I might just be doing something stupidly wrong and not even realizing it, but I'm a tad bit confused at the moment.
So yesterday I started routing the mushrooms (
On Google Sheets) (I also put the boss route on there so you can check that out too). Your two WIPs (
before and
after the skip in Hoohoo Mountain was discovered) also does not do the mushroom route that can be seen in
your route notes you posted a while back, even though that was posted after the WIPs.
When I reached sewers (ID 16 on the sheets to be specific), I remembered you had posted about a 50something frame detour in sewers. After doing my tests, I came up with a 41 detour, but you said 55 frame detour. I didn't understand why it was different, though I figured that I'm comparing to the wrong spot.
I checked after the puzzle and I had come up with a 111 frame detour total, but you had a 130 frame detour. This time I'm sure that I'm comparing to the same mushrooms. I get a mushroom per 55.5 frames here, you get 65 frames. I did notice that your mushroom grabbing was more optimal than mine. I tried to copy your input (because I didn't understand why I wasn't able to do what you did, though I found where my fault was) and only saved a frame, so that becomes a 110 frame detour or 55f/mush for me.
It is still 10 frames faster than your detour though. I don't understand whatsoever how you could be
TWENTY whole frames faster than my attempt without grabbing the mushrooms.
What I have been doing is this (though you should be able to tell from my sheets):
FIRST, I TAS a room without collecting any mushrooms. I reach a specific point in which both collecting and not collecting would be the same (usually the first frame of fading out when I leave the room). I put in the details that I need to put in in the sheets (room group ID (for organization purposes), room ID, how many frames it takes to get there.
THEN, if there is only one mushroom, I redo the room but I grab the mushroom. I reach that same point. Once I do, I put the necessary details (now also including the delta
(no mushroom MINUS mushroom) and how many mushrooms I got, separating all 4 sorts. If there are multiple, unless there's no point to testing individually, I usually do both individually and together.
The sheets then automatically does the necessary calculations so I can accurately check, keeping in mind ultra mushrooms & max mushrooms output a higher amount of damage than normal & super mushrooms, what is technically the best for each room if I were to grab at least one mushroom.
My main question is: exactly how were you routing mushrooms? I can not grasp why your detours are so different than mine. I couldn't have been 20 frames faster, or even in Koopa Cruiser, 30 frames.
For the record, my plan from here on out is to test the detours for the remaining mushrooms, then play through the entire game whilst not getting any blocks (and removing the mushrooms I get in my inventory from stardust fields fights), and reach Fungitown with the current TAS route. Check how many coins I have & what items I will automatically have, check for how much I can sell them, list down how many mushrooms I need to buy & the detour for those, then start the potentially necessary detours so that I can output a certain amount of mush damage (16 mush damage by the time I reach Hermie III and 20 mush damage for Popple (and 22 for Iggy)).
The final step, how I would check which combination of mushrooms & items is the best to get, I have no idea. I'm not there yet, though.
For reference, here is the .tasproj in which I was testing the mushrooms after the puzzle in sewers (excuse the lazy Discord post)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668480207958704158/671156543173033985/0015_sewers_after_puzzle_room.tasproj
Sorry if this post is a little unorganized/all over the place ^^;
Here I will explain the NPC clip the best I can so others can understand it:
NPC ejection
Ejection to the right:
Be inside the NPC,
have the same X-pos or more, as the NPC,
walk left
Ejection to the left:
Be inside the NPC,
have less than the X-pos as the NPC,
walk right
Most standing NPC don't eject at all.
Walking NPC will eject for 4096 usually (which equals 0x100 in hex).
Very few NPC will eject for more. The Koopa in Koopa Cruiser will eject for up to 5120.
How to get inside an NPC
Jump into the NPC from above or keep switching places until the NPC has walked inside you.
It's very tricky and not feasible to do on real-console.
However, the Koopa in Koopa Cruiser will never change direction, so it is very easy to do the clip even on real-console. You just need to start switching places at the right time, and you need to be positioned from the wall perfectly (this will be explained below).
Wall clipping
To wall clip, you need to be ejected more than 4096 units.
You can only clip rightwards or leftwards so far.
You need to be positioned near the wall perfectly:
Too close, and you will be ejected less than 4096 no matter what.
Too far away, and you will be ejected for 5120(or whatever the maximum the NPC ejects for) and still not be in the wall.
If you are between 4096 and 5120 from the wall, you can be ejected into the wall.
If you are with 2 brothers, the back brother cannot enter the wall as far as I tested.
If you are with 1 brother, you can clip through, however.
For the GIF above:
The 2 brothers are positioned exactly 4096 from each other, if you walk horizontally.
So if you walk away from the wall so the 2 brothers are aligned horizontally, and then walk for 1 additional frame, you will be ~4600 units away from the wall. Since the Koopa ejects for ~4900, the clip happens.
Other "more than 4096" NPCs
There are only very few I found.
These work but they never approach a wall...
- The captain in the Teehee Valley ship
- Walking Yoshi in the Yoshi theatre
- Koopa in the end room of Koopa Cruiser
These work and the wall clip can be done
- Fat lady in the relaxation room
- Oho Jee
Luigi in the beginning of the game is special because he is a scripted NPC who does stuff based on your position and movement. As far as I've seen, he is the only NPC that can eject you vertically when walking into him (Luigi clip).
