Posted: 4/19/2015 2:36 PM
Post subject: How to detect TAS ?
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Zord
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Hey guys. This TAS thing is pretty cool, but apparently it also destroys competing on normal games. Or does it? Let's say I want to hold a competition in a racing game. The contest is time trial. How do I get proof of the times if it is i.e. a PlayStation 1 game? How to I tell whether the video is a TAS or just a video of somebody beeing awesome?
Posted: 4/19/2015 4:46 PM
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Aqfaq
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One option is http://www.speedrunslive.com/ Many speedrunners also stream live here: http://www.w00ty.com/sda/stream/ A hypothetical cheater would need to put lots of extra effort into his video, so that the run is not too good, because anyone who watches speedruns and TAS videos regularly can tell the difference quite reliably. Also, anyone stupid enough to cheat is not intelligent enough to make good stuff, so no worries. A good speedrunner needs not cheat and a good TASer would definitely not try to pass his masterworks as regular speedruns. To me it seems that a cheater would necessarily be bad at creating the content, so he would leave many clues that would make his cheat attempts obvious to experienced players.
Posted: 4/19/2015 7:23 PM
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Zord
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Thank you so much for the answer :)
Aqfaq wrote:
Also, anyone stupid enough to cheat is not intelligent enough to make good stuff, so no worries. A good speedrunner needs not cheat and a good TASer would definitely not try to pass his masterworks as regular speedruns.
You have a very good point :)
Posted: 4/19/2015 10:20 PM
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ALAKTORN
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There are tons of ways to cheat that do not require full-on TASing, and tons of top players have been caught cheating in the past, so I don’t fully agree with Aqfaq’s statement. The old Super Mario 64 16-stars WR was found to have been spliced only a few weeks/months ago, many years after it was set. The #1 and #2 players of Mario Kart Wii were found to be using codes such as “live ghost” to copy ghost input and edit it mid-run for their times. A multitude of other cheaters have existed in the history of video games competition. If you’re intelligent you can cheat and get away with it without anybody else figuring it out. It’s very likely that some WRs, old and current, could’ve been cheated. I believe in the vast majority of them, though.
Posted: 4/19/2015 11:31 PM
(Edited: 4/20/2015 3:36 AM)
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Amaraticando
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As a former Crash Team Racing speedrunner (time trial), I totally agree with ALAKTORN. Even without using TASVideos rerecording emulators, some people faked their times using only savestates and editing the movie. I don't think there's a reliable way to know if a run is legit, except with done live in front of many people (AGDQ). Even livestreams at Twitch can be faked, as the whole thing can be a movie and the player can be pretending to be playing. EDIT: example Link to video This has a "save states" in the title, but not prior to being unmasked.
Posted: 4/20/2015 12:59 AM
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ALAKTORN
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Amaraticando wrote:
Even livestreams at Twitch can be faked, as the whole thing can be a movie and the player can be pretending to be playing.
That’s not the only way to cheat during a livestream, either.
Posted: 4/20/2015 1:28 AM
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ars4326
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Wow. This thread is revealing. And here I thought widespread cheating only existed in sports (PED/steriod use).
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Posted: 4/20/2015 2:42 AM
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Spikestuff
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Posted: 4/20/2015 12:28 PM
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MUGG
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For the record, I suspected for the longest time that TheTycon's Super Mario Land WR video from a while back was a spliced or emulated run because the runner was never seen streaming his speedrun attempts and he did a few frame-perfect tricks - It was too good to be true. But I haven't been able to spot any inconsistencies in his video after looking at every frame. That video made me quit speedrunning SML because I would never have been able to improve it.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 12:41 PM
Post subject: Re: How to detect TAS ?
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adelikat
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Zord wrote:
This TAS thing is pretty cool, but apparently it also destroys competing on normal games
I think this thread does a good job at debunking this common myth (well, used to be common, I haven't the argument in quite some time). If you notice, TASing and TASing techniques are not a significant resource for cheating in realtime Speedrunning. If you want to cheat, there are more effective ways than using what we do.
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Posted: 4/21/2015 2:52 PM
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Zord
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I suppose to only way to be sure, is by watching it in person. :(
Posted: 12/26/2015 7:50 AM
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Bobthefloater
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Zord wrote:
I suppose to only way to be sure, is by watching it in person. :(
Watching a recording of a speed run with a clear shot of the controller being used, like with the hand-cam for trihex's Yoshi's Island speed run at the AGDQ 2014, would be more reliable, as the TV monitor showing the game could be linked to a CPU showing a TAS and the hand-cam would be near-impossible to fake convincingly (the inputs could be checked using an emulator). Besides, if someone wanted to cheat, then hacks played in real time (eg a Mario Kart 64 mod where you mostly get mushrooms, stars and green shells for Rainbow Road) would be difficult to identify and far quicker to do than a TAS.