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Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Thus the regular TAS is improvable by 5000 points, unless the points change messes with lag or luck behavior.
This is no longer true - The out of bounds glitch has been proven to save time, and thus the dragon isn't killed. Also 10 blocks can't be broken and a mushroom not collected due to this strategy change, accumulating in a 1500 points loss. After 2-3, my WIP has a 220 points lower score but is 122 frames ahead. If you disregard the LCD screen emulation difference, I'm actually 170 frames ahead!
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
MUGG wrote:
If you take the fire flower, it starts decrementing at a later time if you've been small. If you are already big, the counter starts decrementing faster (69 frames faster). If you're already fire Mario, it starts decrementing even faster (additional 64 frames faster).
I should have paid more attention to this. It only takes about 30 frames to get a mushroom and maybe 30~50 frames to get fire flower (<- not tested yet). So I can save many frames by getting mushroom/fireflower in a level and taking the fireflower in the bonus game after each world. This means I need to restart the WIP from scratch and it might take some more weeks/months.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4125)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
That's quite a nice conversation you're having with yourself there, mugg.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 5/19/2010
Posts: 259
Location: California
C-C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER?
Another points improvement: In 1-1, chain the two flies near the end of the level to gain 400+800 instead of 400+400 points.
Huh, guess not.
#3201
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Here is the latest WIP of world 1: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/903150267/8282.vbm (SML v1.0, vba24m) 9980 points gained 7 frames ahead (actually 45 frames ahead disregarding the emulation difference) --- EDIT: Halfway done with world 2. If you shoot during a fast fall, you don't lose any speed which means maybe some more points can be saved. I hope it doesn't mess with my planning too much. EDIT: Here my planning would have almost worked out, but I'm behind by one frame. Small Mario can get into the goal one frame sooner than Big Mario even though they are on the same pace, which means there's weird hitbox stuff going on..... I'm confused as to how my 2-1 and 2-2 planning goes. I can invest 3 frames for points farming but I'm somehow losing a frame somewhere... EDIT: For no apparent reason my luck manipulation for 2-3's bonus game got thrown off and this leaves me stranded with a world 2 TAS that I worked on forever and is now going to waste. This is probably because I lost a frame somewhere in 2-1 and I can't see how...
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I'm about to finish up world 3 and world 4 should be a cake walk because there's no RNG to mess with. TAS should be completed soon.
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Neato. I look forward to learning how the screen-wrap glitch works.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
This is awesome! Does the wrap save time on the cloud thing at the end or is that just to show off?
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
That's only for showing off.
Joined: 1/3/2012
Posts: 12
Hi, I had see your movie with the in put. You had puch to A and B at the same times ! When i try it, mario don't move! My question: How is it possible :p The mario's speed 's ram is it 0000FF80 ? When you puch A + B near a platform, your speed incrase to 19 ! When I jump my speed is 17 ... :'( How is it possible :D Thx for your anwers :D
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I didn't use any memory addresses when creating my TAS. FF80 is not Mario's speed address. c20c / e20c seem to tell how long Mario moves when you let go of the d-pad. c20d / e20d seems to tell Mario which direction to go. c20e / e20e seems to tell Mario if to run (4) or walk (less than 4). (?) c20f / e20f = ? The A + B trick only works every other frame, so if you lose speed doing it on one frame, try to do it 1 frame before or 1 frame later. (C20E and C20F may not become 02 and 01 respectively at the same time) Also, never let go of "right", only let go of "B" for one frame. (C20E may not become zero)
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I'm working on a version difference video for Youtube. If anyone knows about version differences (between v1.0 and v1.1) other than the ones listed below, now would be the time to tell me. Thank you. * death sound * level finish sound * first bass in 1-1 BGM * first bass in 1-3 BGM * bass in autoscroller BGM * get pushed offscreen glitch on autoscrollers
Experienced player (588)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
If someone needs, here's a Rip of the first level, it could help. If someone wants other tell me :p http://lightpics.fr/images/2013/10/13/ZMto0.png
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Masterjun
He/Him
Site Developer, Skilled player (1988)
Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 1185
Location: Germany
Rips are on vgmaps. Also, your picture is kind of destroying the layout of this page so please use [url][/url].
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Experienced player (588)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
Oh, sorry then :/
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Masterjun wrote:
Rips are on vgmaps.
