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What do you think about the following strategy:
**CPU 1's Turn:**
- Rolls 2+2: Lands on Income Tax, pays $150.
- Rolls 5+4: Lands on States Avenue, buys for $140.
**Player 1's Turn:**
- Buy States Avenue from CPU 1.
- Roll 2+2: Lands on Community Chest, Grand Opera Opening, collect $50 from each player.
- Roll 6+6: Lands on Virginia Avenue, buys for $160.
- Roll 5+3: Lands on Chance, advance to St. Charles Place, buys for $140.
**Building Houses:**
- Build 4 houses and 1 hotel on the light purple monopoly.
**CPU Players' Turns:**
- CPU 2-7:
- Each CPU rolls 11 to land on St. Charles Place, paying $750 each.
- CPU 1:
- Rolls 2+2: Lands on Community Chest, advance to GO.
- Rolls 11: Lands on St. Charles Place, pays $750.
**Player 1's Turn:**
- Rolls 1+2: Lands on Virginia Avenue.
- End turn.
----- END INPUT -----
**Final Outcome:**
- All CPU Players Roll:
- Each CPU rolls a 2 or a 3, landing on player 1's hotels and going bankrupt.
This cuts out 2 house buying sequences and the need to purchase a full second monopoly.
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So awesome. It's noticeably less laggy than my published run. Do you know how many seconds you are ahead at this point? I realize the emulators are different, so it may be impossible to track.
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Great work Soig. I really liked the run! Your entertainment value was superior to my run and you included many new clever time savers. However, reading this thread it seems that there is some optimization still to happen. I hope you continue to work at it and make a more perfect run. I really look forward to seeing my old run finally taken out!
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Looks nice so far. Do you know how many frames you were able to save over my run?
I only have a couple critiques in regards to style choices. Try to kill every single enemy that you can. This makes the run look really super human. Also, you should try to avoid meshing the two characters into one. I know it makes doing the run so much easier, but ultimately it loses a lot of style points. I meshed them together a lot in my run and I really regretted doing so.
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At least 60 frames can be saved on the level 1 boss just by reducing movement after killing it. I don't know how the lag in Snes9x compares to Bizhawk though.
In the top down levels, you can press two directions at once and then rotate the screen to allow for really fast movements. This is explained by other members in the thread from my submission. That will save a bunch of time over the published run.
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Not picking up the weapon upgrades kinda kills the entertainment value for me. Why don't you try to obsolete my 2 player run instead? I know for a fact there are plenty of places to improve lag and the top down levels can be massively improved by dual vectoring to increase movement speed.
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This is an excellent run, Saturn. Nice and glitchless, as the developers intended. It reminds me of the first TAS I did for this game, except you found a very clever way of letting Magus survive the initial lavos attack without an absurd amount of leveling up being required. Would you ever consider TASing this route out perfectly? I think it would be really nice to have a glitchless run on the site and would serve as a true obsoletion of my old run. You say that this route is about equal in time to the other one facing lavos right after frist 12000BC visit. It would be interesting to know for sure which route is actually the fastest. This one at least is considerably more entertaining, having removed almost all the leveling up sequences.
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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Question to Hero of the Day and Reeve, do you guys have any interest is helping Sniq plan a 100% route?
I personally don't think the underflow trick should be allowed in any of the currently published runs. It feels like a form of cheating, similar to the GT code. Additionally, I also don't happen to think there is an application for the trick in the 100% run anyway. Barring this trick, the currently used 100% route is still be best. The only changes would be extremely small, to re-optimize the route for real-time, if that is the goal. Of course I would be very willing to help out with those small types of route planning.
On another note, if this run is published, I would hope it goes under a different category. The any% category purposefully foregoes serious game breaks, as allowing them would inevitably result in a super short run and eventual collision with the ACE route. Remember we had an any% run that OOB into tourian? Should that have become the default any% run? Should space time be allowed? This glitch really opens pandora's box. I say keep the glitches out of the normal runs.
