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Posted: 6/14/2012 7:51 PM
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Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Ah, I didn't remember you in the chat. I was too busy finding crap with storage. I still like my method better :P. Looks so much cooler. In other news, I think we have decided not to use forest water. Too much of a pain, and getting Rang may save time later. Rang saves time over Forest Water for light arrow skip anyways.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/14/2012 7:56 PM
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jlun2
Skilled player (1741)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4981
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Abahbob wrote:
In other news, I think we have decided not to use forest water. Too much of a pain, and getting Rang may save time later. Rang saves time over Forest Water for light arrow skip anyways.
You mean the entire run would not use forest water? Does that mean no skipping the boss key in the Forbidden Woods?
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 6/14/2012 8:18 PM
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Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
That means no skipping BK in Forbidden Woods, correct. But this is not a 100% sure decision of course. Nothing is decided yet.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/15/2012 12:23 AM
(Edited: 6/15/2012 4:19 PM)
Quote
Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Forest Water Analysis. Reasons Forest Water needed reconsideration: The Bottle Skip: We previously needed a bottle to perform Cabana Deed skip. Now that we do not, the ~70 seconds associated with gathering a bottle is directly associated with Forbidden Woods Boss Key Skip ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXdt6zZTDo ) Light Arrows Skip: Since it is possible to skip Light Arrows only with a boomerang, getting the boomerang (which was required to beat forbidden woods without forest water) is now a benefit, and contributes ~70-90 seconds saved later. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGV--6dk3t4 ) These news facts combined with previously known more lengthy routing patterns to execute the route, leads me to believe that forest water is no longer worth getting. 3 routes are presented. 1: Grab Forest Water as early as practical 2: Grab Forest Water after FF1 so we can get deku leaf (need sword) and forest water on same trip 3: Don't grab forest water at all. Route 1: 1: Superswim to Forest Haven to trigger cutscene 2: Superswim to Bomb Island, get bottle 3: Superswim unload speed clip into Forest Haven (no wind waker), get FOREST WATER (20 min) 4: Superswim to Windfall, get sail 5: Superswim to Greatfish to trigger endless night 6: Superswim to Northern Fairy Isle, (Get 1000 Rupee Bag), Enter FF1 7: Beat Forsaken Fortress 1 (FF1) 8: At Windfall, Let Tingle Out, Get Bombs 9: Superswim speed clip into Forest Haven, zombie hover deku leaf 10: Superswim to DRI, get wind waker, get wind requiem, Complete DRC with BK Skip (Need Leaf) (It may be marginally faster (10-20 seconds) to go to DRC early on and wind waker dive twice instead of speed clipping twice.) (Then sprinkled in in some order) 11: Optional: Superswim to Bird's Peak Rock, grapple glitch to get triforce chart 12: Optional: Place Din's Pearl (Northern Triangle Isle). 13: Optional: Get Needle Rock Isle and (EDIT: Not possible to superswim drown the boat to you during the early game) Islet of Steel Charts. 14: Optional: Get Diamond Steppe Island Ghost Ship Chart. 15: Superswim to Forbidden Woods: FOREST WATER Boss Key skip (20 min later) This route will always be doing something productive to run down forest water timer, however: Compared to Route 3: - Gets a bottle (+70 seconds) - Does not get boomerang (+90 seconds for no light arrows skip later) - Wastes about +70 seconds getting into Forest Haven early (first time), cutscene trigger causes first superswim momentum to be wasted, then we get the bottle, then we have to do a huge superswim from bomb island to unload.) - Wastes about +40 seconds traveling to Forest Haven a third time. >>Total: 4.5 minutes wasted to execute a Forbidden Woods Boss Key skip. Route 2: 1: Superswim to Windfall, get sail 2: Superswim to Greatfish to trigger endless night 3: Superswim to Northern Fairy Isle, (Get 1000 Rupee Bag), Enter FF1 4: Beat Forsaken Fortress 1 (FF1) 5: At Windfall, Let Tingle Out, Get Bombs 6: Superswim to DRI, get wind waker, get wind requiem?, 7: Superswim to Bomb Island, get bottle 8: Superswim wind waker dive into Forest Haven, get FOREST WATER (20 min), zombie hover deku leaf 9: Superswim to DRC, Complete DRC with BK Skip (Need Leaf) (It may be marginally faster to go to DRC early on and wind waker dive twice instead of speed clipping twice.) (Then sprinkled in in some order) 10: Optional: Superswim to Bird's Peak Rock, grapple glitch to get triforce chart 11: Optional: Place Din's Pearl (Northern Triangle Isle). 