I notice that a bunch of the invisible blocks are missing from those maps.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I'm gaining interest to come back and do Hard mode again. But I'm not gonna do it without a script that tells the bonus game each frame this time. I think addresses FF04 and FF05 are responsible for it. They seem to increment at the same rate each frame, one seems responsible for Mario's positioning and the other for the item order. Ladder seems to always appear at the top (?). This is so far just guessing and not confirmed. Unfortunately I have already researched and tested a lot but I can't figure it out. If someone helps me I may be able to return to this game earlier. ------ EDIT: In VBA24m, I think the game uses FF04 and FF05 one frame before white screen (into the bonus game) to determine the item placement. However, Mario's positioning is not determined in that same frame. It's determined a frame later and it doesn't use FF04/FF05. FFB3 (game mode) may be an indicator. When entering a bonus game, that address turns 12, then 13, then 14, then 15. Maybe it performs different calculations within those modes.
GoddessMaria
She/Her
Reviewer, Experienced player (867)
Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 518
Location: Hell...
That's great to hear that Hard Mode will be done again. Is there anything particular that Normal Mode needs to be improved on? If so, I'd like to know in case I decide to take it on.
Current projects: failing at life
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
GoddessMaria15 wrote:
That's great to hear that Hard Mode will be done again. Is there anything particular that Normal Mode needs to be improved on? If so, I'd like to know in case I decide to take it on.
There is strange behavior where if you collect different amounts of coins/points, then different amount of lag may occur. So you can save 1~3 frames like this, maybe.
Hard mode TAS comments wrote:
Possible improvements? I can get one more coin in 1-1, at frame 350. However, this results in one more lag frame in 4-2 so it's actually slower. If I get the coin in 1-1 and miss one purposefully in 4-1, the result is the same as when I miss it in 1-1 (the TAS syncs until the end). It seems like the number of coins has an effect on the lag in that instance in 4-2. Maybe future movies will be improved by missing certain coins in certain levels or keeping the number of coins low...
Otherwise I don't think it's improvable. Also:
Normal mode TAS comments wrote:
Possible improvements? There might be a faster way to get the good luck for 1-3's bonus game. If there isn't, than I'm almost confident that this movie is "maxed out" , i.e. not improvable.
Also: If you play this game in Bizhawk and it turns out to have different timing, the whole bonus game thing will be different. ---- Tldr: The Normal Mode run can't be improved unless you find new improvements.
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Is Bizhawk more accurate in emulating this game or is it exactly the same? Because if it actually was more accurate, a new TAS should be made.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
GoddessMaria
She/Her
Reviewer, Experienced player (867)
Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 518
Location: Hell...
Ah. Fair enough. So aside from possible coin management and good 1-3 bonus, not much there.
Current projects: failing at life
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I'm fairly certain now that addresses FF04 and FF05 are related to the bonus game item order. There can be only four different possible orders, and the two aforementioned addresses are like RNG (changing each frame). Here is a list. The two values before the "=" denote FF04 and FF05, and the value after the "=" is the item order that happened. 12F3 = 1, <-- on the left side is the item order, in this case 1up 2up flower 3up. 2F31 = 2, 312F = 3, F312 = 4.
1 243 = 3
2 244 = 3
5 247 = 4
9 123 = 3
13 127 = 3
14 0 = 3
14 128 = 1
16 130 = 4
20 6 = 3
20 134 = 4
21 135 = 3
22 136 = 2
26 12 = 1
27 141 = 4
28 13 = 4
29 15 = 1
29 143 = 1
31 145 = 2
32 146 = 3
34 148 = 1
36 150 = 4
42 156 = 2
44 30 = 3
44 158 = 4
49 35 = 1
51 37 = 4
55 169 = 4
56 170 = 4
60 46 = 4
60 174 = 3
63 49   = 2
63 177 = 2
64 178 = 4
66 180 = 1
67 181 = 4
68 54 = 4
69 183 = 3
71 57 = 2
72 58 = 4
74 60 = 1
74 188 = 1
75 189 = 4
76 62 = 4
77 191 = 3
79 193 = 2
80 194 = 3
82 196 = 1
84 70 = 4
87 201 = 2
89 203 = 3
91 77 = 2
96 82 = 4
98 84 = 1
102 216 = 1
104 90 = 4
106 220 = 1
107 93 = 2
107 221 = 2
109 95   = 1
109 223 = 3
110 224 = 1
112 226 = 3
114 100 = 1
114 228 = 1
115 229 = 1
117 103 = 1
119 105 = 2
120 106 = 3
120 234 = 2
122 108 = 1
122 236 = 3
124 238 = 2
125 239 = 4
127 241 = 1
128 242 = 2
130 116 = 2
135 249 = 1
137 123 = 1
138 252 = 3
142 128 = 2
144 130 = 4
146 132 = 1
148 6 = 3
150 136 = 2
152 10 = 3
153 139 = 3
155 13 = 3
156 14 = 3
156 142 = 4
157 143 = 3
159 17 = 2
160 18 = 3
160 146 = 3
164 150 = 4
165 151 = 3
167 153 = 2
168 154 = 3
172 30 = 4
176 34 = 4
177 35 = 3
177 163 = 3
179 37 = 4
181 39 = 3
184 42 = 4
184 170 = 4
185 43 = 1
189 175 = 3
190 48 = 2
191 176 = 2
192 50 = 3
192 178 = 3
196 54 = 4
197 183 = 3
199 57 = 2
200 186 = 4
202 188 = 1
203 61 = 4
203 189 = 4
205 63 = 1
207 65 = 2
207 193 = 2
210 196 = 2
212 198 = 4
213 199 = 1
215 201 = 2
218 76 = 2
219 77 = 2
223 81 = 4
223 209 = 4
226 84 = 1
229 87 = 3
230 88 = 2
230 216 = 1
231 89 = 2
232 90 = 4
235 221 = 4
237 95 = 3
237 223 = 3
239 97 = 2
239 225 = 2
240 98 = 4
242 100 = 1
243 229 = 1
245 103 = 1
248 234 = 2
250 108 = 1
250 236 = 3
252 110 = 4
253 111 = 3
253 239 = 4
I reduced this list to show combinations where either the left or the right value stayed the same. With this, maybe we can figure out the algorithm behind this.
14 0 = 3
14 128 = 1

