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Found the answer. Address 171 was being used to hold the speed of the cars. This is ridiculous, since it starts on the value 238. Since it is an 8-bit value, 255 would be the maximum it can hold. Well, it busts when it goes from 254 to 256.
Why would some program like this? LOL Thankfully, it was published this way and prevented me from having to go further with it. That line on 260, didn't have a limit...so it would have gotten faster and faster until something else broke.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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This submission puts me in a difficult position. It has been my experience that any IGT improvements would be acceptable, only if the last frame was the same or better. Sounds like a frame rule is in play, which negates the effort.
I'm hanging on to this a bit longer. Sorry for the delay, but it hasn't been an easy situation to resolve.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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zaphod77 wrote:
Yes...that is my conclusion...even though I haven't looked at the code.
I'm just surprised that it was from 9 to 10 though.
the error is probably here.
260 LV=LV+1:POKE 830,LV:POKE 171,PEEK(17l)+2:POKE 54276,0:GOSU8 460
at level 9, PEEK(171) is probably 254 or 255, and the +2 goes to 256 or 257, which is bigger than one byte, and can't be POKEd into a single byte memory location.
the increment from 9 to 10 isn't what did it.
that said, the game probably breaks either way at this point, even if the crash is dodged. Either that or fixing it will make the game endless.
Yes, your conclusion is probably right. When I mentioned the level change from 9 to 10, I was surprised because most coders would use a dedicated variable to store that. So, the tipping over 255 absolutely can cause this. Way back then, games were written with difficulties that humans could never achieve. So they obviously would have never know that this problem existed. The games were insignificant, so they had to do something to beef it up. Today, I'm glad to have the opportunity to discover the real breaking point of most of these games...which usually occurs on B.A.S.I.C. written ones. The ML written games were much more stable and didn't act this way.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I wanted to comment about the alternate movie you mentioned. I was thinking about the use of those codes and it would still seem that our rules would be against the use of it. It reminds me of how the "GT Codes" were applied in Super Metroid...which were rejected when that submission was made. So you did make the right approach. Thanks for providing it though.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Any progress?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
It looks like the score rolls at one million (based on Twin Galaxies records), but did you test if anything strange happens at maze 256 (or a similar point known to cause problems in these early games)?
Interestingly, playing for points (assuming that they can't be racked indefinitely because of a killscreen or something similar) would be very different than for speed because of the points from "eating" the cats as well as the bonus items mechanic:
linked Wikipedia article wrote:
At any given time, a bonus object is present in the maze and can be eaten for points, causing a more valuable object to appear elsewhere. The bonus sequence restarts when the player either loses a life or eats the most valuable object in the sequence. When all of the cheese has been eaten, the player earns a bonus and moves to the next level.
Yes. Different versions have various number of bonus objects to collect. I can't remember which ones have which, but I think one version has 16 of them...which I think is this one.
Aside from that, I usually like to go for fastest completion, to the point where difficulty doesn't increase. I have thought about the version you are stating, but it took so long to figure out this optimization that I'm not motivated to do a long category for high scoring. Maybe one day.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Sam_Underscore wrote:
Okay, I'm so sorry. I thought I had made a mistake before and that the judge was the only one who was supposed to add co-author. Still new to how this whole site works, I'll update it now.
No. You did nothing wrong. I was just thinking that you changed your mind or something else.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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In regards to DrD2k9's question...I have given an good effort here. I can't find another frame. This is frustrating situation, where any changes you make to alter the enemy car...affects your own route. Its so fast, near the end, that I don't have time to adjust the color for the track change. This is due to the game code checking the inputs every so often (around 8 to 10 frames), presenting no chance for changing them on every frame.
I'm not saying that ending input earlier can't be done...I just don't know how, if it is even possible.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Would you be able to end input earlier by finishing in the blue lane and this have a longer distance to travel after the last turn, or does the gas/speed nullify that possibility?
I'm certainly open to an idea. I will say this...that last level was extremely difficult to manage that enemy car. I basically ended it this way, because I couldn't avoid it any more. But...there has to be something there. I'll give it another try now.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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DigitalDuck wrote:
I didn't think it was even possible to get consistently perfect fuel spawns like this, nice job.
