SamsaraTF: fun fact
SamsaraTF: http://tasvideos.org/2640M.html this has been published for over a year
SamsaraTF: one single vote
Q: What's the point of this topic?
A: The original point of this topic was to vote on movies that have less then 3 votes so that the little voting thingy wouldn't display "ratings too few to show".
But I sort of realized, that's not enough. I think the best way of preventing this sort of event in the future is to discuss how to fix the way ratings are done.
So, if you have any suggestions on how to improve rating movies, let us know!
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Thank you for the nice idea, arandomgameTASer. As I've said before, I will rate every movie after the rating system requires 1 click instead of 10 clicks. I like rating stuff. I rate albums at allmusic.com, movies at imdb.com and books at goodreads.com, all of which require 1 click only. Rating can be done easily right after finishing the thing and it takes only a second. By the time I've rated 10 TASes at TASVideos I've rated 100 things elsewhere. That's why I don't bother rating TASes.
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
This is a really nice idea. I've been trying to do my part and rate movies that I've seen or voted on to help. Hopefully this will get others on board.
Thank you for the nice idea, arandomgameTASer. As I've said before, I will rate every movie after the rating system requires 1 click instead of 10 clicks. I like rating stuff. I rate albums at allmusic.com, movies at imdb.com and books at goodreads.com, all of which require 1 click only. Rating can be done easily right after finishing the thing and it takes only a second. By the time I've rated 10 TASes at TASVideos I've rated 100 things elsewhere. That's why I don't bother rating TASes.
I would be inclined to agree if TASes were rated on a simple scale of 0 to 5. But they aren't. So I don't see a way to make this easy.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Aqfaq wrote:
Thank you for the nice idea, arandomgameTASer. As I've said before, I will rate every movie after the rating system requires 1 click instead of 10 clicks. I like rating stuff. I rate albums at allmusic.com, movies at imdb.com and books at goodreads.com, all of which require 1 click only. Rating can be done easily right after finishing the thing and it takes only a second. By the time I've rated 10 TASes at TASVideos I've rated 100 things elsewhere. That's why I don't bother rating TASes.
Not too huge a list for 10 clicks either. I'll rate.
EDIT: It doesn't mean you'll like my ratings though. They make clear the reason I don't rate anymore at all.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
All movies are accounted for!
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Thank you for the nice idea, arandomgameTASer. As I've said before, I will rate every movie after the rating system requires 1 click instead of 10 clicks. I like rating stuff. I rate albums at allmusic.com, movies at imdb.com and books at goodreads.com, all of which require 1 click only. Rating can be done easily right after finishing the thing and it takes only a second. By the time I've rated 10 TASes at TASVideos I've rated 100 things elsewhere. That's why I don't bother rating TASes.
I would be inclined to agree if TASes were rated on a simple scale of 0 to 5. But they aren't. So I don't see a way to make this easy.
1. Or just make it so that you don't need to move to another page just to rate a movie.
2. This has been suggested for a while now, but I don't recall it being implemented. I never coded for websites, so I won't know, but what's stopping it from being implemented?
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
I'm still not understanding how "10 clicks" is all that bad, given this is a site of making movies of games frame-by-frame with extreme care (ideally).
Personally, I feel if the person/people took out the time to make a publishable movie then the least I can do is spend the, what, 30-seconds tops outside of watching the TAS to give them some - if ambiguous - feedback. That said, I do think jlun makes a good point in that there's no reason to be brought to a separate page just to bring up a mostly similar page, just with a box at the bottom.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Movie rating in general is really underappreciated, sadly. I get that not everyone has the insane amount of time and dedication required to watch and rate every movie on the site, but I feel like the least people could do is rate movies they watched on the submission queue. Even movies that are getting 40-50 submission votes hardly end up with more than 10 publication ratings...
I suppose the easiest way to simplify it would be to open it to everyone, not just people logged in to the site, but that's so ripe for abuse that I wouldn't dare seriously suggest it. Instead of figuring out how to simplify the voting system, maybe it would be easier to figure out a way to give some incentive for it? Votes are tracked on forum profiles, maybe there could be "Voter" ranks for people who've rated lots of movies?
