Is OoT TASing dead? Someone hasn't posted in about 10 minutes. I know this topic is 10 years old, but this is serious.
Ignoring my own posts and peoples responses to them, then the last post in this thread when I asked was the 13th of July, which is nearly half a year ago. But if u think my concerns are unwarranted that's fine
Dude... not even three months is not "nearly half a year"
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Let's keep things civil and on-topic, please.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
there is nothing uncivil about pointing out inaccuracies in my post. I actually found it helpfull. I am not giving up hope of seeing a new any% TAS of OoT yet
Just so you know, there is no OoT TASer that plans do to any% right now because:
-GIM (Get Item Manipulation) for sure works on N64 but no one found a way to get it without crashing
-Moronic and GCTK already did one and was pretty optimised for something done in 3 days
As far I know people are working on mst, mst mq, low TAS of no IM/WW and I work on no RBA/WW even if we lost motivation because f*ck Lost Wood bridge u_u
"Lol as far as I'm aware no distinguished TASer gives a f*ck what's accepted. I certainly don't like Bizhawk but I'm glad to hear at least some TASers are picking up the better emulator" a distinguished TASer
Working on:
-OoT No RBA/WW
-Zapper 100%
_______________________________________
Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/amateseru :)
-Moronic and GCTK already did one and was pretty optimised for something done in 3 days
I don't want to be an ass here, but the time it took to do the TAS shouldn't be a benchmark for the quality of a TAS. The run itself is very improveable. The time of the run is 16:47, a high quality run would aim for a time of 16:0x for sure. That being a said, I really hope we will see a new optimized any% run in the near future by someone ;)
Just so you know, there is no OoT TASer that plans do to any% right now because:
-GIM (Get Item Manipulation) for sure works on N64 but no one found a way to get it without crashing
-Moronic and GCTK already did one and was pretty optimised for something done in 3 days
As far I know people are working on mst, mst mq, low TAS of no IM/WW and I work on no RBA/WW even if we lost motivation because f*ck Lost Wood bridge u_u
cool. no RBA/WW sounds like a good category to me. How is the progress going? You can't really call what Moronic and GCTK did a TAS though imo, since their product was a spliced video with no input file.
Also: Grunz hinting at a comeback? :D
@Mrgrunz : It was more like a challenge ("can we do this one in 3 days?!") and we did it. I bet some other TASers couldn't. I could redo the any% TAS a bit more improved for sure. My goal would not be 16:0x, more like 16:2x/16:3x because I just don't have the time to optimize it for a few months.
So I guess it's good to post new stuff,
boat skip is now possible in a few categories
Link to video
"Lol as far as I'm aware no distinguished TASer gives a f*ck what's accepted. I certainly don't like Bizhawk but I'm glad to hear at least some TASers are picking up the better emulator" a distinguished TASer
Working on:
-OoT No RBA/WW
-Zapper 100%
_______________________________________
Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/amateseru :)
I don't know if I posted this here a year ago (I kinda think I didn't) but at the time I was working on an alternate TAS route for any%.
The GIM would be in Zora's Domain and you'd then catch a fish and savewarp straight away.
Here's a video of what Zora's Domain could look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6eUYQ2zANA
If we found a fast way to get through that waterfall blocking Zora's Domain with just a sword then this would actually be quicker. I really like this route because it's more exciting which means people would actually want to TAS it.
There's also potential for an even faster GIM in the domain, there are a few options to mess around with
But yeah, I thought I should probably post here so this route idea is actually out here and not hidden.
The Zoras Domain TAS. Where did the bottle come from??
GIM, I delay a deku nut pickup and use the value from the heart piece chest to get the blue potion when I jump in the water.
In the actual video I used the wrong graphics plugin so to avoid crashing I had to miss the chest and manually write a blue potion into my items screen, but this is fully tested and won't crash with the right graphics plugin.
The Zoras Domain TAS. Where did the bottle come from??
GIM, I delay a deku nut pickup and use the value from the heart piece chest to get the blue potion when I jump in the water.
In the actual video I used the wrong graphics plugin so to avoid crashing I had to miss the chest and manually write a blue potion into my items screen, but this is fully tested and won't crash with the right graphics plugin.
