Posts for tensor

Posted: 9/26/2014 11:37 PM
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tensor
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 9/6/2014
Posts: 5
TheYogWog wrote:
tensor wrote:
EDIT: One thing I probably should mention: I missed one ring in the test run, but didn't bother fixing it - I'd have remade the run, anyway.
You miss 2 of them when you finish A1 with the lightning shield, is that the part you're referring to? If not, then you're probably already aware/didn't care because it's a test run I guess. I didn't see where else it might have been.
In the 'sketch run' for the (almost) whole AIZ2, between frames 13400 and 13500, Sonic leaves two rings behind, and one of them apparently unloads just before Tails can get it. That's the ring I was talking about. I knew about those two rings, too, but forgot to mention them. By the way, I did a quick improved test using bubble and the rhino, since I couldn't get Tails soon enough near the floating platform. Saved just over 100 frames, but the lightning shield was still 60 frames faster. Those three rings under the spiky log are quite a problem without the lightning shield.
Posted: 9/24/2014 1:29 AM
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tensor
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 9/6/2014
Posts: 5
If I ever got around to improving the bubble test, I would've tried using Tails there. And yes, with the lightning shield, Tails can get soon enough to the pre-switch area; that's one of the three improvements I made to the lightning route. The other two were using the light blue path, and starting the Tails carry from higher up, before the downward slope. Here's the bubble route: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/811955120/aa4.gmv Here's the lighting route, v2: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/307348212/aa4_lightning2.gmv Before I tested the shields, I had done a sketch for (almost) the whole zone using the bubble shield. The beginning is slightly less efficient than in the bubble test. There are some details that may or may not be of interest: -The bubble bounce didn't really bounce at one point. The effect depends on where the bounce hits the ground. This allows a faster descent, and may be useful somewhere, but not here. I'd like to know more about this. -I bounced through the mechanic stairs directly above the lightning shield box. This is the reason I wanted to extend the tests a bit, but it only matters if you want the lightning shield back as soon as possible. -Using Tails to get to the highest parts of the level might save some frames, if he's available. This happens slightly after frame 11750. -To get the five rings with horizontal spikes on both sides, I didn't use Sonic; I dumped Tails there instead. Probably saves a few frames and causes big problems later, since Tails is lost. And here's the recording: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1607364091/aa3.gmv I made all of the recordings as continuations to the one I already posted; thus, I didn't collect any of the bonus rings. I'll probably switch to newgame+ in the future. AIZ2 begins somewhere around frame 9500 in each of the recordings. If I posted the same recording twice or something silly like that, I'll correct it tomorrow - the file names don't really help much in finding the correct file. I should get some sleep now. EDIT: One thing I probably should mention: I missed one ring in the test run, but didn't bother fixing it - I'd have remade the run, anyway.
Posted: 9/16/2014 10:16 PM
(Edited: 9/17/2014 6:48 PM)
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tensor
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 9/6/2014
Posts: 5
I wondered how much time could be shaved off that part of the recording when I was done with it, so it was nice to see the optimized version. I don't think I'd actively take part in creating a run. It would take much more patience and knowledge than I have, and my attention would sooner or later turn to something else. The later levels being much larger and less linear doesn't really help, either. I might throw around ideas every now and then, though, if I have any and if any are needed. By the way, I took a glance at the act 2 bubble shield/lightning shield issue. I was going to write a longer and more detailed post about the results I got, but noticed that I had assumed a lot more than I thought I had, so I'll just post the following: I compared these two routes: http://i.imgur.com/Na2WhrN.png (bubble shield) and http://i.imgur.com/LPkJdmK.png (lightning shield). With these routes, the lightning shield saved ~30 frames (more if the light blue path is used, as should have been) before the z-shaped tunnel. After the tunnel, the savings are lost unless there's some efficient way to get to the water level switch. I couldn't come up with any such method; Tails would take a moment to arrive there. I'll probably test using Tails along with the light blue path someday, that might result in a positive outcome for the lightning shield. On the other hand, there's still one later place where I'd use the bubble to save some time, so maybe I'll have to extend the routes a bit to account for that, too. I'll post the recordings, if anyone wants to see. I thought these two routes might be among the best routes (not only locally, from the beginning to the water level switch, but globally in the act as a whole), but that's completely open to discussion. EDIT: The lightning route was simply bad. With some changes, I got to the switch almost 150 frames faster than with the bubble. I'll try to improve the bubble route next.
