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Game objectives

  • Emulator used: VisualBoyAdvance rerecording v23 svn203
  • Manipulate luck
  • Takes damage to save time
  • abusing game errors
Thank to Bag of Magic Food’s encode.
List: part1 part2 part3 part4 part5 part6 part7
Special Thank to Bag of Magic Food’s help. His introductions help me too much.
There are some addresses for mmbn2.
Megaman or Lan’s X: 02006374 Y: 02006376 ↙: 02004C60 ↘: 02004C62 (2byte)
About styles. 02003A6C CUSTOM, 02003A68 GUTS, 02003A70 TEAM, 02003A74 SHIELD(2byte). Use these address, it’s very easy to control which the style I will get.
0x02005EC0~0x02005EDD(1byte)displays the folder slot number in the battle.
You can see the first folder chips’ ID and code from MMBN2 Save State Hacking Guide.
I usually use these cheat to get the chip what I want in the License tests, and playing through once to find the slot pointer which I dumped.
Easily use this address ID: 0x02007EA8 code: 0x02007EAA(2byte) to display the chip which be got from chip trader.
Glitch: In the mother1 computer, there is a focus battle. But pass start and view the chip can avoid this battle. Suggest: check option-> video->disable SFX, when watch the run in the mother1 computer. Don’t forget uncheck it later.
Chips explain:
M-BurstPA: power 100*10. This is the first and second hit, every 9frames 1hit, 10 hits in all.
OOOOXO--OOOXOX
OOOXXX--OOOOXO
OOOOXO--OOOXOX
SilverFist: While holding A, input these key sequences to activate special function of corresponding fist.
f,u,b,d,f Effect: 1 rocket punch on each row.
Varsword: While holding A, input these key sequences to activate the corresponding function.
(b=back, f=forward, u=up, d=down, B=B button)
LongSword: d,df,f
WideSword: u,f,d
FighterSword: b,d,f
DreamSword: d,b,u,f,d
TriSlashWave: b,B,f,B
Prism+Varsword is faster than any PA. Pass ←B→B, varsword can hit prism 5frames(times) first, only if wave don’t hit bossbody, boss wouldn’t be invisible. It can hit 3×5×160=2400 in all.

Walkthrough

This walkthrough is base on the chip’s edit. I edited chips 11 times in all in this tas.

1st edit. Airman

Get 1500Z*2(GMD) first, and buy the chips cost 2800Z. 200Z last.
Chip got: crossJ*2, wideswrdL*2 (shop) panlgrabP(desk)
CrossJ(600Z) and widswrdL(800Z) are very useful in the front of game. PanlgrabP is used for trade.
Used for: airman (slot: 5Vgun 9Vgun 2wswd 17wswd 20wswd)
Airman 300HP. 2×V-gun L30 + 3×widesword L80
Swordy Swordy(25atk 2wswd 20wswd 11 12)
Get longswrdL from swordy.

2nd. License tests B first 5battles.

Get 1000Z from airman, 1000Z from BMD. 2200Z last.
Chip got: longswrdL(virus), swordL(BMD)
LifeswrdPA completes.
Used for: LicenseB tests first 5battle
Battle 1 - Mettaur, Mettaur
Battle 2 - Canodumb, Canodumb
Battle 3 - Mettaur, Mettaur, Mettaur
Battle 4 - Canodumb, Canodumb, Canodumb
Battle 5 - Bunny, Bunny, Bunny
Chips used and slots:
cannon*2 13cannonB 17cannonA
cannon*2 atk*2 8cannonA 17cannonA 24atk 23atk
cross atk10 2cross 23atk
cross*2 0 2
widesword16 lswrd3
Edit: 0cross 2cross 3lswrd 8cna 13cnb 16wswrd 17cna 23atk 24atk
Pointer and slots(it is from the file which I dumped.)
66 13 25 17 12 19
142 8 23 16 24 17(Burster used, pointer+1)
218 +1 10 28 2 23 25
296 +1 0 18 2 21 4
374 +1 8 3 22 17 16

3. License Tests B: Beetank, Beetank, Beetank

Chip got: NA
Used for: Beetank, Beetank, Beetank(22atk 5Vgun 9Vgun 20wswd 25atk)
If I buy the chips first, maybe I could skip next edit. Maybe not, because too much atk+ used, and I only have 5 be used. The slots, 22atk and 25stk can’t be got in this battle.

