Resident Evil 2 story takes place two months after the events of the first game, Resident Evil. It is set in Raccoon City, an American community whose residents have been transformed into zombies by the T-virus, a biological weapon developed by the pharmaceutical company Umbrella. In their escape from the city, the two protagonists, Leon S. Kennedy and Claire Redfield, encounter other survivors, and are confronted by William Birkin, the mutated creator of the even more powerful G-virus.
Game objectives
Emulator used: Dolphin 4.0-6029
CD ID: GHAE08
Comments
Save file
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Yes/No trick
You can press "Yes" after 14 frames, if you move cursor to "No" (2 frames), then back to "Yes" (2 frames), "Yes" will become usable after 4 frames, totally 8 frames. This isn't working only on computer menu in main hall and when you pick up item
Quick shooting
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When you are using grenade launcher against Birkin's 3rd form, at first aim up, shoot to the head, then do quick shooting glitch, otherwise grenades don't hit Birkin. If quick shoot directly, grenades will hit Birkin's feet, just a waste of ammo (translated with Google >_<)
Noxxa: This movie uses save file data from another submission, which also aims to clear that category ("Leon A") as fast as possible. Due to how the game works, however, doing different actions in the A scenario results in different things happening in the B scenario, which means that for an optimized B run certain actions are required in the A run, such as getting the Cord and using it on the east side of the police station, which the Leon A run doesn't do. As such, this run is suboptimal for this category. A save file/verification movie for the B run should be a separate A run that focuses on being optimized for the B run, and not be a speedrun in itself. Other improvements have also been listed in the submission discussion. Rejecting due to suboptimality.
Regarding categories: since real-time records have separate runs for Leon A, Leon B, Claire A and Claire B, it makes sense to run these individually as TASes as well (with optimized SRAM for the B scenarios). A run that combines an A and B scenario may also be acceptable, but would have to be submitted as a single run and is likely not preferred.
Where do I begin? Let's start with this. Claire B is an unlockable after completing Leon A, which requires save data, helpfully not provided (yet obviously loaded from at the start), so this is already unverifiable at the moment and in violation of the rules.
Actually, let's just stop there until that's addressed.
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Tangent wrote:
Claire B is an unlockable after completing Leon A, which requires save data, helpfully not provided, so this is already unverifiable at the moment and in violation of the rules.
Claire B is an unlockable after completing Leon A, which requires save data, helpfully not provided, so this is already unverifiable at the moment and in violation of the rules.
Yes, that was his master plan all along. Create a very suboptimal TAS for one route in order to set up an optimal TAS for the second. Genius.
Also, I guess I assumed people would know, but probably not, so I should also mention that the B scenarios are directly affected by what you do in the A scenario that creates the save data for them. They're a continuation created from specific save data, not just "have a Leon A clear and you unlock Claire B." Two different Leon A saves will create two different Claire B scenarios.
For example. In Claire A, there's two ways to beat the alligator boss; shoot the hell out of it, or grab a gas canister, toss it in its mouth, and shoot that for an instant kill. If you take the first approach, the alligator is a boss again in Leon B. If you take the second approach, it never appears. Less dramatic, if you collect a machine gun in the A run chronologically before the B run visits that area, it'll no longer be there. If you skip it, it will be.
Enemies, items, etc. All are affected by what's done in the A route that unlocks that B run. This makes the B scenarios completely unsuitable for TASing on their own, and still kind of silly for TASing attached to an A run, although there is a case to be made for a Claire A/Leon B (canon) or Leon A/Claire B run. Absolutely not subdivided like this though.
I would personally love to see either Leon A / Claire B or Claire A / Leon B runs instead of these standalone ones as Tangent pointed out (I didn't think about this sadly in my comment made on the previous video). As that way we would have only 2 videos for the campaign instead of 4 (which is likely to happen before long if one of these gets published then the rest will follow from one source or another) It would cut down on clutter in the movie list for sure. Since we also need to take into account there could be an eventual "Hunk" and maybe "Tofu" video, maybe even the inferior version of RE3's Mercenaries mode they had. So we are looking anywhere up to 7 videos of Resident Evil 2 all combined without splicing together the scenarios into single videos.
Would it be preferably to splice together this submission and the previous submission into one? / Resubmit them together?
Tangent wrote:
Spikestuff wrote:
Tangent wrote:
Claire B is an unlockable after completing Leon A, which requires save data, helpfully not provided, so this is already unverifiable at the moment and in violation of the rules.
