone please explain the barrier skip "history" to a non-zelda runner like me? The clips make it seem far easier than I imagined. Like, what was the main difficulty in doing so, and what caused it to suddenly work after all these years? Sorry to sound naive or anything, just don't exactly follow it very closely.
. The Barrier Skip used in TWWHD requires a speed higher than any achievable (with known tech) in original TWW. Getting said speed in turn required a glitch called Item Slide, which was discovered around June/July 2016. (TWWHD itself came out Sept 20 2013.) (The reason why Item Slide took so long to discover seems to be because the inputs for it are so unlike any used in casual play and speedrunning.) Then, after that, you have to Item Slide with specific speed (too slow and too fast don't work) in a specific position and with a specific angle in a very small range of angles. Given that absolutely anything short of getting all 3 at once does nothing, even if you mess around with Item Slide in the barrier for hours, you may just get bored and figure there's no application here. Even after it was done once, it was not reproduced for many months. Finally when it was reproduced using tools that show Link's input and angle, it was possible to reproduce additional times, study and create a setup for. (It was also confirmed possible in original TWW, if you hack in the speed required.) Also, the 'gap' in the barrier that can be Item Slided through has no visual cue or any other kind of cue. It's not like Ocarina of Time's Temple of Time skip, where there's a gap in the door that you can see if you orient the camera right. Many other possibilities to skip the barrier were studied over original TWW's speedrunning career, and none were found to be viable. It's ridiculously tall both upwards and downwards. Zombie hovering doesn't work. You can't bring a superswim or door storage to it. And so on.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
gymnast86
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Posts: 32
As far as an HD TAS route goes, getting the grapple hook is unfortunately required as HD has no way of getting to the Leaf without using the grapple hook. You can't zombie hover up since any items you collect while dead don't actually get collected in HD. You can't zombie hover up the outside either as there's no way to heal and get into the top most loading zone of forest haven (which is the highest loading zone on the overworld). Light Arrow skip in this case would not be faster, as getting boomerang would be a 4 minute detour and Light Arrows take ~1 minute to get. We can however, skip getting the quiver and get past Phantom Ganon using this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-3Tox2Kjw Also, as SlowKing was mentioning, there is in-fact a way of doing Early Master Sword with simply an Item Slide from the top of Forest Haven. I did it with frame advance on console and then spliced it together to look like real time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jLBKV0ipoQ With all this in mind, this is the fastest route I can think of: - Skip intro CS - Superswim to Greatfish - Superswim to Submarine, get caught, beat FF1 with broken lighting (Beating FF1 is required to spawn the King of Red Lions, otherwise the game will crash in Hyrule 2. The lighting will be broken during FF1 due to the game trying to apply endless night weather effects) - Spawn at Windfall, get Bombs - Superswim to Bomb Isle submarine, obtain bottle - Superswim to Dragon Roost, get Wind Waker - Catch water in bottle, Rock Skip - Watch Delivery Bag cutscene, exit to pond area - Pour water on dry bomb flowers, blow up pond rock (Normal bombs don't work here, only bomb flowers) - Emter Dragon Roost Cavern - Go through first room - Hover up to second story (having an RNG falling rock kill a keese for a heart) - Go through the final few rooms until grapple hook - Savewarp out after grapple hook, exit DRC - Savewarp out to the front of DRI - Island Hop (an item slide with so much speed you can get to other islands in a single frame) to Forest Haven - Ledge Clip in and watch Deku Tree cutscene, climb up and obtain Leaf - Leaf out to highest southern entrance of Forest Haven and perform EMS - Helmaroc Skip with Item Sliding and Roll Clipping - Hyrule 2 - Item Slide clip to Hyrule bridge to skip going through the castle - Barrier Skip - Item Slide into Ganon's Tower - Trials Skip - Obtain Light Arrows - Phantom ganon Skip - Item Slide up grand staircase, grand staircase skip - Puppet Ganon Skip - Ganon If there is a way to get the Leaf early discovered in the future, then getting the boomerang would be the ideal option as a first person item. It would also allow for full Light Arrow Skip, Dragon Roost Skip, and Bottle Skip.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
MrGymnast86 wrote:
You can't zombie hover up since any items you collect while dead don't actually get collected in HD.
Intersting, did not know that. What a weird change.