4. License tests B second 5battles

Get 2000Z from GMD, buy chips cost 4200Z, 0Z last.
Chips got: spreaderO*3 atk*3(shop) rollR(mail) lilbombO(virus)
SpreaderO(600Z) and atk+10(800Z) are very important Get rollR cost 129frames, but I waited for the good luck.
Used for: License tests B second 5battles
Battle 1 - Mettaur2, Flappy, Canodumb
Battle 2 - Mettaur2, Mettaur2, Mettaur2
Battle 3 - Bunny, Canodumb2, Beetank
Battle 4 - Canodumb2, Canodumb2, Canodumb2
Battle 5 - HardHead, HardHead, Beetank
Vgun wideswrd atk*2 16Vgn 22atk 3atk 8wswd
spreader*3 atk*2 14spd 28spd 0spd 3atk 11atk
Cross*2 atk*3 2cross 24cross 3atk 11atk 22atk
wideswrd longswrd atk*2 12wswd 18lswd 11atk 25atk
longswrd Vgun*3 18lswd 7Vgun 16Vgun 19Vgun
Edit: 0spd 1wswd 2cross 3atk 7Vgun 8wswd 9atk 11atk 12wswd 14spd 15swd 16Vgun 18lswd 19Vgun 22atk 24cross 25atk 28spd
65 -0 3 8 16 22
143 +1 0 3 14 28 11(143: 13 14 6 25 9)
221 +1 2 24 11 3 22(221: 9 17 28 4 1)
300 +1 11 25 5 18 12(299: 11 17 5 18 12, 300: 6 4 16 19 1)
378 +1 7 16 18 24 19(377: 1 16 18 24 19, 378: 2 23 29 8 25, 380: 17 23 29 8 25)
This is hardest battle in this tas(include all future battles), because I only have the low power chips. But very good luck, I can use atk+ 9 times.
Bear: Spikey, Spikey, Spikey(0 22atk 15swd 9atk 12wswd)
Wait for one atk+, and I change slot9 to atk+(last one), 15 to swdL for quickman. Get important chip HeatshotB.
Quickman (17 8wswd 18lswd 3 15swd)
Quickman 400HP, lifeswrdPA(400)
I forget, maybe I waited 40 or 60 frames for 18lswd. LongswdL is very important to License tests B, it’s slot can’t be changed.
Mission1: Handy, Handy, Handy(12wswd 18 19 17 10)
Mission1: Spikey2, Spikey2, Spikey2(15 16Vgun 11atk 5 12wswd)only wait 12 frames.
Mission1: Flamey2, Flamey3(27 1wswd 24 26 12wswd)change the last wsrdL to slot1.

