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feos wrote:
Do you know what the manual-only rerecord count is, even approximately?
I had to think about this and I finally figured out an exact number! I have a ton of backup files and I found the last BK2 before I started running the BOT.
It has 109678 re-records in it. So, if you add 6472, which is the amount of work done to create the "Template" inputs, you would get: 116150 re-records.
This includes 3 "run-throughs" (after discovering more each effort on optimizing this game) and all the RNG input creations for the templates needed for the BOT.
Thankfully, I kept good notes and retained all of my project backup files.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Samsara, I'm really sorry. I found a dumb mistake on the last Cave that improves this run by 132 frames.
While I was at it, I removed that ending input from the bonus cave.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/75368131588809927
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
feos wrote:
If there's no manual TASing in this movie, we will have to nuke the rerecord count. We do that for botted rerecords so it doesn't mess with statistics on manual ones on the site.
The only manual inputs come from two different efforts.
1. The first round was manipulated manually with a different method before it was visible.
2. The "Solving" inputs were made manually, upon finding a desirable pattern.
So the only BOTing occurred to get different patterns to show upon the next round, by injecting D/ Right-Left/ A-B inputs alongside of the "Solving" inputs.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Zinfidel wrote:
I really rather enjoyed this run! Especially the second half of the movie because the game gets so incredibly hectic. You did a good job of making a game that might otherwise be uninteresting to watch enjoyable.
Thank you!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
FINALLY!!
I've always wanted to see this one done. Would have done it myself by now, but I really wasn't sure how to even go about C64 TASing or how to find the correct version of the game or anything. I thought about attempting a run of the GBA version, but that wouldn't be very ideal since the screen size is so small. And I even thought about running the Wii VC port.
Well...thank you very much. I am well aware of your effort on the NES and have watched it to see how the C64 and NES compare. As you aware, the two are dramatically different in mechanics and how the game runs the obstacles on each room.
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
But now that a run actually exists, I'm very interested in copying the setup and examining this for improvements.
No objection to that. It only confirms that I picked a good game for showcasing.
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
I see that you used a bot to manipulate the amoebas. I assume that the amoeba AI here is nothing compared to the NES version, which was eventually solved and found to be very deterministic (it had to do with objects touching the amoeba blob that changed its growth pattern, and number of free spaces around the blob that sped up its growth rate). So if I take a stab at this game, I'd be more than willing to try using your bot to deal with that cave.
How about this...look me up on Discord and we can talk.
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
I might be in the minority here, but I'd also love to see a full-game run. I know of the precedent set by the NES run of running only loop 4 as the "hardest difficulty", but there's a rather huge difference between the C64 and NES versions of the game: whereas the NES version increases the difficulty of each level on subsequent loops by loading the base level and running a script to make small tweaks (a blocked passage here, an extra enemy there, and so on), the different difficulty levels on C64 are practically entirely different levels from one another, requiring drastic changes to the routes and strategies. I estimate that such a TAS would take about 30 minutes more, but I don't think that fans of this game who have waited so long for a TAS would mind watching that.
This was a concern of mine. After talking with a few people on the judges thread, I treated this game like I do others...where I choose the most difficult level to TAS.
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
About the ending input thing, personally I would consider it a perfectly valid speed/entertainment tradeoff if the movie hits the reset button (assuming one exists on the C64, which I'm not familiar with) to return to the title screen and leave the viewer with the music.
I'm really cautious about following the rules. Since Samsara and the staff have come to a conclusion on the final input, I would certainly choose to end the inputs earlier, since I strive to find everything that is allowed by the rules to make the time as fast as possible.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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Zinfidel wrote:
BizHawk will also capture the last frame in a movie so long as it gets rendered, which BizHawk will do even if you pause on last frame, since that last frame gets rendered then the emulator pauses.
I think this helps out quite a bit. Thank you.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Samsara wrote:
nymx wrote:
Question for the Judge: Do the rules support a "dead end" situation like this?
I took a look at the run and had a brief talk with other staff and we're generally in agreement that the final input isn't needed here. It's a looping game with the final input leading to the next loop, it doesn't lead to an ending or credits or anything final, so it isn't necessary to include in the input file.
Ok, that is good to hear. So do you want me to remove it or will you handle it?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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dwangoAC wrote:
Seeing this mastery on display definitely gets my attention and my Yes vote.
