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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
I thought it was great. It's amazing how much you have to have memorized. I'm sure most people who watch won't even realize the amount of money, bomb, and key management. - Yeah, it's mainly about bomb management after you have all your items. You will also notice - I screwed up on Manhandla. Had I not, I would have had 8 bombs...and would have been in excellent condtion. This run proves to me I can get bombs fairly easily if I kill enemies at certain "drop" spots along routes - just for back up purposes. You had many unneeded item changes. Reducing those could probably save some time. Also, setting the bomb further from the wall. - I had some mess ups, and yes, some aren't necessary, but since I just knew I can do this run easily, I did what I had to. Think of this run as the same as a newbie playing - Whereas I had to change items a bunch, they have to get the Red Ring and potion to survive. Not necessary, but they gaurantee success (almost). I had this idea that touching the triforce piece with many hearts missing was a bad thing because it takes longer to refill. From what I observed in your video, however, the time doesn't change. There's a little song that needs to play, and the hearts are filled before that song is over. I think after you defeated the Manhandla you got a fairy thinking it would save time, but it doesn't. - Partially true. Time how long it takes for Link to appear outside with hearts filled, then with only 1 half heart (and losts of HCs, though). It's a second or two difference usually. I believe you once told me that you only use bombs in Level 6. In this video, it was quite the contrary. You also didn't use many bombs on the blue darknuts. Why is this? In one fight with the blue darknuts, you switched from bombs to the boomerang, which I thought was silly. Keep the bombs, just in case you get lucky and they all get close together. - Again, this was a safety run. No serious gambles of any sort. In a record run, I would use bombs on: Vires in Level 4, Blue Darknuts in Level 5, No need on Wizzrobes in 6 as fighting with sword is fast and not worth the possibility of no replenishment, and Level 9. And you did get the boomerang. I see why... Freezing baddies and walking through them. Do you think this is a necessary time saver though? You probably lose more time switching to it than you save by having it. - You don't need it. You can just "stab" enemies with your sword and run through them. You killed a poor keese in level 9 with a diagonal boomerang throw. How heartless of you you cruel sick bastard. He wasn't even near the stairs. HE WASN'T EVEN NEAR THE STAIRS. - Instinct...I had precog he would come after me. After you purchased everything that was necessary, it still seemed that you went out of your way to collect rupee drops. Is that just a bad habit, or did you have a reason. I saw that you used the arrows more than required, but not enough to warrant that kind of rupee collection. I think you had like 7 rupees after you bought the bait, which is more than enough to complete the game. When you beat the game though, you had forty-some rupees. Also, you spent a lot of time walking across the screen to get a heart and walk back. I understand the necessity for hearts in getting the third sword, but after that, they're only for convenience. You had several remaining hearts when you finished. Is life a worry for you, particularly in dealing with the final patras and Ganon? - The rupee thing...I want at least 30 rupees for Level 9 in terms of arrows. I think I might try just beating the red moldorms with the lazer shot technique (double hit trick). If that's so, I need 8 shots for the final room before the last Patra, but it's not so easy to hit everything on first shot, so I'd prefer 15. As for the hearts - it's mainly for Patras and Ganon. I mean, now that I am back in the habbit of Ganon's pattern, I think I can beat him without getting hit now. But Patras are unstable and random. They take off 2 hearts per hit, and it is quick. Lastly, Ganon. You were the one who told me about the techique to kill Ganon quickly for the emulator run. When I played through Zelda 1 a few days ago, I noticed it didn't work for me. So I wanted to see your video to see how you do it. And you didn't do it. Is it hard to pull off, or what? - The potion trick. Yeah, that's banned around the books, so if you do get it to work, it will be scorned at. But I'll try to make a video of doing it again so you can see it. I like your route choice. I liked this video. There was a certain thrill of watching a real video as opposed to the emulated one. For me, the planning that went into our 27 minute video was the real accomplishment. But in a real video, I get to see your fighting techniques, and split second decisions. And it made me feel that maybe I could play the game. - Well, the last alternation is the 50 rupee gamble, and making Level 2 after 5, and putting item collection spots in closer proxomity to levels. That should save at least 1 minute. Couple that with risking better tactics, and I think I at least will savea nother minute. That will put me below 34 mins. Now if I have a super run, I could get low 33.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I think I might try just beating the red moldorms with the lazer shot technique (double hit trick). What's the lazer shot technique? Is that when you stab one moldorm and the beam hits the other moldorm? - The potion trick. Yeah, that's banned around the books, so if you do get it to work, it will be scorned at. But I'll try to make a video of doing it again so you can see it. What's the potion trick and why would it be banned? I thought the fastest way to kill Ganon is to just keep hitting him at the exact moment that he disappears, and he won't move at all so you can just stay in the same spot. If that's what you're talking about, it seems kind of silly to ban that. If you're talking about something else, then I don't know how a potion could possibly help you kill Ganon faster, so I wouldn't mind if you explained what the potion trick is.
TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
I for the life of me could not defeat Ganon in the way you guys did in the Emulator...I still thought my fight was fast, but not perfect.
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
I believe you have only one frame with which to hit Gannon before he dematerializes. I seriously doubt it can be done by a human except by virtue of sheer, unadulterated luck, which is not the best recipe for consistency.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
No, I'm pretty sure you have more than 1 frame. I think if you wait a little too long he'll just start moving, so the next time you hit him he won't be in exactly the same place.
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
xebra wrote:
I believe you have only one frame with which to hit Gannon before he dematerializes. I seriously doubt it can be done by a human except by virtue of sheer, unadulterated luck, which is not the best recipe for consistency.
Haha, watch Korean Tekken players sometime. =P I think it's humanly possible to do consistently, just incredibly, incredibly difficult... -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 248
Location: West 81st Street
I've searched for these Korean Tekken movies, but I couldn't find any. Do you have a link?
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Nightcom wrote:
I've searched for these Korean Tekken movies, but I couldn't find any. Do you have a link?
Truthfully, I don't know where to find videos. I've just seen their national Tekken Tag champion play in person...really quite an experience. Basically, I was trying to make a point that there are people who can execute inputs with a 1- or 2-frame window consistently. -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Post subject: fighting game videos
Joined: 4/11/2004
Posts: 155
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Nightcom wrote:
I've searched for these Korean Tekken movies, but I couldn't find any. Do you have a link?
I can't help specifically with Korean Tekken vids, but here are the links where I get most of my comptetitive fighting game footage: http://www.video-opera.com/ http://www.geocities.com/goforbrokehub/news.htm http://www.a-cho.com/ http://homepage.mac.com/mrjamie/ If you have DC++, you can also find a lot of stuff by connecting to the GoForBroke hub (you can find it in the second link).
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
I'm currently working on an improved version. If you have seen some errors in the current video, it's time to let me know. After 1:36 of gameplay, I am 160 frames faster than Sleepz. Or Sleepzteam should I call.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Whoa, awesome. This just climbed to the top of the list of movies that I anticipate the most. Are you simply planning to optimize the fights further, or do you have some new information or something?
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Since I don't know that game very much, never done that game before :( , I will use his main route. However, I will control randomness better than him.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
He didn't pick the middle rupee in the gambling every time. Possibly, but I'm not sure, he didn't switch weapons in advance at some point when he brought up the save and restart menu, forcing him to bring up the menu again later. That's all I remember.
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Truncated wrote:
He didn't pick the middle rupee in the gambling every time.
Something I have seen but thx anyway.
Truncated wrote:
Possibly, but I'm not sure, he didn't switch weapons in advance at some point when he brought up the save and restart menu, forcing him to bring up the menu again later.
Good idea, I will check for that.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
be sure to check out TSA's suggestions for improving the current run (it's somewhere in this thread). It's been awhile, but I think slight improvements have been made to the route in the video so it is no longer the fastest possible route. I'll let Michael Fried or Sleepz elaborate on that.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
It's been awhile since we discussed LoZ so I don't remember everything too well, but if I remember correctly, the two main places where time can be saved are from getting a key from one of the 5 gibdo rooms in level 5 (it might be faster to do the key glitch in level 1 instead, so you'll need to compare how much extra time each one takes) rather than taking a detour in level 7, and switching items as you do up+A rather than switching later when it wastes time. Also, I'd have to watch the video again to make sure, but I think he might have not taken the fastest route to level 8. Instead of going along the south shore, it's a small fraction of a second faster to go right, up, and then right a few times to the rupee cave. You should also avoid walking extra half Link lengths, which Sleepz sometimes did on rare occasions. Also, as Deviance already suggested, read TSA's comments.