5. Mission2: Spooky2, Spooky2, Spooky2

Get 3000Z from Bomb’s BMD, 1500Z from quickman, 3000Z from robot’s BMD, 1500Z from Dan2’s GMD, 500Z from virus battle, 9500Z in all.
Chips got: timebomb1M heatshotB heat-vS (virus) poismaskS dashatkL spreaderP spreaderQ (trade) atk+10(Bomb’s BMD) spreaderN(koto’s GMD)
Now I explain about Detailed Chip Trade(3-c-t) and how to get poismaskS from it.
The tradechip like the battlechip, the sequence doesn't change while viewing the folder. I got 5 chips in the 3-c-t. poismaskW(6B 22 84400) poismaskS(6B 18 84644) dashatkL(32 11 84944) spreaderQ(7 16 85178) spreaderP(7 15 85458)
Note: I made these 5 chip_trade_dump_lists (ID code frame), and I can be easily to search the chip which I need. You can see the ID and code list from MMBN2 Save State Hacking Guide, because this ID is not equal to the library’s ID.
Why did I get poismaskW first?
If I haven’t poimask chip or it’s ID(library’s ID), I only got poimaskW from 3-c-t. So I have to get poimaskW first. You can find the chip list changes simply after got poimaskW from my dump lists. In the first list, you only find poismaskW(6B 22). It’s seemed that Capcom didn’t hope we get VarSwrdB easily.
Why did I use chip trade early or later? It’s seemed walking a little long.
Because poimask is very rare. I have to wait more than 1000 frames at other time.
Used for: Mission2: Spooky2, Spooky2, Spooky2 (0Vgun 16Vgun 3atk 18lswd 22atk)
Too much 0 is beside this pointer. I have to edit again.
LicenseA tests first 5battle
Battle 1 - Swordy, HardHead
Battle 2 - Spooky, Spooky2, Spooky2
Battle 3 - Handy, Handy, Handy
Battle 4 - Fishy, Fishy, Beetank
Battle 5 - Flappy, Flappy, Flappy
ballB ballB cannB atk
spd*2 atk*2
spd*3
dashL
dashL atk
Edit: 3atk 4ball 5spd 6dash 7cann 8atk 9atk 11atk spd24 spd26 29ball
1 29 1 8 7 4(+1 23 1 20 10 4)
78 24 11 3 27 26(77: 4 21 18 22 8, 79: 4 21 22 18 8)
156 +1 24 1 19 5 26(156: 9 1 4 6 18)
240 +1 10 11 6 3 14(240: 20 5 18 3 8)
320 +2 12 13 14 9 6(320 +1 19 26 27 22 0)
I have no idea about beat Hardhead. Get BrnzFist B or S? But getting BrnzFist cost more than 480 frames(240 from 2 BMD, 250 from chip trader), 8seconds. And I don’t think BrnzFist is usefull in the future. Because I have varswd, or later SilvFist.
Swordy, Swordy2, Swordy(3atk 29 20wswd 0Vgun 17wswd)
Mettaur2, Mettaur2, MettFire(16Vgun 25 13 17wswd 2wswd)
Taking damage to reduce the level, and get the important chip Guard* from mettaur2 for giving to Jim in the future.

6. License tests A second 5battles

Cost 9000Z to buy chips, last 500Z
Chips got: Invis2* fireswrdN Guard*(virus) cross* spreaderM(bug shop) fire40*3(shop)
License tests A second 5battles
Battle 1 - Sparky
Battle 2 - Spikey2, Spikey, WindBox
Battle 3 - Shrimpy, Shrimpy
Battle 4 - TuffBunny, TuffBunny, TuffBunny
Battle 5 - Sparky, Swordy, MettFire
lswd atk*2
Vgun*2 wswd atk
dash atk
wswd*2
cross wswrd*2
Edit: 0Vgun 1atk 2wsrd 3atk 4Vgun 5cross 6atk 17wswd 18lswd 20wswd 23dash (15Q 21P 7O 12N 29M, 5 spreader for cutman)
64 18 24 2 6 1(+1 5 17 21 12 29)
135 0 2 3 6 4(+1 0 15 27 17 4)
225 0 16 3 23 19(+1 0 7 17 13 24, +5 0 7 17 13 26)
313 2 23 12 8 17(+1 25 19 10 5 12, +2 2 23 12 8 1, +5 25 17 10 5 8)
403 5 20 29 9 17(+1 24 29 20 12 22, +3 24 29 17 12 22, +4 5 20 6 9 17)
In fact, License test A is too much easier than B.
Cutman (15Q 21P 7O 12N 29M)
Cutman 600HP (M-BurstPA 1000)

7 Chng.bat

Chip got: varswordB
Edit: 0htshot 1fire+40 2vswd 8heatV 10fire+40 16atk (3Q 22P 23O 13N 24M)
Spooky3, Spooky3(20 1fire+40 10fire+40 8heatV 4)
TuffBunny, TuffBunny, MettFire(0hshot 10fire+40 2varswd 7 16)
Get the important chip ZapRing2B from tuffbunny.
Swordy3, Spooky2, Spooky2(0hshot 2varswd 5 9 17)
Mettaur2, TuffBunny, MettFire (18 2vswd 8 1 7)
Get the second ZapRing2B.
Square: Goofball300HP(7 3 2vswd 8 17)
Shadowman (3Q 22P 23O 13N 24M)
Shadowman 800HP(M-BurstPA 1000)

