If a TAS has been obsoleted by SDA's current record aiming for the same category, put a notice saying that it has been obsoleted by SDA's current record for the same category. if the game has an ingame timer, measure by it. do SDA time for games that do not.
if the game has an ingame timer, measure by it. do SDA time for games that do not.
Are you suggesting that TASVideos universally use SDA timing? SDA's timing system makes more sense for human play, but TASVideos' timing system makes more sense for TASes. In particular, starting from power-on ensures that stuff like choosing the difficulty or skipping opening cinematics is done optimally, which is important for TASes but irrelevant for SDA speedruns.
Then of course there's also things like TASes that end input before the game actually ends (before SDA timing would end); we've had that argument a billion times already. I don't think that the current system here is likely to change.
In any event, I don't think it's unreasonable to note in a movie's description if it's been obsoleted by an SDA run, but as far as I'm aware this is a pretty rare occurrence (Ocarina of Time and ActRaiser are the only examples I can think of), so I don't think it's really worth changing the site code for.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Surely if a TAS is obsoleted by a real time run it'll be because of some new glitch that no one has got around to making a new TAS with yet, not because the TAS got out-optimized?
if the game has an ingame timer, measure by it. do SDA time for games that do not.
Are you suggesting that TASVideos universally use SDA timing? SDA's timing system makes more sense for human play, but TASVideos' timing system makes more sense for TASes. In particular, starting from power-on ensures that stuff like choosing the difficulty or skipping opening cinematics is done optimally, which is important for TASes but irrelevant for SDA speedruns.
Then of course there's also things like TASes that end input before the game actually ends (before SDA timing would end); we've had that argument a billion times already. I don't think that the current system here is likely to change.
In any event, I don't think it's unreasonable to note in a movie's description if it's been obsoleted by an SDA run, but as far as I'm aware this is a pretty rare occurrence (Ocarina of Time and ActRaiser are the only examples I can think of), so I don't think it's really worth changing the site code for.
No. it's talking about already obsoleted movies. TASvideos should use console on.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
It doesn't make sense to apply a different timing method to only some movies. If we don't have internal consistency in movie timing, then things will turn confusing very fast.
Putting a note with SDA timing in the description is fair enough, I suppose, but still not really necessary for obsoleted movies (by nature of their being obsoleted), and I can't think of any examples on the site that aren't obsoleted. Care to give an example, so that it is clearer to us what you are talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I looked at the page of your WIP, and assuming the time is half of the actual time based on your encodes, it's 1:08:45.10 by the time you end your WIP.
I haven't watched the run on SDA for a while, but given that it's 1:50:53 long, and you only have like 4 chapters left, that's a huge improvement! Nice work!
The record is 1:29:48 on the PS3 version with newgame+, but for newgame idk the record. I don't trust SDA with keeping the best times, cause they still have my very shitty run on there that is 20 minutes slower than the actual record, haha. I'm hoping that I can get about 1:37:xx, but unfortunately most of the time saved is purely from loading differences.
For runs to be hosted on SDA the runner (or someone the runner has given permission) has to submit it, if the holders of the faster times don't submit their runs there is no chance for SDA to host them.
From here.
So SDA may not be completely up to date with the records.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
I'm personally going to drag out back and shoot the next person to suggest something about how we should follow the rules of a specific video game site, or make it a site goal to specifically promote a certain video game site.
If editors want to put information about runs elsewhere in a particular movie's description, when it makes sense to, they can do so.
No outside video game site is special, nor carries any weight more than any other one. The relevance of outside movies differ on a movie to movie basis.
For now I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone in this thread, and assume you all meant that movies should mention if they were beaten by a record elsewhere, wherever that is, if applicable.
So if a run of ours is beaten elsewhere in real time, we should probably have a page listing high priority movies to redo.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6439
Location: The land down under.
I know PeteThePlayer (PAL, 44:44) is faster than Mukki's run of Crash 2 any% since more glitches are used...
AND SLIDE SPIN IS USED! (Seriously why did you accept that run without not knowing slide spin (no offense to mukki at all))
ZtarZtorm used NTSC and didn't use all the methods (death abusing) but got 47:44... if he practiced more he would easily beat the tas time.
(Fastest no death abuse is 47:07 PAL ElectronAvenue)
Edit: Spyro, Crash & Ape Escape Leader Boards. is where you can look at these times + videos.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
I know PeteThePlayer (PAL, 44:44) is faster than Mukki's run of Crash 2 any% since more glitches are used...
AND SLIDE SPIN IS USED! (Seriously why did you accept that run without not knowing slide spin (no offense to mukki at all))
Where is this 44:44 run you are talking about? All I see on this page are the 13:18 glitched version and the 1:39:59 100% version.