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Part of the problem is probably that most people watch the movie before it's possible to rate it, because it hasn't been published yet. Modifying the "This movie has been published!" post by TASVideoAgent to have a link to the ratings page could be helpful, so that people who have watched it prior to publishing have an easy (or easier) way to remember to rate it.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
People stopped rating movies a while ago when it was apparent that people took low ratings personally and when it was apparent that some people were giving every movie top marks across the board, possibly in the hopes that others would return the favor on their own publications.
Modifying the "This movie has been published!" post by TASVideoAgent to have a link to the ratings page could be helpful, so that people who have watched it prior to publishing have an easy (or easier) way to remember to rate it.
It's had that for a while now.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Samsara wrote:
...Instead of figuring out how to simplify the voting system, maybe it would be easier to figure out a way to give some incentive for it? Votes are tracked on forum profiles, maybe there could be "Voter" ranks for people who've rated lots of movies?
I like the sound of that idea. I'm not sure how much of a headache that would create in coding it, but perhaps there could be some type of voter ranking displayed either below the avatar, or within the signature (and directly across from earned awards)?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
As I've said before, I will rate every movie after the rating system requires 1 click instead of 10 clicks. I like rating stuff. I rate albums at allmusic.com, movies at imdb.com and books at goodreads.com, all of which require 1 click only. Rating can be done easily right after finishing the thing and it takes only a second. By the time I've rated 10 TASes at TASVideos I've rated 100 things elsewhere. That's why I don't bother rating TASes.
So you first spend anywhere from a couple of minutes to a couple of hours watching a TAS, but then you can't be bothered to spend a few seconds making "10 clicks".
Makes complete sense.
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Zurreco wrote:
People stopped rating movies a while ago when it was apparent that people took low ratings personally...
How do you know this is true? I didn't stop rating because of that. Most people never even start rating movies, because the possibility to rate is hidden. IMDb has a masterful design saying "Your rating: **********" right next to the cover image of the movie even though you are not logged in.
Warp wrote:
So you first spend anywhere from a couple of minutes to a couple of hours watching a TAS, but then you can't be bothered to spend a few seconds making "10 clicks".
Yes, because TASing is fun and watching TASes is fun. So is rating content at IMDb, Goodreads and AllMusic. Rating stuff at TASVideos is not fun. It feels like work. Yes, it makes sense.
So you first spend anywhere from a couple of minutes to a couple of hours watching a TAS, but then you can't be bothered to spend a few seconds making "10 clicks".
Makes complete sense.
It does though. The difference is that watching a movie is an enjoyable process, going through the hoops to rate it isn't.
(EDIT: To elaborate a bit, when you watch a TAS, you know all of its goals and end results beforehand: it's all listed in the submission/publication text. But you're watching it because the process is fun, and it's your fun that you're invested into. Rating, on the other hand, is no-one's fun. You're kinda-sorta doing it for yourself, kinda-sorta for others, but the truth is, neither yourself nor anyone else is really invested into any particular rate. The only reason I'm rating anything at all is because it's less trouble than remembering what TASes I've watched and found entertaining (which is harder than it seems when there are chains of 6+ improvements to a same run category), and which ones seem improvable enough to expect a future version and maybe look into improvements myself. I'm not doing it to do the author(s) or the audience a favor, and I don't expect any of my rates to end up of any use at all.)
With regards to rating interface per se, coming up with an intuitive and good-looking solution isn't exactly hard, it's just that 1) there hasn't been any vocal demand for it as far as I'm aware, and 2) it requires implementation that meets the site's standards, and thus hard-to-find volunteer work.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
As of now, all 43 of the listed movies in the OP should have 3+ ratings! Hooray! Maybe once arandomgameTASer comes back around, the thread can be repurposed into a general discussion on movie ratings?
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Part of the problem is probably that most people watch the movie before it's possible to rate it, because it hasn't been published yet.