8 Thunderman

Be robbed, money 0Z.
Chip got: Invis3W ZapRing2B×2 Invis2*(virus) firebladeR(Talk to the old man Official) roll2R(story) Quake2 W TreeBom1 * SonicWav I(Mr. Higsby)
Thunderman(13N 14O 18 3Q 16P 24M 6)
Thunderman 700HP(M-BurstPA 1000)
Passport: HardHead2, HardHead2, FullFire(0 7 2varswd 5 2 13 3)

9 Snakeman

Chip got: Meteor12C(virus)
Snakeman(20N 8O 21 4Q 16P 9M 2)
Snakeman 600HP(M-Burst)

10 10-chip-trader

Chip got: prismB×2 varswordB
I got 2 prism B from 10-c-t, because the more chips the less edit.
Protoman (11 27 3 14 0prism 9 2varswd)
Protoman 800HP(prism+varswd 160×6=960)
Knightman(0prism 19 3 26 2varswd 15 23)
Knightman 800HP(prism+varswd 160×6=960)
Magnetman(11 15atk 2varswd 0prism 6 5 26)
Magnetman 1000HP(prism+varswd+atk10 170×6=1020)
white ice: Mettaur2, Mettaur2, Mettaur2 (21 18 28 26 17 5 6varswd)
white ice: Shrimpy3, Shrimpy3, Shrimpy3(0 18 27 11 4 6varswd 25)

11 white ice: Dominerd, Dominerd, Dominerd

Chip got: SilvFistE(story)
Edit: 7->4heatshot 5->Blank(prism) 3->Blank(silvfist) 1->17fire+40 19zapringB->Blank 11->12atk 0->18prism
white ice: Dominerd, Dominerd, Dominerd(20 17 13 3silvfist 26 29 2)
red ice: Handy2, Handy2, Handy2 (14 12 15 24 3sfist 11 23)
red ice: Ratty2, Ratty2, Ratty2(22 11 4 12 2varswd 23 20)
red ice: Cloudy, Cloudy, Cloudy(0 7 2 21 4hshot 10fire+40 6varswd)
red ice: Swordy2, Swordy2, Swordy2(4 20 12 17 3 29 2varswd)
red ice: Shrimpy3, Shrimpy3, Shrimpy3(6varswd 23 25 10 24 17 3)
yellow ice: Fishy2, Fishy2, Fishy2(1 17 10 6varswd 4 21 3)
yellow ice: Beetank2, Beetank2, Beetank2(19 26 5 27 8 20 2varswd)
yellow ice: Flappy2, Flappy2, Flappy2(24atk 10 15atk 3 5 6varswd 28)
Null&Void, Null&Void, Null&Void(17fire+40 26 11 2varswd 4hshot 5 16)
yellow ice: Flappy3, Flappy3, Flappy3(13 6varswd 17fire+40 27 4hshot 21 7)
yellow ice: Fishy2, Fishy2, Fishy2 (5 1 27 16 25 29 2varswd)
yellow ice: Flamey3, Flamey3, Flamey3(24atk 7 22atk 3slivfist 8 4 21)
FreezeMan(14 7 26 21zapr 5prism 17 6varswd)
Freezeman 1000HP(zapr+prism+varswd 30×4+160×6=1080)
airman quickman cutman
07 2varswd 18prism 0 7 21 1 13
119+1 3 29 19 5prism 24 2varswd 10
231+1 0 7 2varswd 19 26 5prism 10
knightman magnetman freezeman
07 27 28 19 6varswd 13 5prism 11(burst hits prism once, pointer +2)
119+7 27 21 15atk 3 2varswd 18prism 10
231+7 8 26 21zapr 29 5prism 2varswd 14
fake Bass(29 3 22atk 18prism 1 19 6varswd)
Fake Bass 1000HP(prism+varswd+atk 170×6=1020)
Gospel(5prism 29 2varswd 12atk 8 22atk 6varswd)
Gospel 2000HP(prism+varswd*2+atk*2 160*6+180*6=2040)
klmz: I think this movie is acceptable in this current status:
  • The audience has given positive feedbacks on the entertainment and technique aspects.
  • The end point of input in this movie is allowed according to the rules, and not repelled by the audience. It is though required that the published encode should make past the last scene featuring Bass after the staff roll.
  • The author is not going to fix a flaw in the path, which caused a time loss (30-60 seconds roughly estimated without precisely testing). The flaw is relatively small to the whole movie length and tolerable.
I am accepting this submission as-is.
DarkKobold: The rules are fairly clear

