So thanks everyone for your replies! Seeing a lot of great ideas arising here.
I like the structure ideas Grimpecent, Scrimpeh, Derakon, Creatheoceann, Spikestuff, Ais and others present. Thanks also for all the clip suggestions so far! I'm sure much of all of that will end up being used.
Music: Personally I like the light-hearted theme for the playaround section at least. Using VGM makes sense to avoid copyright issues, but I don't see a reason why we couldn't consider using a remix by one of the community members (apart from the one mentioned, Sanxion7, there's that Australian guy isn't there? he seems to mostly have original 8-bit works...) Wouldn't it be nice to give them a little exposure if they like + it would make the video all the more special?
From Sanxion7, I found as an example a purely instrumental "Korobejniki" (tetris theme) remix: http://sanxion7.com/album/as-i-hear-them-in-my-head. However, let's ask the composers if they wanna be involved directly.
So looks like so far many people are suggesting something like: INTRO-HOW TASING WORKS-EVOLUTION OF A TAS-PRECISION TRICKS-LUCK MANIPULATION-CLOSE CALLS-BUG ABUSE-ENTERTAINMENT-WTF ending.
Alternatively more by Derakon's version: INTRO-SUPERPLAY (i.e. normal gameplay without mistakes)(something in slow motion)-GAMEBREAKING-AMUSEMENT-SHORT CLIPS-CLIMAX.
Do you guys think we could even have snippets of an interview or "taser at work" real life footage? I'm thinking of the "evolution" section. Without any music, but still with relatively snappy editing. Also the "how tasing works" section might look nice with something like that.
And yes, let's avoid using tricks that aren't really TAS-only to cut down on the candidates. Also let's keep thinking about how the tricks appear to the "layman", so if the game isn't so well-known the trick should be all the more self-explanatory.
Other than that, I'm thinking people should now either edit the posts they've already made to include a link to the Youtube clip (directly at the right time) and what category they think it goes under. You may still suggest a different one from what I listed above.
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Sign of respect the oldest runs that have not yet been obsoleted should be shown.
Oldest to Youngest:
- Umihara Kawase
- The Combatribes
- Flashback
Also I wish I could find it now but I cannot, find bisqwit's logo (used in the last one) for the display of this is a tool-assisted.
Edit: Derp it's bisqwit's not adelikat's my bad. Got rid of other random idea.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
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Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Song suggestion:
Link to video
Fragments:
NES Rockin' Kats (USA) "Channel X" in 01:03.43 by AnS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykKgAeJtioU&t=53s
NES Dr. Mario (JPN/USA) in 01:12.83 by CtrlAltDestroy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlp143FCDk&t=59s
NES A Boy and His Blob in 01:41.73 by Kyman, SilentSlayers, and Aglar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=331v-D14V7k&t=44s
Super Castlevania IV (SNES) by arukAdo, Bablo, Cardboard, and scrimpeh in 29:38.08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1omRWt3Qfw&t=153shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1omRWt3Qfw&t=555shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1omRWt3Qfw&t=666s
International Super Star Soccer Deluxe by Marcokarty in 15:24.38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz4ib8d59sg&t=271shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz4ib8d59sg&t=440shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz4ib8d59sg&t=598s
Plot:
At first it is shown how Mario tries to get into the wall. Like tasers normally do that, with rerecords displayed in real time. Similarly to Bisqwit's Chrono Cross session.
Then when he finally gets into the wall, the rerecording concept is introduced as is, we can tell what we can do with games thanks to rerecording.
Dance - clips with dances and whirligig.
Draw - fire from Gunstar Heroes, Brain Age, Tetris playaround.
Trick - last boss in Chamale's River Sity Ransom kills himself, last ghost in Gimmick several times in a row damages from the same star when the movie is already over.
Play our own game - Fire pong from Gunstar Heroes, button display from JXQ's Super Metroid opening.
Zip - various Megaman's zips.
Glitch - background, gameplay glitches. Something from the glitched Super Metroid, from Rockman & Forte 100CD.