And consider that maybe, just maybe, nobody ever brought up the idea of slide spin, and most people there found the run worth publishing.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
FractalFusion wrote:
Spikestuff wrote:
I know PeteThePlayer (PAL, 44:44) is faster than Mukki's run of Crash 2 any% since more glitches are used...
AND SLIDE SPIN IS USED! (Seriously why did you accept that run without not knowing slide spin (no offense to mukki at all))
Where is this 44:44 run you are talking about? All I see on this page are the 13:18 glitched version and the 1:39:59 100% version.
And consider that maybe, just maybe, nobody ever brought up the idea of slide spin, and most people there found the run worth publishing.
I'm pretty sure he's talking about this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e34guZUl2VI
And yeah, it occasionally happens that movies sometimes have improvements due to new tricks, sometimes even tricks that were already there that the author didn't know about. I know this once happened to one of my own runs, where I didn't find out about a certain trick until the run was already submitted and published.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I'm personally going to drag out back and shoot the next person to suggest something about how we should follow the rules of a specific video game site, or make it a site goal to specifically promote a certain video game site.
If editors want to put information about runs elsewhere in a particular movie's description, when it makes sense to, they can do so.
No outside video game site is special, nor carries any weight more than any other one. The relevance of outside movies differ on a movie to movie basis.
For now I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone in this thread, and assume you all meant that movies should mention if they were beaten by a record elsewhere, wherever that is, if applicable.
So if a run of ours is beaten elsewhere in real time, we should probably have a page listing high priority movies to redo.
I'm personally going to drag out back and shoot the next person to suggest something about how we should follow the rules of a specific video game site, or make it a site goal to specifically promote a certain video game site.
If editors want to put information about runs elsewhere in a particular movie's description, when it makes sense to, they can do so.
No outside video game site is special, nor carries any weight more than any other one. The relevance of outside movies differ on a movie to movie basis.
For now I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone in this thread, and assume you all meant that movies should mention if they were beaten by a record elsewhere, wherever that is, if applicable.
So if a run of ours is beaten elsewhere in real time, we should probably have a page listing high priority movies to redo.
I agree.
I don't agree.
As Patashu said, the TAS is probably only slower due to some new trick or glitch, not because it's less optimized than the realtime run. There are probably quite a few runs with known improvements. I don't see why games that 1) happen to have known improvements that are executable in realtime runs, 2) happen to have an SDA run that incorporates this known improvement and 3) where this particular improvement accounts for some arbitrary time difference should be singled out.
A general page where known improvements can be looked up per game might not be a bad idea.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6439
Location: The land down under.
Baxter wrote:
I don't agree.
As Patashu said, the TAS is probably only slower due to some new trick or glitch, not because it's less optimized than the realtime run. There are probably quite a few runs with known improvements. I don't see why games that 1) happen to have known improvements that are executable in realtime runs, 2) happen to have an SDA run that incorporates this known improvement and 3) where this particular improvement accounts for some arbitrary time difference should be singled out.
A general page where known improvements can be looked up per game might not be a bad idea.
The thing is some games, the judges never actually take any time to research.
eg Crash 2 (because that's the easiest example.) the fastest method was founded before the tas was even started and mukki went with sliding without the spinning.
Crash 1 however the fastest movement (Spin + Jump + Wiggle) was only founded about 2 years ago.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
The thing is some games, the judges never actually take any time to research.
eg Crash 2 (because that's the easiest example.) the fastest method was founded before the tas was even started and mukki went with sliding without the spinning.
I think some proof is required for a statement like this, okay?
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
The judges are not going to be experts on every game they judge, and it's not reasonable to expect them to be. They'll be looking for more general suboptimalities, as well as audience reception.
Ideally the TASer would find all existing information about making runs for the game (including checking on realtime speedrunning techniques), but sometimes they don't, or their research is simply incomplete. As a backup, the audience watching on the workbench can mention known improvements. If both of those fail (TASer didn't know about an existing trick, and audience didn't know either), then oh well, someone can make a more-optimal run and submit it.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
The judges are not going to be experts on every game they judge, and it's not reasonable to expect them to be. They'll be looking for more general suboptimalities, as well as audience reception.
What are you talking about? Clearly we should fire adelikat for accepting that run.
Spikestuff wrote:
Well this is going to take some time to find the original thread...
Any luck so far?
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3
xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D
Help improving TASVideos!
Does the fact that the SDA run played on Easy have any impact? I don't really remember what the difficulty select in Super Dodge Ball does, but I wouldn't be surprised if it affects enemy defense.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