The movie must be complete

Your movie should begin from the console power-on and end when the last decisive action has been delivered. There are no specific rules for an exact endpoint but it must adhere to the following rules:
  • It must beat the game.
  • It must be able to reach the credits or end screen without the viewer needing to do anything; all input must come solely from the input file (e.g. configuring the emulator to autofire after the end of playback is not allowed). An exception has been made for Rygar.
I'm not sure why Rygar got an exception. However, there is no need for this exception to occur, especially for this movie. Thus, I'm replacing the submission file with the one that completes the game, and leaving klmz's decision intact. All future movies will use the same end-point for comparison.
Dacicus: I'll publish this.

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Posted: 12/2/2011 10:49 PM
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TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15575
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #3385: mtvf1's GBA Megaman Battle Network 2 in 1:40:14.35
Posted: 12/3/2011 2:21 AM
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keatsta
Joined: 12/30/2009
Posts: 49
Woah awesome, had no idea this was coming out. Any chance of an encode?
Posted: 12/3/2011 2:29 AM
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hegyak
Editor
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
I watched some WIPs on the forum did I miss something in between WIP 2 and now? Guess so. I will watch this later.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Posted: 12/3/2011 8:12 AM
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Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Ooh, interesting. Will watch this later. I've been waiting for this for a long time.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 12/3/2011 9:39 AM
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Toothache
Active player (279)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Lucky TAS of 2013
Great stuff. Good planning, fast execution. What more needs to be said? Yes vote from me.
Posted: 12/3/2011 11:03 AM
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Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Watched it. Very nice, it's much more entertaining to watch than MMBN1 because there are much more battles. Yes vote. Also, here are some screenshots I took while watching:
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 12/3/2011 1:54 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
hegyak wrote:
I watched some WIPs on the forum did I miss something in between WIP 2 and now? Guess so.
Yeah, when mtvf1 didn't respond to the thread for a week, I figured it was to take a break, not to continue working at the same pace in secret. :P I agree that the greater density of battles helps stave off the boredom of watching the Mega brothers run through more mazes. It's best in the first half, where the dreaded license exam gauntlets take a variety of chip combinations to get through quickly. But even in the latter half, I like that mtvf1 had multiple ways to get instant wins. It looks like going back to Netopia in the real world to begin the hunt for ice block cures was a good idea, seeing how many times you were able to simply jack out and back in to Ms. Millions' bag to reset MegaMan's position there. That whole FreezeMan.exe quest makes the road to BombMan.exe look like nothing! I also got a little annoyed by how many times Lan was forced to run all the way to the Okuden campsite again, as if we didn't see enough of him running diagonally through the Government Complex in the first game. I think they could have kept that place a side-quest-only area after QuickMan. Oh, and I spotted at least one error in clearing the dialogues: mtvf1 didn't know you can clear the bees at the campground with Start once you have everything, and it was too late to fix by the time I mentioned it, so that cost a few seconds. mtvf1 also admitted that MegaMan may have collected more copies of certain chips than he really needed, as some planned chip trades didn't work out as expected, but I'm sure that it doesn't add up to anything worse than the cumulative tiny mistakes in my Battle Network 1 run. :) By the way, for anyone who hasn't played this game, the deal with the QuickMan.exe areas is that they're full of invisible dead ends, where if you try to pass over one, you're treated to a 5-second cutscene of the floor exploding in front of you. Therefore a good speedrunner will appear to be taking a circuitous path through what looks like a clear area, but isn't. Then the "WoodCustom" Style that MegaMan changes into is a power-up of a semi-random nature that you're supposed to receive in a random battle before taking on ShadowMan.exe, and then again after every few hundred battles, but mtvf1 delayed it until after ShadowMan.exe by skipping the secret forced random battle in Mother Comp1 via the glitch described. The "Custom" part is the reason MegaMan begins receiving 7 chips at the beginning of each battle. I don't believe mtvf1 ever took advantage of the Wood elemental power, though.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/3/2011 6:30 PM
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hegyak
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Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