Posted: 9/7/2014 9:29 PM
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tensor
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 9/6/2014
Posts: 5
Okay, here's the recording: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/50258790/s3k_ra_st_test.gmv It ends just before the boss of act 1, but the second part is mostly quite crude. The ROM used seems to be the same as in the Knuckles ring attack, "Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 3.bin".
feeuzz22 wrote:
hmmm.. i'm trying to imagine it, and seems it miss some little details (or maybe i just miss them ^^) but i'm sure you collected them all. Also I think it is faster than TheYogWog's try.
I wasn't sure what would be the best way to explain it, but the recording should solve that problem.
feeuzz22 wrote:
Good, the idea of the bubble, mainly for the rings monitor into the ground, for the second part of act 1 (the elevator), maybe taking the lightning sheild can help (maybe not, as far as the rings are very linear and easy to collect as S+T), for the elevator in Upper position, Tails can help, no?
I thought the lightning shield wouldn't save enough time compared to using the bubble on the elevator, but somehow I didn't think of using Tails there. I'm not so sure about the bubble anymore. Thanks for the explanation on the respawn mechanics, it may save some time in the future. I did some preliminary planning for Act 2 when I made the practice run, but since I didn't know (and still don't know) how to visit Knuckles's section if it's possible, I quite much ignored it.
Posted: 9/6/2014 9:06 PM
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tensor
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 9/6/2014
Posts: 5
Posting for the first time, please forgive any possible misunderstandings. TheYogWog, if you want to try some specific strategies, I did a test run for AIZ1 ring attack in early summer, and comparing it to your run, it was some seconds faster - the screen locks at in-game time 0:48. On the other hand, it wasn't newgame+, so I ignored the bonus ring and saved some time there. I began like in feeuzz's WIP, but after landing Sonic, I -spindashed Tails out of the screen (to the right) as soon as possible -visited the upper-left platform with Sonic while keeping Tails near the three rings between the 2nd and 3rd palm trees -used the spring on the 2nd palm tree to move Sonic straight to the middle platform just behind the 3rd palm tree; at the same time, I collected the three rings on the ground with Tails as they got loaded, after which Tails despawned -collected the three rings on the middle platform with Sonic; Tails had respawned and, by getting close to Sonic during the ring collecting jump, became controllable again. This might save a second or so. Later, after the loop, I -got the bubble shield with Sonic, while going for the three underwater rings with Tails -used the bubble instead of the spring for getting out of the water -started pushing the rock with Tails before Sonic arrived -used the bubble immediately after moving the rock out of the way, getting down faster -popped two monitors at once (IRC, not possible without the bubble) and bounced off the ground, and -popped the third monitor from the side (IRC, also not possible without the bubble) and used the spring to get out. I'm not sure how this approach would compare to using feeuzz's strategy while also getting the monitors, but I like having the bubble in the underwater tunnel of the second part of the level - you don't have to wait for the elevator if you have the bubble. I used a different order for some rings, but I'm not sure how it affects the time. Your run on the 'middle platform' as I called it was much better than mine. I hope that was at least somewhat understandable. I might upload the .gmv somewhere, if anyone wants to see it. You may recommend a file host, if you know a good one. I also have a question for everyone. I noticed while doing the test run that, as I mentioned, a respawned Tails can be controlled after he gets close enough to Sonic. I tried to search for information on it but wasn't successful. Are the exact conditions for it to happen known? Also, where exactly does he respawn?