Light Arrow skip in this case would not be faster, as getting boomerang would be a 4 minute detour and Light Arrows take ~1 minute to get. We can however, skip getting the quiver and get past Phantom Ganon using this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-3Tox2Kjw
I meant the skip shown in the video you linked. Didn't know you had to pick up the light arrows for phantom Ganon to spawn there. Well, close enough. :D
Also, as SlowKing was mentioning, there is in-fact a way of doing Early Master Sword with simply an Item Slide from the top of Forest Haven. I did it with frame advance on console and then spliced it together to look like real time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jLBKV0ipoQ
Did not know that somebody had pulled that one off already. That's really cool.
- Superswim to Submarine, get caught, beat FF1 with broken lighting (Beating FF1 is required to spawn the King of Red Lions, otherwise the game will crash in Hyrule 2. The lighting will be broken during FF1 due to the game trying to apply endless night weather effects)
Might it not be faster to delay FF1 until you have the graple? Although, now that I think about it, it's probably faster to get the sword from FF1 than from outset and I would assume you can't get the graple without a sword since you have to fight a Moblin to get it.
- Superswim to Bomb Isle submarine, obtain bottle - Superswim to Dragon Roost, get Wind Waker - Catch water in bottle, Rock Skip - Watch Delivery Bag cutscene, exit to pond area - Pour water on dry bomb flowers, blow up pond rock (Normal bombs don't work here, only bomb flowers) - Emter Dragon Roost Cavern
Instead of doing all this couldn't you just zombie hover into the DRC loading zone? You should respawn in there, shouldn't you? Edit: Just found out that in HD you can't go into loading zones while dead. Another weird change. So RIP that idea I guess. I know nothing baout HD, it seems. The rest of the route looks very good. :) That would be an insanely fast TAS, if there was only an emulator for the WiiU with TAS tools. I'm actually wondering if somebody could write full fledged TAS tools (I mean with (re)recording. Afaik most else is already done) for the WiiU itself and if such TASes would be accepted here.
TrogWW
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Joined: 7/27/2017
Posts: 1
Hi all! Trog here. This is my first time posting on these forums though this was definitely a long time coming. Giving everyone here an update on TWW TASing scene. We are currently in the process of working on a full game 100% TAS. I say we because this is in fact a community effort. Working alongside me is KryptekSR (https://twitter.com/KryptekSR) and CGF95 (https://twitter.com/CGF95_). The project is currently ~22 minutes in and has already featured several glitches/tricks not seen in another run of this game. Since the any% TAS there have been several discoveries for further optimizing TAS movement, with brakesliding being the biggest timesaver. At this time we have yet to decide if we want to release any public WIPs but if we decide to I'll make sure to post here. I am also happy to say that we are taking extensive precautions to make sure that this run will be completely desync free. Most notably we are forgoing to not use the fadeout hack last used in my any% TAS, as it had a nasty tendency to cause desyncs. With that being said we are hoping to submit this project for submission here when it is finally complete. A few extra notes:
    This run will use the tingle tuner build created by Dragonbane. The tuner allows for some really creative and interesting routing that would otherwise not be possible. While we are attempting to accurately simulate how a real tuner would behave we understand that using this could be grounds for rejection.
    Because we are no longer using the fadeout hack, door cancel movement will be sadly limited, as we will now be completely blind performing it. Thankfully though this isn't too much of an issue because there are so many chests we are required to open (and store) in this category we can largely substitute chest storage for door cancel.
For those of you interested in reading the route check here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tt1VLXWaAwdeC24r3p5BA06uq1P2p0wfgGWXrxfuflw/edit?usp=sharing The route is largely incomplete at this point because much of the route past Forsaken Fortress 1 highly depends on day/night and more testing needs to be done on it. The early game route can exist largely independent of anything past FF1 thankfully so almost nothing we do now can end up hurting us later. This is the current working document so as we progress expect the route to be filled in more. Here is basic summary of the early game route for those who want to know more about the underlying theory behind it. - After gaining control we immediately head to Grandmas and get the hero's clothes.
    It's debatable whether or not the hero's clothes is a required item, as the ZSR rules don't specify it. Thankfully though we don't get an option to skip it, as talking to Grandma is required to have Aryl give us the telescope later, which is obviously required.
- Immediately after we head to Dragon Roost to get the wind waker, which is a no brainer. Best item in the game. - We head to Windfall next to get the tingle tuner, another broken item, while there we get a few extra items.