Finished watching this run. Why didn't you do the ending cutscene? I know the credits are done, but what about that last scene? Either way, Yes vote.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Posted: 12/3/2011 7:51 PM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Because the set of 5 battles do not have down time in between, the folder has to be stacked entirely beforehand using many different chips, making it hard to tell how many chips need gathered early on in the run. These are definitely a difficult problem to optimize, but the result is executed pretty well. He also stacks the folder a single time for multiple separate battles in a row, using different chips per battle, which is optimal. All the money and chips he collect need to pay off; I'm not sure that's entirely true. Maybe he overgathered a bit to make optimizing the battles easier? (A couple times, he spends well over 5 seconds to grab certain chips that are hard to judge whether they are worthwhile or not.) This is especially hard to judge in the first half of the run. I get the feeling this run doesn't always choose chips to gather optimally in the first half of the run, but I do think it does a good enough job. The later half is pretty straightforward with VarSword + Prism. I also really can't judge the optimality of sequences of events. (I'm not sure how many optional things he did to gather chips really because I don't remember the required events well.) This run definitely presents some creative solutions to battles. M Burst especially seems to be a really good way to avoid stunning bosses early on, but I'm curious how much time it actually cost to collect the chips for the whole P.A. A Save + Quit at a strategic point could probably optimize the chip trader sequence a bit better, as in Bag's MMBN1 run. Actually, the point the reset needs to occur may be ridiculously early in the run though, so it may be impractical. (In response to the post above, the last cutscenes have manual text scrolling I'm pretty sure. You wouldn't be able to read most of it anyway.) This run is a solid (maybe better than solid, I can't tell that well...) execution with some creative strategies. Thank you for completing this run. Definitely worth publishing in my opinion. Yes vote. =) Do a MMBN3 100% run next! =P EDIT: Also, this run does not clear the Bass dialog at the end. I think it should, and perhaps end input on the completion time screen.
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Posted: 12/3/2011 10:05 PM
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Squ4ll-
Joined: 11/28/2004
Posts: 138
Love the game, loved the run, yes vote from me:)
The best time you have is the time you share with other people.
Posted: 12/4/2011 2:40 AM
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System_Error
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 109
Kirkq wrote:
Do a MMBN3 100% run next! =P
Wouldn't that end up worse in regards to just running around a lot? I played 1 and 2, but stopped playing 3 as soon as I got to this dishwasher, but instead of going into the dishwasher, had to go back and forth between two places repeatedly while doing scavenger hunts. So I was like "screw that noise". I'd say 100% might make it more interesting, but because they have multiple versions you can't get 100%. ...screw it, MMBN3 next anyway. There's probably some TAS-only way to make it our bitch, too. On another note, I find it amusing how MMBN1 and MMBN2 have two completely different styles of author commentary. MMBN1 has probably the greatest mini plot-summary and/or most thoroughest explanation ever, whereas here we have what looks to be raw numbers and mathematical formulas.
Posted: 12/4/2011 3:06 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
You know, MegaMan Battle Network 3 is still the only game in this series that anyone's done a speedrun of for Speed Demos Archive. It would be interesting to compare how much the emulator tools would change what the best strategies are. If no one has started encoding this MMBN2 run yet, I'll begin recording some quick and dirty YouTube videos now so that everyone can watch more easily. Now, while reviewing the run, I started wondering something: Is there reason that, at the very beginning of the FreezeMan attack, mtvf1 couldn't have jacked into the Center's computer rather than Lan's computer to retrieve the RedFrag faster, since Lan was going to Dr. Hikari next anyway? It's been a long time since I played up to that part of the game, so I may be forgetting what's stopping you from doing that, like if you're forced to examine the first white ice block before you can break any more, or if there's an important NPC you need to meet that I didn't notice, or something like that. Hey Mothrayas, I'm pleased that you found MC Diggity-Do to be the best character in the game. =) I would go with the punching out the Dominerds, though.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/4/2011 4:46 AM
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Saethori
Joined: 6/26/2011
Posts: 167
When this run gets encoded, if the author would prefer not to include scrolling the post-credits cutscene into the run, would it be allowed for the official encode to press buttons so it doesn't hang mid-cutscene? Or is that technically against the rules?
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
