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Post subject: Re: new WIP (3:42 exiting Altar Cave)
Joined: 3/23/2005
Posts: 32
Location: Croatia
Man, the link doesn't work.
-- Fortune
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I've picked up working on this run since a few months back when I decided to focus on other things. Since then, I've been able to put in some good progress, and now I feel it's time to start a new topic about this game since the old topic was too much of a mess. I'll update this topic whenever I update my WIP or when I have something new to say. THE RUN: Latest WIP: v216 Length: 00:17:17 Frames: 62223 Undo count: 4863 ROM used: Final Fantasy III (J).nes ROM checksum: 547a0de20dcd2966a503add1b9a43fd5 Emulator used: FCEU 0.98.12 (blip) (Here is the old WIP v214 AVI version in x264 thanks to DeHackEd to those who want an AVI version. I'll encode a WIP in x264 AVI as soon as the run reaches 30 minutes in length.) AUTHOR'S NOTES: 00:00:00 - 00:04:54: The Altar Cave Nothing interesting here. The first cave is a breeze. Two Southwinds are retrieved from treasure chests. I don't use them against the boss because I need to reserve them for later battles. I like the long intro you see after talking to the crystal, because it's a nice intro screen to such a long movie. Regardless if you like it or not, it can't be skipped. :) 00:04:54 - 00:07:25: Item errand Getting Cid's airship which is hidden in the desert (you need to talk to him in Kazus before you can find it), and getting the Ice magic in Sasoon Castle to use against Jinn. I also switch jobs to a Black Mage and White Mage (the other two remain Onion Knights), and sleep in a bed to make sure they have MP for the battle with Jinn later. 00:07:25 - 00:11:14: Lifting Jinn's curse I first grab the Cure magic and give it to my White Mage (and also give the Ice magic to my Black Mage in the same menu session). All battles are ran from, but since I now have Cure, I can also abuse a programming error where I restore the HP of one of my party members prior to a random encounter to reset the step counter. I can walk through entire maps that way without getting a single encounter, simply by using Cure on a random person or using a Potion. We also meet Princess Sara, who is kind enough to seal Jinn in her ring for us after we beat him up using Ice magic and one Southwind. The chat with the king in Sasoon Castle afterwards is to obtain the canoe so we can get our airship back where we parked it. About luck manipulation: Luck is very difficult to manipulate in this game. You'll find that I don't waste any time when choosing my battle commands, because unlike in other games, there's nothing to manipulate with time in-battle. It's possible to change the course of a battle by waiting for a certain amount of frames outside of battle, however. In-battle, the only thing that can affect the outcome are the actions you perform. Having a character defend instead of attack, for example, may affect the effectiveness of any attack that comes after it, including that of the boss himself. As a result, battles are very tedious to make. If you know more about manipulating luck in this game, please post about it, since I could go for some extra grip. :) ROUTE PLANNING:
  • Now that I have two Southwinds, the battle with Big Rat will be easy, depending on how able I am to finish off the rest of him with the level 3 magic spells (Bolt2, Ice2, Fire2), or maybe Aero. I'm definitely making more Black Mages for this purpose. I need to get to a higher level to be able to cast level 3 magic spells.
  • The bosses after that shouldn't be much trouble. What I'm really worried about is the Galura fight. He has 5000 HP and uses a heavy lightning attack every round, which hits everybody. I'll need to be around level 15 in order for my Dragoons to have enough agility to get in the air where they can't be reached before Galura will attack them.
TODO LIST FOR THE FINAL VERSION:
  • Grab the potion in the first map for a one-time battle avoider.
Post subject: The TA is good but..
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
If you could figure out how to Manipulate Critical Hits, the game would be much faster, since the Damage for Melee Attacks would be high. I've been playing the English Version of this game on VirtuaNES, and the game is really quite impressive. Your Time Attack is quite good so far.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Thanks. :) Unfortunately, it seems to be impossible to manipulate critical hits. Of course, I could be very wrong, it's just that I haven't been able to find any way to manipulate a battle other than waiting frames outside of battle. You're all welcome to help me in trying to figure this out. :)
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I'll do some snooping around, and see what I can find, hehe.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Why do you use japanese version of the rom? Does it speed up the dialogues by not haveing as many dialogue boxes?
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
Part of the rules for having movies published here is that patched ROMs cannot be used. Hacks, translations.. doesn't matter. Since the Japanese version of this game is the only official one, it's the only one that will be allowed here for movie-making. For other games where an English version is also available, sometimes the Japanese is chosen for the reason you mentioned.. faster dialog. =)
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 57
There is no official translation for this game in english.
I won't give up unless my victory is assured!
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Paulygon and Ego Buff are correct. Plus, the Japanese version does have fewer dialogue boxes. It's also nice that you don't have the urge to read the dialogue which is skipped too quickly for it to be legible. Currently, I've not made too much progress--I went to Canaan and grabbed the Elixir (without giving it to Cid's Granny, as the things you gain from it aren't that useful anyway).
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
It would just be nice to see what skills, items, etc. you use in this timeattack. That's why i would like to se it as an english version.
Which run should I encode next? :)
Post subject: No English version.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Maza wrote:
It would just be nice to see what skills, items, etc. you use in this timeattack. That's why i would like to se it as an english version.
Sorry. Like stated before, the translated version is a ROM hack. A movie made with it would not be eligible for publishing on this site. EDIT: besides, you can usually tell what's going on by looking at the animations.
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
In the first room there is a treasure chest which contains a potion. Would it not be good to pick it up so you could use it to avoid a battle encounter somewhere? And maybe it is possible to get another potion from the fight you win in the cave.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Tafatt wrote:
In the first room there is a treasure chest which contains a potion. Would it not be good to pick it up so you could use it to avoid a battle encounter somewhere? And maybe it is possible to get another potion from the fight you win in the cave.