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Excellent run Sniq! You have truly mastered the intricacies of this game. Clever new room strategies were really a joy to watch throughout. I will give it a yes vote, but I do have some concerns. The overall time saved between this run and the 2 published any% runs is much lower than I expected with this massive route change. I was even estimating that a cleaned up Taco/Kriole route would match or beat this time. A plus of that would be that no major game breaks would need to be included.
If not using the old Taco/Kriokle route, then the route I had designed for Taco's new any% run would have been a great way to go. Unfortunately Taco has appeared to have abandoned the project, but the basic route idea that I provided to him was this:
Crateria to Brinstar as normal. Get powerbombs. Kill kraid first and get the varia. This eliminates 2 elevator trips up and down doing Phantoon first. After varia, grab his etank and go straight to ridley and kill him using charged wave pb combos. after leaving norfair, go straight to the mardia backdoor (as showcased in this run). The benefit of the backdoor means that not having the gravity suit becomes much much less of a problem. The would be very little underwater travel. Saved shinesparks can get you through the tricky areas. After killing draygon, you can grab the plasma beam and backdoor it to wrecked ship. Obviously if you can get 6 etanks throughout the run, the gravity suit can be skipped entirely. Compared to Sniqs new route, this would eliminate a total of 4 elevator transitions and possibly the gravity suit, as well as any backtracking at all. Maybe I am wrong and this route isn't feasible due to the difficultly in draygon's room, but it is certainly worth discussing further.
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I am not sure if a run utilizing the underflow technique would be in the same category as the two existing any% runs, as both of them are essentially glitch free. Once you are finished with this run, would you consider making a run using a similar route as the Saturn/Taco/Kriole runs? With the age of those runs and your ability to find frame savers all over the place, I am sure you would be able to crush the existing times without using glitches.
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I am very happy to see this run is finally happening. Hopefully another dual obsoletion from Sniq! I am very intrigued about this new route. Keep up the excellent work!
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This was an excellent test run. Looked incredibly well optimized throughout. Moonwalks looking sexy as well. Cant wait to see the final run!
Currently there are 7 published Super Metroid runs. When this run gets published, it will drop to 6, and when Taco's run is done that number will drop down to 5. Looking forward to it!
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That statue trick is pretty awesome. I guess it requires an Rtank to work? If so, it would probably only be useful in a 100% run. Though it looks like it would save 20-25 seconds. Very nice find.
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Wow. That energy and ammo management is incredible all the way from norfair to ridley. Really excellent job so far Taco!
Your energy management is so good in fact, you could have performed the entire run with only 2 energy tanks and the only slow down would be the kago through the spike in the pre-elite pirate room. Dropped 100HP on those suckers. Do you know what the total loss in time would be if you just waited for the spikes to drop down instead of passing through them? Having the extra HP may mean not having to wait for ridley's corpse droppings.
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Getting a little too broken for my taste. Going down this path will lead to larger and larger glitches. This will end up looking like a longer version of the glitched run. The published no-glitch runs do not display any visually corruption on screen. I would hate to see them fade away and replaced by messy looking glitch runs ala mega man 1. It is not nearly as entertaining as seeing precise movements within the normal bounds of the game.
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Now the question is how much time is saved during a run, compared to how much time it costs to enable the option itself.
Anyway, I am sure there will be some epic techniques that come out of this discovery.
Great job!
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Excellent job Taco. It is amazing how you were able to blow away the notion that the ceres satation/blue binstar areas were maxed out. Crazier still is how you mention that you think further improvement may still be possible. You are an optimization machine. Great run, easy yes vote.
I would love to see you take on one of the other Super Metroid categories. I think the any% non-glitched run is in need of some updating :P
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Looking at the videos it is hard to see exactly what the gains are from the shinespark delay. Does this grant the user one more additional spark? Is there a time constraint on the second spark? I am now brain storming how this could save time in the current runs.