Posted: 12/4/2011 5:52 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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That's what I did in the videos I recorded, pressed A after a message had been fully visible for 5 seconds. Only I'm not sure if I made the videos right, since I just uploaded one a few hours ago, but YouTube says it's "still being processed", so someone else might beat me to it if I can't figure out what's wrong.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/4/2011 9:17 AM
(Edited: 12/4/2011 2:23 PM)
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mtvf1
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Posts: 427
Location: China
GBA TASer of 2013
What about stop move here? http://www.mediafire.com/?fgj9nl5vlss45rb Edit: If most persons thought that stop move after bass's dialog is better, I hope Administrator can help me reupload the move file.
Kirkq wrote:
Because the set of 5 battles do not have down time in between, the folder has to be stacked entirely beforehand using many different chips, making it hard to tell how many chips need gathered early on in the run. These are definitely a difficult problem to optimize, but the result is executed pretty well. He also stacks the folder a single time for multiple separate battles in a row, using different chips per battle, which is optimal. All the money and chips he collect need to pay off; I'm not sure that's entirely true. Maybe he overgathered a bit to make optimizing the battles easier? (A couple times, he spends well over 5 seconds to grab certain chips that are hard to judge whether they are worthwhile or not.) This is especially hard to judge in the first half of the run. I get the feeling this run doesn't always choose chips to gather optimally in the first half of the run, but I do think it does a good enough job. The later half is pretty straightforward with VarSword + Prism. I also really can't judge the optimality of sequences of events. (I'm not sure how many optional things he did to gather chips really because I don't remember the required events well.) This run definitely presents some creative solutions to battles. M Burst especially seems to be a really good way to avoid stunning bosses early on, but I'm curious how much time it actually cost to collect the chips for the whole P.A. A Save + Quit at a strategic point could probably optimize the chip trader sequence a bit better, as in Bag's MMBN1 run. Actually, the point the reset needs to occur may be ridiculously early in the run though, so it may be impractical. (In response to the post above, the last cutscenes have manual text scrolling I'm pretty sure. You wouldn't be able to read most of it anyway.) This run is a solid (maybe better than solid, I can't tell that well...) execution with some creative strategies. Thank you for completing this run. Definitely worth publishing in my opinion. Yes vote. =) Do a MMBN3 100% run next! =P EDIT: Also, this run does not clear the Bass dialog at the end. I think it should, and perhaps end input on the completion time screen.
If I have the Unbelievable luck, I can only choose chip 5 times, but it's impossible. I can't change the random number, only use the random luck. If wait more than 100 frames, I must edit the chip. I think Mburst is the best way to beat bosses. Do you have another good idea? As I know, only MMBN456 can be got the 7 stars(about 99% run), MMBN3 is only got 4 stars.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
You know, MegaMan Battle Network 3 is still the only game in this series that anyone's done a speedrun of for Speed Demos Archive. It would be interesting to compare how much the emulator tools would change what the best strategies are. Now, while reviewing the run, I started wondering something: Is there reason that, at the very beginning of the FreezeMan attack, mtvf1 couldn't have jacked into the Center's computer rather than Lan's computer to retrieve the RedFrag faster, since Lan was going to Dr. Hikari next anyway?
You are right. I need go to official lab first. I only test that if I need to talk to NPC's girlfriend first or not, and fogot to fix it. There is a tas about MMBN3 with Japenese rom. 黑(black) is equal to U rom's blue. http://nicoviewer.net/mylist/17016388 What's about next plan? 1 improve this run. 2 goal to beat bass, a better end? 3 other MMBN. I prefer to do MMBN5 or 6, because 3's varsword has too much power, and 4 can't be emulated perfect.
Posted: 12/4/2011 9:24 AM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2156)
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Oh, and I spotted at least one error in clearing the dialogues: mtvf1 didn't know you can clear the bees at the campground with Start once you have everything, and it was too late to fix by the time I mentioned it, so that cost a few seconds. mtvf1 also admitted that MegaMan may have collected more copies of certain chips than he really needed, as some planned chip trades didn't work out as expected, but I'm sure that it doesn't add up to anything worse than the cumulative tiny mistakes in my Battle Network 1 run. :)
But I supposed that there should be a started-over run when mtvf1 applied (edited after I read it?) to your post in the MMBN & MMBN2 thread.... EDIT: But anyway, I'll watch this one later on.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 12/5/2011 12:21 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Yay, YouTube has started working now that I've switched to the old uploader, so I may have some videos to show you tonight. Okay, it's ready! Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/5/2011 4:27 PM
