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Posted: 3/26/2019 4:05 PM
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nymx
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creaothceann wrote:
There's no direct correlation between the number of frames in the movie and the number of rerecordings... unless someone decides to keep track of the number of removed frames.
The only point that I wished to highlight, is that the quality of sniq's movie is extremely high and that re-records certainly show it. I get it that the number can be bogus...but if we have it there, shouldn't we at least control it a bit so that it is not so meaningless to some considerations?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 3/26/2019 4:07 PM
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Memory
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The amount of people intentionally inflating their rerecord count is low enough for it to be a non-issue. Besides even if you remove the ability to manually edit it, you could still increase it by just repeatedly loading savestates without doing anything.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 3/26/2019 4:31 PM
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EZGames69
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I'll be honest, my opinion has changed a bit since making this thread. For one, I find Re-Records to be more of a fun statistic to view for the movies. It's just interesting to see how much time was put into tases, but I do think re-records can be seen as a bit of an oversimplified for the work put into it. Somthing that I have noticed since then is each method of TASing can result in different amounts of rerecords. Like if you use input rolls in FCEUX or Bizhawk, then you are more likely to produce more re-records than if you were to do the traditional tasing method. I find it more amazing that some people can manually reload a state over 100,000 times doing the traditional method, but for input rolls, some of those rerecords may have come from simply adding or removing frames to move inputs up or down. It's never easy to tell where they come from just from looking at the number. So really I dont see it as the only way to tell if a movie is well made, but that it's more of a fun statistic to look at to appreciate the movie more.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Posted: 3/26/2019 4:31 PM
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nymx
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Memory wrote:
you could still increase it by just repeatedly loading savestates without doing anything.
I can imagine that this would become a tiring practice. With the last TAS I submitted, I certainly didn't have that in mind. LOL Although my number wasn't tampered with, it was lower than it should have been...with all the dropped backup files. Perhaps this is the reason I should using branching? Would a project file then hold all the effort?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 3/26/2019 4:34 PM
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nymx
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EZGames69 wrote:
So really I dont see it as the only way to tell if a movie is well made, but that it's more of a fun statistic to look at to appreciate the movie more.
Certainly not. Its just one of the factors to consider. The idea of bots have been mentioned a lot for the cause of high re-records. This is evident when I did the first F-Zero circuit, as I used a series of methods to automate some testing for me. From what I can tell, it paid off. But, for the GB Tetris TAS the re-record count alone says something about a bot being used. Seriously, almost 3 Million??? I'm not that dedicated.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 3/31/2019 2:30 AM
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Wobmiar
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I think the rerecord count should not at all be used to judge the work. We should judge the work, THEN try to find causes, and maybe THEN go check the rerecords to see if it's a possible cause. It's only there to help the autor understand things. It's merely a hint, and should not be at all considered pertinent in the judging. I'll take myself as an example. My first TASes had some rerecords. Then I did another TAS. And it got less rerecords. Why? Because I was getting used to the game, it was flowing better for me, less savestates to do. Do I think my second TAS took less work? No. I'm well aware of my own work. The more I do TASes, the less rerecords I seem to do. I was a bit surprised at first because I was seeing many people judging submissions here and there with the rerecord, even calling statistics like "should have 75% of the movie frames be rerecords" or something like that. I had less rerecords than that, for a 2 hours games. But then, my game has long cinematics everywhere, soo... That's when I realised it was absurd. If I was judged by the rerecords like some do here, I would be automatically rejected. Also funny thing, my last 3 TASes have additionned the rerecords between them even if I start from scratch because I don't really start from scratch ^^ This puts the number way higher than what it actually should be. Well, that's only my opinion. I think it's a mistake to judge movies based on rerecords.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 3:46 AM
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BrunoVisnadi
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I disagree with some of the predominant views on this thread. Assuming the re-record count displayed on the submission is correct, I believe it is a good measure of how much effort was put into creating the run and it says something about its technical quality. Of course, this heavily depends on the game, usage of TAStudio, how the emulator counts re-records, etc. I'm talking about the most common contexts. When I see a SMW submission with a low re-record account I can tell it's not optimal before watching it, and so far I have never been wrong about it. We are talking, roughly, about the amount of times the author edited their submission, and the fact is it's simply impossible to create an optimal movie with a tiny number of editions. Similarly, if the number of editions is huge, it's safe to assume the author was very careful about saving frames and their run is optimal to some extent. I don't think the submission text can make up for the information provided by the re-record count, as I've seen long submissions texts of runs with few re-records that weren't really optimal. Additionally, some excellently optimized TASes can have small submission texts because the author doesn't want to get into too technical details.
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVoUfT49xN9TU-gDMHv57sw Projects: SMW 96 exit. SDW any%, with Amaraticando. SMA2 SMW small only Kaizo Mario World 3
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