20 6 = 3
20 134 = 4

29 15 = 1
29 143 = 1

44 30 = 3
44 158 = 4

60 46 = 4
60 174 = 3

63 49   = 2
63 177 = 2

107 93 = 2
107 221 = 2

109 95   = 1
109 223 = 3

114 100 = 1
114 228 = 1

120 106 = 3
120 234 = 2

122 108 = 1
122 236 = 3

156 14 = 3
156 142 = 4

160 18 = 3
160 146 = 3

177 35 = 3
177 163 = 3

184 42 = 4
184 170 = 4

192 50 = 3
192 178 = 3

203 61 = 4
203 189 = 4

207 65 = 2
207 193 = 2

223 81 = 4
223 209 = 4

230 88 = 2
230 216 = 1

237 95 = 3
237 223 = 3

239 97 = 2
239 225 = 2

250 108 = 1
250 236 = 3

253 111 = 3
253 239 = 4

9 123 = 3
137 123 = 1

14 128 = 1
142 128 = 2

16 130 = 4
144 130 = 4

20 6 = 3
148 6 = 3

22 136 = 2
150 136 = 2

28 13 = 4
155 13 = 3

29 143 = 1
157 143 = 3

160 146 = 3
32 146 = 3

36 150 = 4
164 150 = 4

44 30 = 3
172 30 = 4

49 35 = 1
177 35 = 3

51 37 = 4
179 37 = 4

56 170 = 4
184 170 = 4

64 178 = 4
192 178 = 3

68 54 = 4
196 54 = 4

69 183 = 3
197 183 = 3

71 57 = 2
199 57 = 2

74 188 = 1
202 188 = 1

75 189 = 4
203 189 = 4

79 193 = 2
207 193 = 2

82 196 = 1
210 196 = 2

87 201 = 2
215 201 = 2

102 216 = 1
230 216 = 1

107 221 = 2
235 221 = 4

109 223 = 3
237 223 = 3

115 229 = 1
243 229 = 1

120 234 = 2
248 234 = 2

122 236 = 3
250 236 = 3

125 239 = 4
253 239 = 4
But we haven't been successful so far. One other approach was to go through ROM and see what the game actually does. I tried searching "04 FF" and "05 FF" because I assumed those addresses might be spelled out in ROM, and they do appear once respectively. Value of FF04 is saved to register A, but 05 FF is being read as code instead of an address. Neither of these are being executed during the frame where the bonus game order is supposed to be determined though. Maybe if someone who understands disassembly language better helps, we could figure out the algorithm. Thanks to rectangulartim
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Still didn't figure out algorithm for $ff04 and $ff05 but decided to go on. Since I can choose to start the TAS whenever the RNG is favorable, I wait at the The End screen. DF means delay frames at the The End screen. EDIT: Looks like I used inferior 1-3 strats, so all testing I did based on it was meaningless. Going to do new testing with better 1-3 strat later.
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I found strange behavior at the 1-3 boss. Compare: - Running onto the pedestal, waiting. Bonusgame starts at framecount xxx33 - Same as above but paused and unpaused (2 delay frames) Bonusgame starts at xxx35 as expected - Same as the first but paused and unpaused (3 delay frames) Bonusgame starts at xxx25 (?!?) This needs some looking into. Looks like it's tied to the movement of the fake-princess monster. I don't think I considered this when I worked on normal mode so another second or so might be possible to squeeze out of that 12:08 run.
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