That is about the best compliment I could have hoped for. That was exactly the reason I had to BOT that level. Sad that it was the only level that I could do that on.
Thanks man!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
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Yes vote. I like seeing the new content.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
One more thing...I find it curious that it happens right above the value 32768...which if you are at 33,000 it will count down to 32700 before speeding up. So, it appears that a 16 bit signed value is being played with...which means that it could be seeing "0" and not applying the acceleration.
I guess the makers never thought that someone would clear a screen that fast.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
nymx wrote:
Bonus values above 32000 can not be accelerated by holding "A". Only when it drop below, will it speed through the bonus. I never could understand the reason the game did this, so it contributed to an enormous amount of time. I predicted that this TAS would finish less than 20 minutes, until that problem showed up.
Have you already tried figuring out what's happening in debug?
No, that was so long ago. I started looking at debugging other games...maybe a year ago? But never with this one.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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When encoding a movie, does the starting frame and ending frame get captured. I often wondered this, since you start on frame zero, which isn't anything...so it makes me wonder if the encoding stops when it reaches the end frame, with nothing captured. I've tried to confirm this with visual queues but I guess I don't have a good playback app to look at individual frames.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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FractalFusion wrote:
Here's a very quick encode I made (720p60) with all bonus scenes from Round 3~79 cut.
Thanks. This makes it more fun to watch. I only wish there was some way to truly eliminate the bonus time from the full submission.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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link_7777 wrote:
Unfortunate that some much of the time is spent counting the score between stages.
Hmmm...you just reminded me of something that I failed to mention in the submission.
Bonus values above 32000 can not be accelerated by holding "A". Only when it drop below, will it speed through the bonus. I never could understand the reason the game did this, so it contributed to an enormous amount of time. I predicted that this TAS would finish less than 20 minutes, until that problem showed up.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I've been wanting to respond, but waiting for an encode. Is anybody planing on doing so?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
feos wrote:
Does anyone have a screenshot suggestion?
Tough one feos. Since this game is mostly recognized for its 3D map running, perhaps the first frame of an entrance?
How about frame 531. This would probably bring attention to any who have played it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
£e Nécroyeur wrote:
End input early! A 20 second wait is not so bad.
Thanks.
Interesting...this is very strange and probably keeps the game from ending early. I just pulled the bonus ending input, on frame 36541, and it times out...but doesn't continue. This would tell me that the input is needed in order for the game to cycle back around to the beginning (Cave A on hardest difficulty).
hmmm, I don't know how the rules would apply in this situation, for removing it.
Question for the Judge: Do the rules support a "dead end" situation like this?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
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I remember the first time you did this game. Absolutely the right choice.
Well, nice find. Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
and....as a late note, this run was entertaining to watch.
It mimics the basics of the C64 version, but the mechanics are slightly different and allows for tricks that I cannot do in my TAS. Plus, they have added a number of levels after the ending of the C64 game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Ford wrote:
So the original version was the C64 version and not the Atari 400 version? I'm a little sketchy on those details.
It would seem so. I didn't know it at the time...but it appears that the C64 prompted the creation of the Arcade version.
I know this is years late, but finally...the C64 version is here. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Something that I failed to mention in the submission text, yet I feel it needs a discussion.
The last input, which terminates the final bonus level...can actually be removed. This means that this movie could be reduced by 525 frames. The only thing is..the ending would have a scene that will be confusing...where the main character just sits there for about 20 seconds, before automatically ending.
Anybody got a word on the choice for this ending? Should we just leave the termination input in?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I may seem like the odd ball for liking a game like this, but this brings back memories of certain games that I played in my youth...only on the Commodore.
I can't speak for the routing, but the speed and control of RNG seems impressive enough for me to vote yes.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I love this game...although I played it on the Commodore 64 growing up. I doubt we will ever have any excitement for TASing that C64 version, since it is 255 levels of sloooooow play.
Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Wow...glitchy! Optimized and massive lag reduction? I personally try to deal with Lag in all my TASes...not an easy task.
All this is a recipe for a Yes vote!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1786)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 859
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
feos wrote:
If you can pick difficulty directly, rather than via a password or a save file of prior completion, it counts as an in-game difficulty mode and is fine for Standard.
Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