    The sail is acquired now rather than after FF1 because it allows us to get bombs and Nayru's pearl before FF1. If we were to wait KoRL would softlock us after watching the FF1 cutscne. Because we want to purchase the sail early we do sploosh kaboom to net us an easy 80 rupees. The Song of Passing is also learned now, in a theoretical sense it would be faster do it later, however we are forced into getting it now to resolve a day/night issue which I will discuss later.
- After getting the pictobox from the maze we save warp back to Outset, where Aryl is still waiting for us.
    Because the game still thinks we are in the intro state (and will continue to until we acquire the Spoil's Bag), all save warps will take you back to Outset.
- Upon arriving back at Outset, we collect our telescope and use a tingle balloon superswim to enter the invisible pirate ship.
    During the intro state of Outset the pirate ship is always there, and until you watch the cutscene where the ship is chasing after Helmaroc (which we are skipping anyways) it will simply be invisible. Using a tingle balloon we can enter the ship early, letting us skip the rest of the intro.
- Get spoils bag from rope game 1. Save warp to FF1 pirate ship. - Skip the barrel launch cutscene using storage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLJEiAXHkM). Trigger the gossip stone cutscene. Save warp back to the pirate ship. Get bombs.
    Skipping this cutscene has a major impact on the routing and it means dividing FF1 into two parts. By skipping this cutscene our save warp flag never progresses, and the next time we save warp we will be back at the pirate ship. What this means is that upon collecting the gossip stone (which is the trigger for advancing the pirate ships state), when we save warp back to the ship we can enter it and immediately get bombs. Leaving the pirate ship again conveniently takes us back to Windfall.
- After visiting Greatfish for endless night we do the tingle balloon swim from Bird's Peak Rock to Forest Haven for leaf early. Just like the any% TAS.
    Triggering endless night now is actually critical for the route. Because we are using a TAS only glitch known as endless day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YsjTDVeCTU when we reload the ocean to make it officially night the time of day gets set to the previous midnight, instead of the usual next midnight. Without the backwards movement of time we would miss our opportunity to take a picture of the full moon when we finally upgrade our pictobox
- Perform deku tree cutscene skip and get the leaf, another powerful item.
    Because we got bombs early, we can use a different method of the cutscene skip that the any% TAS couldn't do. In all it saves ~20 second https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u2Xz2OELc4. In addition, we also dupe the leaf for *fake* double magic. While we will eventually need to get the real double magic from the big octo, getting a fake one now only takes about 10 seconds and will give us liberal use of magic for portions of the run normally not possible. It also lets us clear the Two eye reef quadrant in one trip during the end game when we have to go there anyways to collect the triforce shard.
- Head to Outset and use chest storage to break down the wall to get Nayru's Pearl without KoRL. - Play Song of Passing to make it day and head to Forest of Faries to get the 1k rupee wallet.
    This is where it gets slightly complicated. During the intro state of the game the Forest of Faries (FoF) has a cutscene that shows Tetra hanging from a tree limb. If you never save Tetra by killing the bokoblins the cutscene will linger. Unfortunately this cutscene actually causes the game to crash if you attempt to come there after beating FF1 without saving Tetra. While we don't care about saving Tetra, we do need the rupee wallet inside, so we must get the wallet before beating FF1 while the cutscene can still play normally. However, there is a secondary complication to this as well, in addition to not beating FF1, it must also be day time. For whatever reason, entering FoF at night will also cause the game to crash. For the longest time I thought that even entering FF1 would cause FoF to crash, but as it turns out, FF1 just forces the time of day to night. Unfortunately with our lack of equipment we cannot waste enough time to let day come naturally, and this is why we need Song of Passing so we can force it to day.
- Our save warp flag is still set to be at the FF1 pirate ship, and after save warping, we enter the 2nd state pirate ship and leave to end up at Windfall. - We head back to FF1 via the moblin catching exploit inside the Northern Fairy submarine used in many TASes of this game, collecting the 5k rupee wallet and a treasure chart on the way. - FF1 gets completely destroyed with the tuner/bombs/leaf And that's what we have so far! After that will be dungeon clearing which is sure to be interesting. If you have any questions or suggestions let me know. I'll be keeping you up to date here.
Tompa
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Editor, Expert player (2216)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
This is a great announcement and one I wasn't really expecting! Seems you've been doing great so far in the run. This will be an amazing TAS!
Joined: 4/13/2009
Posts: 431
Looking forward to seeing this when it's finished. Good luck on the run!
rvdog815
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Posts: 30
100% TAS WIP from TrogWW, KryptekSR, and CGF95: Link to video
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Absolute madness! Really looking forward seeing more stuff.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

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