Yeah, I did think about that. I forgot about the fact a potion will save some frames when I first went through that level. It's on my list of things to do for when I will start to make version 2, which I won't make until I actually know exactly which route I'll use for the game. TODO: I should add a "notes for version 2" part to the first post.
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Just to say that when you input your name you type "Onuga", just saying since your nickname here is "Omega", so I'm guessing it was a mistake? Anyway, FF3 rocks :)
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Ooh, I didn't even notice that. It's only a curl worth of difference after all. ぬ=nu め=me It can probably be fixed with some easy hex editing since the number of moves required to for the O-ME-GA is less than for O-NU-GA. If battle outcome really only depends on which frame battle is entered, I mean. If we want to be really picky it should be in katakana since it's a foreign name, thus オメガ, but who cares.
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Gotta catch'em all!
おあさきまほはよもしへひ‥カウメノイト‥チミヨ‥ム    O.A.SAKIMAHOHAYOMOSIHEHI‥KAU.MENOI.TO‥TIMIYO‥MU
ぬめとこにたなねわれくふ‥ケワヌソンサナテユコエヘ    NUMETOKONITANANEWAREKUFU‥KEWANUSON.SANATEYUKOE.HE
みのつうらちろるをせや‥‥クフスツシリルレヒロオホ    MINOTUU.RATIRORUWOSEYA‥‥KUHUSUTUSIRIRUREHIROO.HO
んえそていりけかすむゆ‥‥タラヲ‥キニハセヤアマネ    N.E.SOTEI.RIKEKASUMUYU‥‥TARAWO‥KINIHASEYAA.MANE
(No, they are not in alphabetical order. They are in 2-dimensional confusion order :P Romanizations listed on the right.)
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Haha, that's awesome. And Bisqwit, it was you who "confirmed" that I had entered my name correctly after I showed you a screenshot. :p Well, I guess it only matters one or two pixels. I'll just add it to the to-do list for version 2, if I'm not just going to go gibberish on the name for that version to save time. I actually waited about three frames after I had input the names, just so I could manipulate the first battle for me to be able to run from it with the first move. Final Fantasy III can't be hex edited, unfortunately, because if you alter one thing in the entire movie, all the battles fought from that point will have become invalidated due to luck manipulation.
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Omega wrote:
And Bisqwit, it was you who "confirmed" that I had entered my name correctly after I showed you a screenshot. :p
Sorry.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
>I actually waited about three frames after I had input the names, just so I could manipulate the first battle for me to be able to run from it with the first move. Final Fantasy III can't be hex edited, unfortunately, because if you alter one thing in the entire movie, all the battles fought from that point will have become invalidated due to luck manipulation. What I meant was, since the real name can be inputted in shorter time than the one you are using now, you could easily hex-edit it to use your real name, and put in some blanks to make it have the exact same length as the movie now. Then random should be the same. You wont gain time, but you will gain your real name. >I'll just add it to the to-do list for version 2, if I'm not just going to go gibberish on the name for that version to save time. Don't. In a movie like this which will likely end up being over an hour (what's your estimate, anyway?), it's better to put 30 frames on having a something resembling real unique names for the characters.
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
These rules are making me wish I could read Japanese.. -.-
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
In a movie that ends up being over an hour, you need to save all the time you can get! So use gibberish.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Truncated wrote:
Don't. In a movie like this which will likely end up being over an hour (what's your estimate, anyway?), it's better to put 30 frames on having a something resembling real unique names for the characters.
I haven't really thought thoroughly about the time it will take. I need to do some levelling early on so I can face Galura at level 15 (and possibly Hyde at level 10), and then I'll probably do the rest of my levelling once I reach the catacombs at the end, as by then, I'll have the wand that petrifies enemies (manipulate luck outside of battle to be able to kill them in one blow). All other battles are either not fought (this is 90%) as I can use potions or Cure magic to avoid them altogether. The remaining battles are used as quick level-ups or plain simply ran from at the first move. I've only played this game normally without trying to use special tactics, but I'll tell you now that I would be really surprised if this run ended up being less than two hours.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
How soon can we expect more of your fantastic work? I'd really like to see this timeattack as full. Keep up the good work! :)
Which run should I encode next? :)
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I've been a little busy with work and college lately, but I'm free tonight, so I'll try to get to Tozas. :) Glad to see people appreciate the run for this game! Tricky could be getting an additional level-up in the road to the summit, since apparently there's one tile there which sets off a much more difficult battle. If I could win that through luck manipulation, Big Rat will be much easier. The fact that the tile exists is unconfirmed, however.
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 75
Omega wrote:
Truncated wrote:
Don't. In a movie like this which will likely end up being over an hour (what's your estimate, anyway?), it's better to put 30 frames on having a something resembling real unique names for the characters.
I haven't really thought thoroughly about the time it will take. I need to do some levelling early on so I can face Galura at level 15 (and possibly Hyde at level 10), and then I'll probably do the rest of my levelling once I reach the catacombs at the end, as by then, I'll have the wand that petrifies enemies (manipulate luck outside of battle to be able to kill them in one blow). All other battles are either not fought (this is 90%) as I can use potions or Cure magic to avoid them altogether. The remaining battles are used as quick level-ups or plain simply ran from at the first move. I've only played this game normally without trying to use special tactics, but I'll tell you now that I would be really surprised if this run ended up being less than two hours.
I'll agree with you on the length-keep in mind that the FF1 run was 1 1/2 hours long and was half the size in megabits, and roughly in length.
"If all you did this year was sit in your cubicle and masturbate...say you're a self-starter who proactively reengineered your personal inventory with Total Quality, conforming to all EEO/OSHA/ISO9000 requirements."-Scott Adams
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