Me either. I gave it a short time and didn't feel like pushing on this. It was a good job.
Also...yes vote. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
I don't understand this. I clearly saw a posting here, early in the day, that approval for co-authorship was granted. I don't see Spikestuff's name on this and I don't see the posting either.
If you have rescinded, then you need to be aware that you will be obsoleted by another submission by Spikestuff.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
Can you explain what happens when you try to play Level 8? Does it not respond to any input you make, or just immediately crash into something on the first frame before you have a chance to enter any inputs to change the direction?
The speed is so fast that is starts to color more than one square ar at time. in some cases, it goes 3 or 4 squares. Because of this, i can't slip through the black enemy blocks, much less keep from uncoloring previously visited squares.
Because it is so sporadic, there is no way for me to gain the kind of control that is required to play it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
The error message indicates something wrong at line 260, this controls advancing the level number variable "LV" after beating each level according to the code listing at the end of the magazine you link to. Perhaps it doesn't work properly when going from 9 to 10? (E.g. Treated as going from 9 to 0 or 255 instead, which causes rollover errors and places unintended values in the variable...)
Yes...that is my conclusion...even though I haven't looked at the code.
I'm just surprised that it was from 9 to 10 though.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Seeing some submissions lately, that have games within games, has got me thinking that my title should change. I resist putting "Flip Flop" in the category, when it is a game selection within itself. So, I want to make a note here that the game is "Quickchange", the category is "any%", but i suppose the title should reflect the game with quotes??? IE:
[TAS] C64 Quickchange "Flip Flop" ??
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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I know that I'm judging this, but I want to post a comment to say how great the work on this is. Seeing that this is a paddle driven game, the crafting of inputs would be much much slower. In my opinion, this would deter most people from manually attempting this run. So BOTing was the only option for such a long running game.
Absolutely Yes vote!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 852
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
Too bad the original programmer of this game never considered putting some kind of cap on the drop speed so that it didn't go zooming off into unplayability...
Yrah...what gets me is that the developer had such a big score board. I figured this would be an indicator of a higher scoring game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Winslinator? We need for you to address the 3 frames. Can you provide an updated movie?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Ok. Thankfully, these inputs synced very easily...except for one round. I'll replace, probably tomorrow. I want to review them first.
but! before I submit, I'm curious as to the idea of two submissions...One for NTSC and one for PAL. That way, we would have the bull back in it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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feos wrote:
The solution is very easy.
"Any%" is either shortest possible input to make the player win eventually, or quickest possible win with whatever input is required.
"Maximum score" is maxing out whatever the game gives you as a "score".
"Full completion" in this game would simply be maximum yardage since it'd be the main optional metric to maximize to consider the game completed the fullest.
I'm sold.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Ok. We'll meet and see how the staff feels about this. Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Ok...I tested out my idea. The game doesn't need input to continue from one round to another. This changes things a bit. For one, it creates an any% category that can have the first 6 rounds, barely beating the opponent out...while the last 5 rounds coast all the way to the end.
In regards to the maximum score choice, I'm still seeing that "Maximum Score" really needs to be pushing for as many "Drive Yards" as possible, which still covers the 11 wins you are shooting for. If you still don't agree, we can certainly discuss this among our staff.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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I asked DrD2k9 for his take on this submission, and he has made some good points. In fact...he just confirmed some of my concerns.
Yes, I don't see that maximum score has been achieved here. I also feel that it should be totaled against the drive yardage. As for any%, it doesn't apply here as well. I haven't tested to see if winning the first 6 rounds will suffice, if no more inputs are made. Can it finish the game without applying any inputs after round 6? (I will do so later , after work to find out).
Just note...we are not trying to find a rejection here. Can this submission be reworked to salvage your movie?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1777)
Joined: 11/14/2014
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At first, when I saw that my inputs synced...it only did so before the bull showed up. This other version that I'm working in, doesn't have the bull. Well, the manipulation of the AI has gotten to the point where it is not as optimized. I'm going to have to lay back and think about this. I may go for running this in PAL mode, but for now...I'm taking a one day break.
Please keep this on "Delayed", as I'm going to replace this with another movie as soon as I can.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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So it would seem that nobody has made any effort to find any other optimizations.
Alyosha, are you ready for me to pass judgement?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