...and just have fun - random mix of everything, including some multitas.
Ending: Megaman runs through the glitched world that Wily never managed to save from Megaman.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
A good demonstration of luck manipulation would be one of the Harmony of Dissonance boss fights (not with Maxim, but the other guy). I know at least one of the published TASes has a string of like 5-6 "CRITICAL!" messages all onscreen at the same time -- I think it was used as the publication screenshot.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
As a runner/TASer of the GBA Metroids, they have a fair share of interesting boss fights:
Fusion 100% Yakuza - Does enough damage in the first phase to skip the second phase of the fight completely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EOBTd99nnY&t=55m17s
Zero Mission Brinstar Worm - Hits with three missiles on the same frame to kill instantly. Might be hard to follow unless you know the game and/or watch it in slow motion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMMiw4TX6Q&t=1m40s
Zero Mission any% Ridley - High Flying antics and lots of projectiles flying around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMMiw4TX6Q&t=10m40s
Zero Mission any% Mother Brain - Collecting a lot of ammo mid-fight. Also uses tight precision shooting to kill her in 3 rounds as opposed to the usual 4 realtime runners do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMMiw4TX6Q&t=19m10s
Zero Mission 100% Imago - Nothing more than precise missile firing, allowing the boss to be killed in one round using only one super: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyCm3wVJSE4&t=20m47s
Zero Mission 100% Mecha Ridley - Just a fast kill with some fun acrobatics, might be confusing to some if they don't know that the boss's health triples when you collect 100%: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyCm3wVJSE4&t=59m50s
Zero Mission low% Kraid - Uses crazy morph hovering and bombs to stay in Kraid's face the entire fight. Also features some great drop manipulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TZi3OtsZb8&t=14m30s
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
The composer/orchestra has copyright on a specific performance even if the score itself is out of copyright, though. So some care is needed.
I love how using public domain music from a composer that died in the 18th century seems to be more problematic than using copyrighted game music that was composed like 10 to 20 years ago (with most of the composers very much alive.)
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
NrgSpoon wrote:
Despite being over 6 years old now, I still think Mega Man X2 is the best TAS on the site. It doesn't use any huge glitches but still displays a large amount of impressive variety. Something from the 22:10-22:30 mark would be my suggestion.
I've also for ages maintained MMX2 to be the pinnacle of precise weapon usage and movement. We should definitely use something there, and your suggestion is pretty good.
Tub wrote:
The thing I disliked about the old video was that it didn't even try to educate the viewer. At no point does the video mention that these tricks are done using emulators, or how they are done.
This is a good point. Based on this and others, we need a timeline written up.
The start of the previous video is good, showing lousy SMB player, followed by HappyLee's best segment. Next we need sections with some slides in between describing them.
You suggestion for how to break it up are good. For the ending, we should use a minute of short insane clips, as I suggested previously.
turska wrote:
I like the idea of grouping various scenes. Nach's suggestion of very precise survival could be one such group, with stuff like SM RBO, Rome in Commander Keen 2, and similar things.
I like the preciseness of energy in SM RBO, we should show that. Commander Keen should also be shown as he's an iconic character, and I love your tight play in CK2.
turska wrote:
For music I think using BGM from the games showcased is best. You could have 1-2 minutes of Mario scenes with music from SMB or SMB3, then Mega Man games with Wily Stage 2, Mega Man X games with Zero's theme, and so on. It'd also avoid copyright issues.
I think we should play the actual audio from each clip we show as this way all the proper sound effects are present. We should probably merge the audio with some other background track at a slightly lower volume to give a consistent sound throughout. We should probably use a long video game remix like adelikat did with his intro. I also notice the same author did a nice Fighting of the Spirit remix, but I'm not saying we should use it, and we may be best off using two or three given the length of the video we want to make. Perhaps even use a different track for each segment of the video.
Spikestuff wrote:
Sign of respect the oldest runs that have not yet been obsoleted should be shown.