12: Optional: Get Needle Rock Isle and (EDIT: Not possible to superswim drown the boat to you during the early game) Islet of Steel Charts. 13: Optional: Get Diamond Steppe Island Ghost Ship Chart. 14: Superswim to Forbidden Woods: FOREST WATER Boss Key skip (20 min later) I showed this to show that not having the trip early on will not be able to use the time on forest water to do anything productive at a decent rate. The problem is that the 20 minutes will not expire between steps 8 and 14. I'd speculate there is something like 5 minutes left to go. Note: The ghost ship will always be at Crescent Moon Island during the TAS. If you go after FF1, It seems you will be dragged into the distance for 55 seconds to Pawprint Isle. This is regardless of whether or not you are supposed to be headed to Windfall, Dragon Roost, or Forest Haven. If you go before FF1, you do not have a deku leaf to perform the skip across the room. EDIT: You can't go before FF1 because you don't have KoRL to open the chart. For this reason in this route it is unreasonable to use the ghost ship for money to use 5 minutes of forest water timer. Route 3: 1: Superswim to Windfall, get sail 2: Superswim to Greatfish to trigger endless night 3: Superswim to Northern Fairy Isle, (Get 1000 Rupee Bag), Enter FF1 4: Beat Forsaken Fortress 1 (FF1) 5: At Windfall, Let Tingle Out, Get Bombs 6: Superswim to DRI, get wind waker 7: Superswim wind waker dive into Forest Haven, get Deku Leaf 8: Go to Forbidden Woods: Beat dungeon (No grapple, yes boomerang, yes boss key) 9: Superswim to DRC, Complete DRC with BK Skip (Need Leaf) (It may be marginally faster to go to DRC early on and wind waker dive twice instead of speed clipping twice.) This theoretical route saves about 4.5 minutes over route 1 minus the time that forest water saves inside FW. It also saves any time wasted from improper forest water timing arrival (probably 10-15 seconds) This begs the question, "Has anyone tried beating Forbidden Woods before DRC?" I haven't. If it is possible to beat FW before DRC without locking the game, I am pretty sure this route is fastest. We have no bottle, but we have boomerang to save time later in the game (light arrows skip and probably a fair bit saved in savage labyrinth.) This route also allows placement of intermediate events at our choosing. This will save some small number of seconds just by having better travel paths throughout the run. I am about 95% sure route 3 is the one to build off of at the moment. There may be errors in this post. I need to figure out if we can get to the ghost ship during that first night without wasting a lot of time, or if it will have to be postponed to the second night.
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Posted: 6/15/2012 3:18 AM
(Edited: 6/15/2012 3:24 AM)
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Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Remember, you can't do ghost ship before ff1, because you need KoRL to open the ghost ship chart. On route 1, you could do forest water light arrow skip later. Also, it may be possible to dive with letting water out of a bottle. Perhaps that could be used with forest water to save time unloading. Just a bag dive. And on route 1, you didnt subtract time saved over fw bk skip on the 4.5 number and that seems a little biased. And you don't include the time on route 3 for the second trip to dri. Another thing to consider is entering forbidden woods. If it is done before drc, korl will take you back to dri if you try to get on. You would need to use the normal way in. This means atleast another wind change.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/15/2012 3:18 AM
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Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
It's hard to believe Storage isn't useful, but given the clipping glitches, I guess it makes sense for a TAS. Even if boss key skip was faster (and it doesn't seem like it is any more), the versatility of not having to plan around Forest Water might well make up for the time anyway, especially since glitches continue to be found for this game and drastic route changes might end up happening every time a new trick comes into play. Nice Light Arrow skip, by the way. I realize it's a it old, but I hadn't seen that one yet. Really is a shame Tingle Tuner support is such a distant dream...