Yes, that was his master plan all along. Create a very suboptimal TAS for one route in order to set up an optimal TAS for the second. Genius.
Also, I guess I assumed people would know, but probably not, so I should also mention that the B scenarios are directly affected by what you do in the A scenario that creates the save data for them. They're a continuation created from specific save data, not just "have a Leon A clear and you unlock Claire B." Two different Leon A saves will create two different Claire B scenarios.
For example. In Claire A, there's two ways to beat the alligator boss; shoot the hell out of it, or grab a gas canister, toss it in its mouth, and shoot that for an instant kill. If you take the first approach, the alligator is a boss again in Leon B. If you take the second approach, it never appears. Less dramatic, if you collect a machine gun in the A run chronologically before the B run visits that area, it'll no longer be there. If you skip it, it will be.
Enemies, items, etc. All are affected by what's done in the A route that unlocks that B run. This makes the B scenarios completely unsuitable for TASing on their own, and still kind of silly for TASing attached to an A run, although there is a case to be made for a Claire A/Leon B (canon) or Leon A/Claire B run. Absolutely not subdivided like this though.
So the canon route is Leon B? In Umbrella Chronicles I think it was they hinted towards Ada's "death" from falling was canon from how Wesker talked about it. But I guess Umbrella Chronicles was such a trainwreck that it's questionable to take anything as canon from the retcons it made.
It is upsetting through if Leon B is the canon route, since Ada's death in Leon B was totally inferior and absolutely filled with cheese as compared to the actual tear earning death in Leon A.
Enjoys speedruns but hasn't actually tried making any yet.
RE's entire plotline is a trainwreck, but Leon A/Claire B has a lot more holes and things that don't make sense. Also, Sherry shows up in RE6 and references things that only take place in Claire A/Leon B.
I think you are correct that they later stitched together some parts of Leon A re: Ada though, so maybe consider it a melange, but most likely, Capcom's writers just have no idea what they're doing and/or got confused.
Leon A/Claire B is much harder than Claire A/Leon B, so it makes sense to use that order in a TAS.
Also, I haven't watched this TAS yet, but I think there's a short final stage with both characters after you finish the scenario B. Will you TAS it too?
I'm conflicted. It seems based on the comments, making a suboptimal "A" TAS would potentially get a better "B" TAS and vice versa. While it might make sense to argue that this means both should be in one TAS, that may result in both parts being sub-optimal.
Although if I must chose, I think that the "A" run not be used as verification, and instead make a specifically crafted .dtm that would result in the best "B" scenario and then make a seperate "A" TAS that disregards whatever may happen in "B".
I can confirm that Claire B changes based on the actions Leon takes on his route. Also, as there's a final third act that you can only play after clearing both routes, I think there's a point to treat them as one single run in three sections.
I don’t think treating them all as a single thing would make sense. If you’re going for a speed record, each individual route will be its individual record, and you would try to optimize them individually. Why would you want to slow yourself down so that you can get some sort of feeling of “continuity”? Who cares? It’s a speed record, go for the fastest setup.
I don’t think treating them all as a single thing would make sense. If you’re going for a speed record, each individual route will be its individual record, and you would try to optimize them individually. Why would you want to slow yourself down so that you can get some sort of feeling of “continuity”? Who cares? It’s a speed record, go for the fastest setup.
That leads to the situation then where there's:
Leon A (clean save data)
Claire A (clean save data)
Leon B (loaded from a suboptimal Claire A clear save, optimized for Leon B)
Claire B (loaded from a suboptimal Leon A clear save, optimized for Claire B)
4th Survivor (save data must include B route save data with A rank)
Tofu Survivor (save data must include 6 routes completed plus unlocked 4th Survivor)
You can obviously put all of those on a single memory card, but that's pretty far from what "loading from save data" usually means. Also, he hasn't provided his save, so who knows if he even did use that other (suboptimal) run to create this one. Or if it's optimized for this one because he hasn't written much of anything.