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Kirkq
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Joined: 7/7/2006
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mtvf1 wrote:
If wait more than 100 frames, I must edit the chip.
I see. You changed the plan if you had to wait too long.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Is there reason that, at the very beginning of the FreezeMan attack, mtvf1 couldn't have jacked into the Center's computer rather than Lan's computer to retrieve the RedFrag faster, since Lan was going to Dr. Hikari next anyway?
mtvf1 wrote:
You are right. I need go to official lab first. I only test that if I need to talk to NPC's girlfriend first or not, and fogot to fix it.
It is difficult to make a very good route the first time TASing. I think you did well though. =) Also, the Freezeman scenario is extremely annoying when playing normally V_V.
mtvf1 wrote:
What's about next plan? 1 improve this run. 2 goal to beat bass, a better end? 3 other MMBN. I prefer to do MMBN5 or 6, because 3's varsword has too much power, and 4 can't be emulated perfect.
I think this run is good enough that you don't need to revisit it unless you really want to. I would rather see another MMBN game or a 100% of MMBN2, but you should choose what you want to do.
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Posted: 12/5/2011 4:38 PM
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ais523
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Posts: 1029
I've heard, from other people, that the "emulation errors" in MMBN4 happen on actual hardware too, except the original GBA. (That is, they happen running on a GBA SP, or a DS, too.) That puts it in a bit of a weird position as far as TASing is concerned, as the problem isn't even necessarily an emulator bug.
Posted: 12/5/2011 5:20 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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So the programmers relied on a quirk that only existed in the very first Game Boy Advance model for the game to run correctly there?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/5/2011 5:22 PM
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Noxxa
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I've heard that the MMBN4 errors on non-GBA systems only applied to one of the two game versions. So you'd be fine using the other version. Weird, I know.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 12/5/2011 10:06 PM
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deuxhero
Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 166
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
So the programmers relied on a quirk that only existed in the very first Game Boy Advance model for the game to run correctly there?
In case it wasn't clear from the script and gameplay, BN4 didn't have a lot of effort put into it (and somehow it sold the best...)
Posted: 12/5/2011 11:36 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Heh... I haven't gotten around to playing 4 yet, but maybe it got higher sales in Japan for trying to be "more like the anime", or so I heard, plus it followed a game that was well-liked, and I've also heard good things about its multiplayer battling. 4 sounds like it might be one of the shortest to play a single game of due to its focus on replays rather than giving you all the content the first time through the story. I mean, not every Battle Network TAS can take 40 minutes longer than the previous game, right? 6 is said to be a pretty breezy one too.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/6/2011 2:17 AM
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p4wn3r
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Joined: 12/27/2008
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What I know is: Emulation problems happen in both MMBN4 Red Sun and MMBN4 Blue Moon. However, they are more evident in Blue Moon because iirc there's an area where you'll get a black screen and a crash. However, if you use some Navi chips in both versions, a freeze will happen. I completed Red Sun on VBA and didn't notice any errors, but they appeared when I started messing around with it. If you run them on a DS, you won't get crashes or freezes, but the game will be very slow where it was supposed to crash. I don't know about GBA-SP, I assumed it was functionally identical to the original. I know the DS uses a different BIOS. Anyway, watching the submission...
Posted: 12/6/2011 2:45 AM
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zhangsongcui
Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 49
Mothrayas wrote:
I've heard that the MMBN4 errors on non-GBA systems only applied to one of the two game versions. So you'd be fine using the other version. Weird, I know.
Yes. It only applied to the Blue Moon Version. In Woodman event, you cannot encounter a battle or the game will be freesed. I heard that VBA 1.80, which VBAM(-rr) is based on, fixed the problem. If the author decides to redo this run, I prefer using the hard mode(a five-star save is needed) because the enemies have more HP. Sorry for my poor English:) Edit: Oh, Navi chips...
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