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Posted: 6/15/2012 4:31 AM
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jlun2
Skilled player (1741)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4981
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Acheron86 wrote:
Nice Light Arrow skip, by the way. I realize it's a it old, but I hadn't seen that one yet. Really is a shame Tingle Tuner support is such a distant dream...
How fast would the run be with tingle tuner?
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 6/15/2012 4:37 AM
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Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Faster in several places. A big one now is entering dri. Without tuner, you need to get the messenger bag and watch the whole intro inside the room. It makes zombie hovers suck too. I would say atleast 10 minutes, just for small optimizations as well. Green ting would be nice too.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/15/2012 4:41 AM
Quote
jlun2
Skilled player (1741)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4981
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Abahbob wrote:
Faster in several places. A big one now is entering dri. Without tuner, you need to get the messenger bag and watch the whole intro inside the room. It makes zombie hovers suck too. I would say atleast 10 minutes, just for small optimizations as well. Green ting would be nice too.
Just curious. Assuming tingle tuner is supported, how would input from the tingle tuner be recorded, since the GBA uses a different emulator? Edit: that, and the emulator that suports connection with dolphin deosn't have rerecording.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 6/15/2012 4:59 AM
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Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Umm, idk? Hasn't happened yet. Doesn't vba support rr?
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/15/2012 10:26 AM
Quote
Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
I don't think it'd change the route any, but Tingle Tuner also allows DRC Boss Key skip without leaf (clip the left wall with a pot, then buy a Tingle Balloon to hover to the entrance). This would mean DRC could be done before going to Forest Haven, which (might?) be faster if the game locks when doing FW first, though I'm not sure on this. I'm sure Abahbob is aware of this, but it's another use worth mentioning for those who don't know. Also, as mentioned, refilling magic, refilling hearts for more/easier zombie hovers (such as not requiring boomerang for Light Arrow skip). For a TAS, I don't see a use for tingle bombs, since regular bombs are early in the route. A TAS could manipulate Kooloh-Limpah to get the double duration hover, which might save some time in very specific areas (possibly certain rooms in TotG for example). Sadly this is all theoretical. I don't think you'd necessarily have a robust GBA emulator to cover input for Wind Waker--you'd just need the bare bones to provide reliable input. This of course would be a point of some discussion if it was actually on the table, but it isn't, so we can have that debate if/when we get there. In the meantime, I'm still really excited about the Wind Waker TAS, because it looks to be quite amazing without Tingle Tuner anyway.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Posted: 6/15/2012 1:16 PM
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KlydeStorm
Joined: 9/14/2010
Posts: 13
Acheron86 wrote:
I'm sure Abahbob is aware of this, but it's another use worth mentioning for those who don't know. Also, as mentioned, refilling magic, refilling hearts for more/easier zombie hovers (such as not requiring boomerang for Light Arrow skip).
Tingle can't be used in any place without a map. You're still stuck with Forest Water if you want to skip the Boomerang and still skip the Light Arrows.
Posted: 6/15/2012 4:40 PM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
jlun2 wrote:
Abahbob wrote:
Faster in several places. A big one now is entering dri. Without tuner, you need to get the messenger bag and watch the whole intro inside the room. It makes zombie hovers suck too. I would say atleast 10 minutes, just for small optimizations as well. Green ting would be nice too.
Just curious. Assuming tingle tuner is supported, how would input from the tingle tuner be recorded, since the GBA uses a different emulator? Edit: that, and the emulator that suports connection with dolphin deosn't have rerecording.