Speaking of which, it's a moot point anyway because this is not optimal for Claire B so should be rejected for that. An easy improvement is to shoot the last incendiary at the ground in the elevator Birkin fight to both save a shot and start moving again sooner. I also highly suspect he can be stunlocked sooner. See here from a Claire A TAS:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25138606
That leads to the situation then where there's:
Leon A (clean save data)
Claire A (clean save data)
Leon B (loaded from a suboptimal Claire A clear save, optimized for Leon B)
Claire B (loaded from a suboptimal Leon A clear save, optimized for Claire B)
4th Survivor (save data must include B route save data with A rank)
Tofu Survivor (save data must include 6 routes completed plus unlocked 4th Survivor)
Yeah, it seems that this is the most logical solution.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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haven't watched the runs yet but,
since the A scenario influence the B one, it means that there is no way to have a "clean" save for B scenarios, ( if you play play the A scenario another way, the run won't sync, it's not just "new game from unlocked from a clear save", but more like a "new game + of the last scenario played" )
wouldn't it be more logical to combine both runs in one submition (adding a reset to load the save or even two files ? ) and simplify the categories as :
Claire A / Leon B || Leon A / Claire B || Hunk ||Tofu
this configuration would make the route comparaisons simpler and would prevent gray judging areas
Nicos you’re making no sense. Any submission of the B routes would need a save file to accompany them for sync anyway.
He means that the run would be one single thing, the A route that creates the save data, and then the B route that uses it. Creating saves from a clean file as you go is perfectly allowable (and often unavoidable) and there are certainly runs that use them in various ways. It's kind of like Kirby Super Star. Clearing one game plays an ending sequence and unlocks another. Except that the games don't affect each other while they do here... and RE2 boots you to the title screen to explicitly load the data instead of just merrily continuing on.
That runs into the potential issue that jlun mentioned though, each could be suboptimal for a more optimized paid. ie skipping a machine gun in A makes it take 10 seconds longer, but saves 15 seconds in B, or running past zombies in A saves 10 seconds, but killing them would save 20 seconds in B. Things like that.
In the regular speedrunville, the vast majority of the runs are just Leon A or Claire A. I suspect the logical compromise here is that an A run would be accepted as is, but could be obsoleted in the future by an A-B run if a good enough case can be made for any less optimal parts, and B runs on their own are unacceptable. Plus Hunk and Tofu, I guess.
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Due to the A/B behaviors, shouldn't a run have it's A and B parts as one movie file and be judged on that as a whole?
The other question I have is, Who's A/B should be done? Are the different A/B runs to be considered "Different" or "The Same"? Is Leon A/Claire B the same as Claire A/Leon B?
The Last Survivor and Tofu are different and separate.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war.
The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Can't we just accept B runs on their own, as long as they come with a verification movie that does whatever it takes in A to make B optimal, and ignore the A run? In the end, it's just like any run that requires a verification movie.
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There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
The other question I have is, Who's A/B should be done? Are the different A/B runs to be considered "Different" or "The Same"? Is Leon A/Claire B the same as Claire A/Leon B?
The first Resident Evil games had an easy and a hard mode based on which character you picked at the start. In RE2, Leon A/Claire B is the hard mode.
Can't we just accept B runs on their own, as long as they come with a verification movie that does whatever it takes in A to make B optimal, and ignore the A run? In the end, it's just like any run that requires a verification movie.
I agree with you.
Not to mention the whole issue of who is gonna even bother making 2 TASes of the same game just for a single submission? If you keep the categories separate at least you have a chance of seeing one of them get published.
Can't we just accept B runs on their own, as long as they come with a verification movie that does whatever it takes in A to make B optimal, and ignore the A run? In the end, it's just like any run that requires a verification movie.
We do not allow save-anchored movies.
We want a standard starting point for movies (power-on). Saves introduce an infinite amount of possible variation that may cause the game to behave differently compared to starting from power-on. They can also can be hacked, allowing nearly transparent cheating.
However, there are certain games with unlockable modes, second quests, or other things of interest that can only be accessed if a save file (or an otherwise "dirty" SRAM) is present. If you really wish to submit a movie made on such a mode, you will need a verification movie made and provided alongside it. Any input file that starts from power-on (for example, a previously submitted movie for that game) and creates the exact circumstances for your submission to sync will generally do.
welll, i don't like the overbranching it might create (6 branches Vs 4 )
but if the generated save file from the Leon A submition make it sync then there is nothing more to say :/
I'd like the idea of completing both in a row. Fastest to end of B would be published. Two branches then with whom you start.
Never played the game though. Thinking of tricks like a five hour movie in A to lure enemies away one by one (or put power-ups etc), so B gets really easy. That would be lame in my view. Maybe that isn't even possible.
Never played the game though. Thinking of tricks like a five hour movie in A to lure enemies away one by one (or put power-ups etc), so B gets really easy.
If TASes are required to be played in the highest difficulty, wouldn't a Claire B run without the alligator boss be considered easier difficulty than one with it? The one fighting the alligator could be submitted as an "all bosses" branch?