Oldest to Youngest:
- Umihara Kawase
- The Combatribes
- Flashback
Just because they're old doesn't mean they're good.
The Combatribes is one of our lowest rated movies ever. It hasn't been obsoleted because of how hated it is.
Spikestuff wrote:
Also random idea, request every encoder to pass their logo to show the expanding tasvideos.
I'm not sure how that contributes here. Also, Bisqwit and I have some of the oldest and flashiest logos. The newer ones look much plainer by comparison.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Regarding overlaying a "primary" soundtrack on top of the game sound, I have trouble believing that this can be done without the game music conflicting badly with the soundtrack. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it just doesn't seem like it'd work well.
In my opinion we'd be better-served with a soundtrack replacing the game sound except for one or maybe two points in the video where sound is especially relevant to the play (e.g. cutting out so we can hear the announcer yelling "GOAL! GOAL! GOAAAAAL!" in Superstar Soccer).
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
AnS wrote:
Remember, the first promotional video was this:
Link to video
There's two things we should reuse from this:
SMB3 8-2, going down the mountain killing all the Piranhas.
SMB2 4-1, weaving between the enemies, and even jumping from underneath them. This by the way hasn't been done in the most recent TAS's, so grab from an older one.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Do you guys think we could even have snippets of an interview or "taser at work" real life footage? I'm thinking of the "evolution" section. Without any music, but still with relatively snappy editing. Also the "how tasing works" section might look nice with something like that.
I know some people have done some live streams when TASing. I think a good idea would be to use a timelapse of one of these in the background with some descriptive text when it would be relevant. The way it would show a bunch of failures but gradually advancing is a good visual.
So as it stands I have volunteered to create the storyboard for this video. It will of course still require lots of input from everyone if it is to be finished in any short amount of time, and to make it as good as it deserves to be!
"derakon wrote:
I know at least one of the published TASes has a string of like 5-6 "CRITICAL!" messages all onscreen at the same time -- I think it was used as the publication screenshot.
Spikestuff wrote:
Sign of respect the oldest runs that have not yet been obsoleted should be shown.
I'll look at all of this later, though ideally people who have suggestions should do as much of the research themselves as possible (as in what clip from what run and what category/-ies does it fit in - more on that follows below). Increases the chances of it being included if I can find it obviously.
Thanks feos for multiple suggestions, I see the "Gooaal" ones are linked. I like your idea about continuing to use Mario Bros and taking the wall zip. I can already see live footage used in this section. So I will definitely consider that.
Patashu wrote:
If you have any ideas for tracks you want I can try my hand at it.
Thanks for the offer! I think what might happen is I'll take a look at people's suggestions and the kind of overarching story I start seeing and whenever something clicks I'll ask you to remix a piece of VGM for that part. In case you know anyone else (apart from Sanxion7) from the community with a proclivity for composing, ask them if they're interested or let me know who they are.
Warp wrote:
I love how using public domain music from a composer that died in the 18th century seems to be more problematic than using copyrighted game music that was composed like 10 to 20 years ago (with most of the composers very much alive.)
I count myself as being very ignorant of these matters in fact. I think one of the reasons VGM is "safer" is that if it's a remix it won't be recognized by any automatic algorithms. I don't know how legal it makes it but I'm looking at an incredible amount of VGM on YouTube with seemingly no copyright claims. Probably the same for the great majority of traditional recordings though the situation, as I understand, may now be evolving into something more restrictive. No comment on what's legal, but I think I'm going to construe this as "fair use"...
AnS wrote:
Remember, the first promotional video was this:
A-ha! So there has been another one before. After taking a short look it seems to emphasize the "godlike play" aspect of tassing as the newer one does. This makes me all the more think the new video should peek behind the scenes a lot more. Thanks a lot for posting this!
Nach, thanks for finding the old thread! 10+ years and you haven't aged a bit! And NrgSpoon yes your idea has potential (showing someone's live streaming with time lapse). I hadn't even thought of using a stream (or just Skype) for doing the interview too. So that's a few more possibilities.