I don't think you would have to record anything on the GBA side. You would just have to have the GBA input in the dtm. Ofcourse the game still has to think that there is a GBA on the other side that is talking to it and that might become a little tricky. But you could probably make a special version of dolphin that fakes that. Still you would have to know what the commands the GBA sends exactly are... I hope somebody somehow makes that work. That would make this TAS a lot more fun. I also think that skipping forest water is probably faster now and it makes the run less complicated, so yay.
Posted: 6/15/2012 6:06 PM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2329)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
This would mean DRC could be done before going to Forest Haven
No, you lose a ton of time when doing DRC without the Deku leaf. But you could do FH,DRC,FW. --- Please do note that Zombie hovers that can be ended without tuner will refill only 1 heart whereas those ended with the tuner will give you all your hearts back, meaning you lose time since you have to take more damage for the next ZH (unless there's a save/deathwarp anyway?) ---
A TAS could manipulate Kooloh-Limpah to get the double duration hover, which might save some time in very specific areas (possibly certain rooms in TotG for example).
Tingle bombs are pretty useless - I heard they can't break the wall behind Outset, can't hit Cyclos, can't break rocks, etc... Double magic isn't required anymore, you can do Trials skip and Earth temple BK skip with just the normal meter. In Totg you can just refill from the pots every now and then - I even TASed that dungeon... ---
Tingle can't be used in any place without a map. You're still stuck with Forest Water if you want to skip the Boomerang and still skip the Light Arrows.
Because you have so much extra time to spare before forest water is ready for FW BK skip, and because it saves only 2 or 3 minutes, we are likely going to not use it. Therefore we will collect the boomerang and the boss key normally and therefore we can use LA skip with the boomerang.
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Posted: 6/15/2012 6:27 PM
(Edited: 6/20/2012 11:39 PM)
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
About superswim drowning. The behavior is very erratic. The goal of superswim drowning is to superswim and drown so that the boat spawns by you. This is useful for digging up triforce pieces, and for getting the chart at needle rock isle. - Before you get the boat, drowning will always put you in the quadrant you drowned in (not useful, no boat) - After you get the boat (after FF1), before (FW or Jabun ?), it seems to pick the place in the story you departed from, either Windfall, DRI, or Forest Haven - After (FW or Jabun ?), it will sometimes pick an island you superswam very near to. Some islands don't seem to apply. Entering and leaving an island building/dungeon is always an option If you're off path before forbidden woods, getting on the boat will take over a minute to drag you back on path. After you complete forbidden woods (or maybe forbidden woods and DRI?), you are free to sail the boat wherever. We cannot afford to go to the ghost ship until after the boat frees us to sail or else we will be dragged. To Do: Find allowable boat spawn points near each triforce piece and the one triforce chart. About Day/Night: From very rough tests on the overworld, I got these mostly consistent numbers. - Nighttime lasts like 4:07 or 247 seconds (probably 4 minutes/240 seconds) - Daytime lasts like 5:56 or 356 seconds (probably 6 minutes/360 seconds) Total: 10:03, probably 10 minutes Say there are 24 hours in 10 minutes. This means 1 hour elapses in 25 seconds or 1500 frames (60fps). 14 hours would elapse in 350 seconds or 21000 frames. 10 hours would elapse in 250 seconds or 15000 frames. This has not been confirmed 100%, but it seems likely how it works. I don't think time passes at all in dungeons, houses, or in places like windfall, DRI, Outset, (that have their own music) - Night increment 1 (endless night) occurs on Greatfish (Ghost ship at Crescent Moon Isle) (Song of passing is the only thing that will change this) Endless night lasts until about 4 ? minutes of game time after Jabun. I believe it is always daytime after completing Tower of the Gods - Night increment 2 should occur once you go into the FF2 quadrant - Night increment 3 should occur the instant you open the door and enter FF2 after beating phantom ganon. EDIT: This may be dependent on the time of night? The behavior is weird. If we skip the skull hammer, I don't know if the night will increment or not. - It should be set to daytime again after Earth Temple. - Night increment 3 should occur upon entering or exiting Wind Temple? Wind Temple would make much more sense. It could possibly increment again after earth temple or wind temple, depending on how much we accomplish. EDIT NEW: I think Cosmo's run works as follows. Greatfish default you to crescent moon, going to FF2 quadrant advances it to Diamond Steppe. The door in FF2 increments you to Bomb Island, Wind Temple does not increment it, then in Cosmo's run he waits one more day/night cycle to get it to spectacle Ghost Ship: Night 1: (Crescent Moon Isle) Greatfish, After Jabun for ~4 minutes Night 2: (Diamond Steppe Isle) short lived Night 3: (Bomb Island) After we open the door in FF2 (which may or may not occur in the TAS) Night 4: (Spectacle Island) If we do extraneous stuff after earth or wind temple. The time does not seem to accumulate, as it seems to reset after each temple.