But it still crashes an a real N64.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
GIM does not work on an n64 because the n64 crashes. The only way to perform the glitch is with an emulator that emulates the game differently than an n64 would. The closest GIM gets to being legit is when performed on dolphin, since that is an official emulator by nintendo and there is a release of Ocarina of Time available for gamecube. Even so this is the "Nintendo 64 Games" subforum and therefore any run using GIM should be irrelevant here.
Then GIM should be allowable in the context of Master Quest since the earliest official release of MQ was on the Gamecube.
Can we get confirmation that GIM works on Gamecube?
Very important things to clarify the GIM
To be honnest, I don't really know why it crashes on N64 (notice that it also crashes on VC or emu depending on the item you use to do the GIM)
However
It has been proofed that the GIM wouldn't crash on N64 if there was a way to not show Link while he raises his hands in the water (maybe it's possible with HP duplication ???)
Also, I heard that GIM only crashes with nuts if you have the 64DD (?!) so please if anyone has a 64DD and could test that would be awesome !
"Lol as far as I'm aware no distinguished TASer gives a f*ck what's accepted. I certainly don't like Bizhawk but I'm glad to hear at least some TASers are picking up the better emulator" a distinguished TASer
Working on:
-OoT No RBA/WW
-Zapper 100%
_______________________________________
Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/amateseru :)
It's really easy: Don't use GIM when emulating the N64 version.
There is no official N64 release for Master Quest anyway.
Then why are MQ roms for the N64 available? It's because the OoT/MQ disc that came with early copies of TWW. Were just N64 roms, with the games themselves being played via an emulator.
Just to clarify: I'm going to be working on improving the GIM routes regardless of whether they work on N64 or not. I don't really care about what can/can't be submitted to this site, this forum is a good place to talk about TASing OoT and so I'm going to do exactly that.
To be honest, both the GIM and non-GIM route are cool and having fully optimised TASes of both will be a good contribution to the TASing and speedrunning scene.
The GIM route will simply be able to show just how far the game can be pushed if played with perfect inputs on VC (which is what the vast majority of speedrunners play on).
Very important things to clarify the GIM
To be honnest, I don't really know why it crashes on N64 (notice that it also crashes on VC or emu depending on the item you use to do the GIM)
However
It has been proofed that the GIM wouldn't crash on N64 if there was a way to not show Link while he raises his hands in the water (maybe it's possible with HP duplication ???)
Also, I heard that GIM only crashes with nuts if you have the 64DD (?!) so please if anyone has a 64DD and could test that would be awesome !
The real mystery is why GIM doesn't crash on VC. We (or maybe just myself and a few people) have a relatively good understanding of why GIM crashes on N64. It does so when the game attempts to render the "GIM"ed item over Link's head, because the game sends a garbage task to the RCP. I've talked about it on ZSR, but I'll recap here as well.
When you collect an item that Link lifts over his head normally, the game displays a "hi res" model of that item. The data for the model (called an object file) is loaded off of rom on the fly into a special block of ram located immediately after Link's instance that is reserved for small graphical assets related to Link. This space is thus shared by all of the models held over link's head, as well as the "Title Card" graphic used when entering a new area. Lastly, there's a set of ids given to every different "get item" model (GI ID) that Link can hold over his head. The GI IDs are used to look up the start of the model, relative to the start of the shared space. When the game is ready to render whatever model over Link's head, the game sets a variable in Link's instance to the value of the appropriate GI ID. This data is conveniently stored in the same table used to determine what item you receive.
Get Item Manipulation Sheet
The process is different with GIM. You start off by collecting whatever item for the first time (for simplicity, lets say it's the Deku Nut). The Deku Nut GI object is loaded into ram, and the model id to render is set to 0x12 (0xEE is a signed byte, the sign is used for something else). When you manipulate what item you get and surface, the game doesn't overwrite the Deku Nut GI object file, but it overwrites the GI model id, which changes where the game looks for the start of the model.
Thus when Link is rendered, the malformed task of rendering the model over his head is sent, and the RCP chokes on it.
There is one other potential way to prevent the crash, at least for some situations. When you collect Light Arrows or the Blue Potion, it just so happens that those two GIMed items set a GI model id of 01, which correlates to an Empty Bottle. If there was a way to keep the Bottle object file loaded, the game wouldn't crash.