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
This thread is so long and there's some another thread for that game. I don't want to search. Can someone report all can be improved? Or maybe I should create a new thread. I don't know that key glitch at level 1. Explain.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
here it is:
TSA wrote:
Level 3 - left 1, up 2, left 2 - Red Darknuts: You could have done that faster. Cost you one more bomb overall, but it could have been done faster. You skip the HC...in 4...hmm...I also thought your sword swinging was slow at the start...but it could pretty fast for the last 2/3 of thebattle. Getting the key up 4 in Level 1 - You could have use getting "hit" to bounce "up" and move faster. Why did you shoot the Blue Lynel before the white sword? The hit would have moved you faster... I get why you don't get the HC...cuz you're worried about refill time? But in Level 5 - You got the fairy AND the HC was right there. Less than 1 second...it was neglible. I didn't get that. In Level 8 - to me it seemd you used that last bomb on the first Blue Darknuts a little late...you could have used it earlier. What was up in the 2nd Blue Darknut room up 2 screens, that fighting looked less than perfect. Wow...on your Level 6 fighting. Why do you AVOID the HC???? You lost time! You don't "pick it up"... Ok - In Level 7 - you get a key that you seriously could have gotten earlier - far easier. Level 3 - One up from the Red Darknut room - is OUT IN THE OPEN! Just touch it, go back. Wasted...a bomb...on a Wallmaster? Ok. Oh yes - before I forget - Whenever you Up+A you can kill two birds with one stone by switching items then, rather than when you re-appear. You got a clock on Level 9 in the Silver Arrow area...why didn't you use a BOMB there...too much time sword fighting. Also, in the room before - you used a bomb and it "hit" the Blue Wizzrobe - Finish it off real quick. Now you wased "damage" on it...
As for the key glitch, it works by entering the first dungeon, then exiting the dungeon, then re-entering the dungeon. By doing this, the locked door in the first room will become unlocked. It's not faster to use the key glitch, so I suggest you avoid it.
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
TSA wrote:
Level 3 - One up from the Red Darknut room - is OUT IN THE OPEN! Just touch it, go back.
Is there some other place to obtain a key? I have already done that room and wasn't so easy. I made 1 second faster than Sleepz in that room and I have some doubt I could do it faster. Probably slower.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Is there some other place to obtain a key? Don't take any detours to get any keys. I think the fastest one to get is in one of the 5 gibdos room in level 5. It should only take a few seconds to finish them all off. Here's the page where I recorded how long various things take. Apparently I forgot to time the key glitch, but I think it takes about 6 seconds, so you should try timing yourself to see how fast you can kill the 5 gibdos with the white sword and bombs. Then just subtract the normal amount of time it would take to go through the room without killing the enemies from the amount of time it takes to go through the room and kill the enemies.
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Thx, I sincerely didn't want to redo something that took me some hours to accomplish. It's evident the key glitch is, not that much but indeed faster than taking one of those detours. But destroying those 5 gibdos may be faster if the random is pretty good. To test.
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
?I?t? ?a?p?p?e?a?r?s? ?t?h?a?t? ?d?e?f?e?a?t?i?n?g? ?t?h?o?s?e? ?5? ?g?i?b?d?o?s? ?i?s? ?a?p?p?r?o?x?i?m?a?t?e?l?y? ?3? ?&?a?m?p?;? ?? ?s?e?c?o?n?d?s?.? ?B?e?t?t?e?r? ?t?h?a?n? ?t?h?e? ?3? ?o?t?h?e?r? ?p?o?s?s?i?b?i?l?i?t?i?e?s?.?
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
From beginning to the end of level 3, I am 179 frames faster than the current video. So guys, expect a nice run.
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Hey, someone's doing a Z1 run again? Sweet. There was that 10-second loss because of the key, I remember. I didn't think anyone would redo the whole run just for that. But I think it'll be cool to be able to say "The fastest..." rather than, "The fastest, except for..."
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Ramzi wrote:
Hey, someone's doing a Z1 run again? Sweet. There was that 10-second loss because of the key, I remember. I didn't think anyone would redo the whole run just for that. But I think it'll be cool to be able to say "The fastest..." rather than, "The fastest, except for..."
I must say there's not only this can be improved.
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