----
So keep giving me the following!
Clip links, preferably with the time of whatever you wanted to candidate (right click and choose the second option on youtube), a little description of what it contains and what category or categories you think it could go under. Remember that by doing that you (who are more familiar with the source material) are directly saving me the effort! Here is an updated list of possible categories:
Ridiculously CLOSE CALL/SURVIVAL
otherwise high-PRECISION segments
make sure it's instantly understood by anyone that precision is involved, i.e. not just an ordinary-looking trick that YOU know takes frame-perfect input
GAME-BREAKING glitches and bugs
LUCK manipulation
unfair (for the boss) BOSS fights
GODLIKE/SUPERPLAY (think 100% kills in an autoscroller)
different from "survival" even if it involves standing in dangerous spots if it wasn't necessary
ZIPPING
unusual/fast MOVEMENT
GRAPHICS glitching
MULTIPLAYER mayhem
ENDING: candidates for the final segment of the video (the rapid-fire montage)
I will probably use a lot of the "leftovers" here anyway.
LAST CLIP as in the very last one
a strong candidate for this might be something that actually involves a game ending
ENTERTAINMENT/PLAYAROUND style playing. (includes autoscroller antics)
Drawing a pattern, making music etc. CREATIVE activity using weapon fire or other in-game
currently Family Feud, Scribblenauts and Brain Age have been brought up
DANCING
EDUCATIVE like the Chrono Cross video
EVOLUTION of a tas: for this category you should preferably find a particular segment of gameplay that has progressively gotten more and more streamlined over at least 3-4 TASes. I'm thinking of the way someone did the "evolution" of Quake's E4M3 map "Elder God Shrine", which I couldn't find the video of. It's just the same map from the 4 different QDQ movies. Candidates that are coherent enough to follow and show obvious changes between each revision score highly in this category.
REAL LIFE: this is the category for real-life footage, i.e. if someone comes across an interview or even news story about tassing... also if you want to suggest a live streamer to ask for permission to use one of their broadcasts. So far I know of theenglishman.
If you want to give MUSIC suggestions, you can also put that into a specific category (one of the more general categories).
Please use the least amount of abbreviations! I didn't know what SM RBO (Super Metroid: Reverse Boss Order) was for instance. You may also edit the info into a post you've already made, just mark it with EDIT. I will read everything once again when starting to mark down the candidates for each category. And keep thinking about the following:
1) Does the casual viewer have the knowledge it requires to understand what is happening in the clip or what makes it unusual? There will be people watching who don't know anything about console gaming or about PC gaming for instance. If the candidate requires some background it might still get used but obviously there's a limit to how many can be fit in. Just a random example of a clip that's more difficult to use because of this:
Dragonfangs wrote:
Clips that have the visual effect -factor or are otherwise self-standing pass the mark more easily.
2) Is it really TAS-only? I.e. requires a ton of manipulation or practically inhuman precision.
3) I still think the IDEAL candidate is from a publication that has been superseded by a video where the special moment was lost.
Clips from previous movies may still be suggested of course.
Okay, the clip I was thinking of for LUCK manipulation is here (link to start of fight; the entire fight is full of crits). It's not quite as extreme as I was remembering, but it's still something like 75% critical hits, which has got to be an obvious anomaly. :)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
In case you know anyone else (apart from Sanxion7) from the community with a proclivity for composing, ask them if they're interested or let me know who they are.
For unusual/fast movement, check out Legend of Zelda II and Battle of Olympus. Both of the runs involve tricks that involve overriding the speed cap.
For dancing, the best dancing I've seen in a TAS is Journey to Silius before the boss fights.
More of a general remark, but I think it should be clear in (nearly) all of the clips what is going on, even if the viewer is unfamiliar with the game. Sometimes the story behind it is cooler than how it looks. I don't know for instance how well a clip of a pokemon being caught would work in such a video. Also, the more the video and the audio coincide, the better.