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Posted: 6/15/2012 7:21 PM
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Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Let's not get into tuner. It's not working, and probably will never work correctly. Let's stick to current TAS things. I say screw forest water, but we need to realize that skipping anything and doing things out of order will always have many complications.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/15/2012 7:27 PM
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Has it been determined yet if getting Ballad of Gales is really slower? Long distance super swims take quite some time to set up. The ballad could get you way closer to where you need to go. Ofcourse it takes time to get and also takes time when you play it. But has it really been fully considered?
Posted: 6/15/2012 8:25 PM
Quote
Abahbob
Player (34)
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
We can't quite judge that yet because we don't have a route. The useful thing would be to be able to get KoRL around for shard collecting. But it takes some time to get and using it takes around the same time as a superswim. And even then, most of the warps don't go to the correct island, so you would still need to superswim some way. It is still within the realm of possibility, but I don't thing so.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Seems legit.
Posted: 6/15/2012 9:13 PM
Quote
Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I was planning on having it reconsidered before the next route update. I thought I knew how superswim drowning worked when I made the original route, but I was a bit wrong, so it needs considering again. I'm leaning towards no as well though. Ballad of Gales takes about 30 seconds to play and warp. Superswimming entirely across the map takes probably around 40-45 seconds if executed optimally. Acquiring Ballad of Gales take about 1 minute 30 seconds.
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Posted: 6/15/2012 9:54 PM
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Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
When I suggested DRC might be faster on first visit than a trip to Forest Haven I had only considered the cost of time from making two visits to that area (and this is assuming FW isn't doable first, which we still need to confirm but probably isn't an issue). While it's hard to see how Deku Leaf saves enough time to justify two trips to FH if we can do boss key skip with Tingle Tuner, you know more than I. At any rate, I agree with Abahbob that this is probably pointless conjecture. We'll be lucky to ever have Tingle Tuner emulated, so let's focus on what we know can be done.
Kirkq wrote:
Ballad of Gales takes about 30 seconds to play and warp. Superswimming entirely across the map takes probably around 40-45 seconds if executed optimally. Acquiring Ballad of Gales take about 1 minute 30 seconds.