100% this. Every time I check Workbench and watch a movie, I finish and want to rate it, but can’t. By the time it’s published, I’ve completely forgotten how I felt about it, and would have to re-watch it to rate appropriately. That’s why I’ve started posting my ratings in the Workbench topics in hopes of remembering to rate once they’re published, but that’s not a good solution.
Make it possible to vote on all runs, and keep the results in a hidden database or whatever and make them public in their proper page once the submission is published. Not allowing votes is straight-up retarded. Edit: Didn’t think there’d need to be some way to vote outside from the published movie page I guess. Cba to think.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Aqfaq wrote:
Zurreco wrote:
People stopped rating movies a while ago when it was apparent that people took low ratings personally...
How do you know this is true? I didn't stop rating because of that. Most people never even start rating movies, because the possibility to rate is hidden. IMDb has a masterful design saying "Your rating: **********" right next to the cover image of the movie even though you are not logged in.
I'm not saying it applies to everyone, but there was a definite heyday for rankings a few years ago that dropped off for the reasons mentioned. The best example I can give was when someone confronted me about a below average entertainment rating I gave for a pretty boring RPG run (I want to say Phantasy Star but I couldn't find the posts so whatever). I was accused of being biased against the genre/console and of having never even played the games, or else I would have appreciated the run. Also, let's not forget the absolute tantrum that Phil threw when Combat Tribes started getting terrible feedback and ratings. IRC was a hot mess about that and Bisqwit had to step in to curtail Phil's attitude.
There was also a guy who would always give 10/10 ratings on all movies coming through. Can't remember the name, but he always ended his posts with something like "tanks for all!" When a few of us pointed this out, we were told that ratings were subjective and, to a point, would be diluted by people doing this. It seems like a lot of people believe that ratings should trend for an average of something like 9 rather than 5, even though the scales are supposed to be indicative of relative value.
Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to look at the movies I have rated, so I can't give better examples. I used to rate every movie that was published but realized that it wasn't worth the hassle of having to defend low ratings for bad movies. Keeping ratings private seems counter-intuitive, although it might be more applicable now that the userbase for this site has expanded so much.
That being said, feel free to keep up rating movies if you want. In the long run, it's too easy to believe that the ratings per movie aren't entirely indicative of how good the runs actually are and that people really aren't voting on them because they're really irrelevant aside from curation.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Zurreco wrote:
Also, let's not forget the absolute tantrum that Phil threw when Combat Tribes started getting terrible feedback and ratings. IRC was a hot mess about that and Bisqwit had to step in to curtail Phil's attitude.
Well, in fairness, he shouldn't have abused his power to accept and publish his own movie in the first place.
I like the idea of having your ratings be private, but it does stem from what you mentioned in the rest of the post about people taking them way too seriously. If I publicized my ratings, I'm sure I'd get a lot of weird looks/bitchy comments.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
I've been thinking, the Tiers are based on the judge's assessment of the poll results, right?How about we tie rating the movie into the selection of the tier, this would eliminate the issue of people losing interest before the run is available to be rated (I'll admit, this is what happened to me with the new Jungle Book run. I was interested in the run during initial voting and forgot about it until it was mentioned in this thread).
I'm just spittballin' here, but then again, I don't want to derail this into a conversation about the poll question/tier system. Lord knows how many hours have been devoted to those subjects.
Also, I'm with ALAKTORN. There's no point in asking a publisher of any kind to publish and distribute your work to a wider audience if you're going to complain about the feedback of said audience - this is true of any creative work, I feel.
Between a system that is prone and vulnerable to abuse and an expert opinion I may disagree with, I'll pick the latter.
Btw, at one point we had the rating system integrated with submission voting, somewhere around 2006. The results weren't exactly what we intended (I don't remember the specifics at this point though), and ultimately it had to be reversed back to the current question. AFAIR the iterations went as follows : "Did you like watching this movie?" -> "Rate this submission"* -> "Should this movie be published?" -> "Did you find this movie entertaining?"
(* Not sure on the exact wording, can't check at this point.)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