Taking into account your earlier post on the time spent for superswimming:
Travel 1 grid square: 16 seconds ~600 speed Travel 2 grid squares: 20 seconds ~800 speed Travel 3 grid squares: 24 seconds ~1000 speed Travel 4 grid squares: 27 seconds ~1200 speed (You can probably barely do this without re-airing, so no speed loss due to suboptimal turning. No considerations need made for an airing island.) Travel 5 grid squares: 32 seconds ~1400 speed (requires re-air) Travel 6 grid squares: 35 seconds ~1500 speed Travel 7 grid squares: 38 seconds ~1600 speed
Any time Ballad did not take you to the exact destination needed, you would be looking at extra time spent to then travel to your next destination (unless there is some reason a superswim wasn't the best way to travel, and I can't think of any). For this reason, even a 45 second superswim across the map would beat a Ballad (30 seconds) + a 1-tile superswim (16 seconds). In other words, I can't see any reason Ballad would be used unless it took you DIRECTLY to the island you wanted to visit, and if that island was more than 4 grid squares away from where you already were. For reference, the Ballad can take you to: Windfall Island Southern Fairy Island Forest Haven Tingle Island Greatfish Isle Tower of the Gods Dragon Roost Island Outset Island Mother & Child Isles* Of course the Mother and Child is only useful for getting arrows (you can clip in but not out, last I checked). So that leaves a question of how often you'd need to visit one of the other 8 locations, and when they'd be 4+ islands away (before teleporting). It'd have to be 5-6 visits before Ballad might save time, I think. Given you don't have the bow (and thus cannot get Ballad) before TotG, I don't see that happening, but the route isn't in stone yet of course. Also keep in mind that some teleports from Ballad might still not be that useful, depending on why you visit an island; if for example your goal was to enter Forest Haven, unloading it and clipping in from below is probably quicker than teleporting and climbing up/ledge diving and entering (haven't tested this but seems probable). All in all, I don't see Ballad saving time, but some testing has to be done first. A couple questions worth answering that can help: -If you superswim into a cyclone, does the game put Link on the boat? (if not, to get Ballad you'd have to ride KoRL into a cyclone, which would cost some time) -Is it possible to manipulate the random teleporting from cyclones? (seems likely and might be faster than actually getting Ballad) I apologize for only asking and not testing. My Windows partition needs to be updated before I can run it, so I'm Mac-only for now.
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Posted: 6/15/2012 11:51 PM
Quote
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
I apologize for only asking and not testing. My Windows partition needs to be updated before I can run it, so I'm Mac-only for now.
You can run dolphin on mac.
Posted: 6/16/2012 12:53 AM
(Edited: 6/16/2012 12:58 PM)
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I updated day and night in my post on the previous page. Not 100% certainty, but pretty close to accurate. Repeat Info: Deku Leaf is required to get into Dragon Roost Cavern without watching the cutscenes with Medli or something. (EDIT: Unless you zombie hover in and die, which wastes some time.) Deku Leaf is required to drop a bomb out of the zombie hover to the second floor to either get a heart or break open the teleportation pot and die, leaving the teleportation pot open. Deku Leaf is required for BK skip without tingle tuner. Dragon Roost Cavern must be completed before Forbidden Woods in a Forest Water route, or you have not run down enough time. You have to be on the boat to engage the cyclone. (but not to get in the ghost ship) The only ways to bring the boat to you are to do a superswim drown limited as discussed on the previous page, or enter and leave a loading zone. Getting the boat to the cyclone for a random warp is going to almost certainly be worse than getting the boat to where you want to go. The cyclone sends you to 8 different places btw. Mother and Child Isles can be clipped out of now, I've previously updated page 11's old route with many of the new skips such as this one. The new route is being worked on, and has not been substantially updated except for directly obsoleted items.
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Posted: 6/16/2012 5:02 AM
Quote
Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
rog wrote:
You can run dolphin on mac.
What is this strange new age where emulators are cross platform? Well, if I can get it to work, I'll look into this stuff over the weekend. And thanks Kirkq for the quick and thorough update; I've tried to keep up on this game and route but there's a lot I missed.
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:24 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Kirkq wrote:
Repeat Info: Deku Leaf is required to get into Dragon Roost Cavern without watching the cutscenes with Medli or something.
Well you could zombie hover into DRC. But not being able to drop bombs out of a hover and the missing BK skip are a deal breaker. Ofcourse all that wouldn't be a problem with the tuner... damn emulator restrictions. :D
Posted: 6/16/2012 1:55 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (690)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
Acheron you can clip out of Mother and Child Isles,i think it's a mugg or abahbob YT video
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
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