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Small update: I managed to get about 15 of those frames back from the downstabs at the start of stage 1, and I got a better AI pattern on the bonus stage which saved a few more.
Paused wrote:
Ah, hoped your Arcade run would inspire someone to do a 2player TAS of the console version. That someone being you is even better. Looking forward to seeing how this goes.
Well my current prediction is not expecting much. The current 1-player TAS hardly loses any frames at all. I'm thinking at most this will be around 15-20 seconds faster. But we'll see.
Spikestuff wrote:
Going by Battletoads as the example. This will be accepted alongside the 1 player version.
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Spikestuff wrote:
The current TAS is also "1 player" not "2 players".
That's why I stated how optimized it is. Even with 2 characters killing most enemies on the first frame they spawn and generally saving time, only 3 seconds were saved on the entire stage.
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So, out of curiosity, I started working on the genesis version of GA1 with 2 players to see how much faster it could be.
The current TAS is very optimized, I'm only 180 frames ahead after stage 1.
Link to video
I think I'm losing around 10-15 frames on the second set of downstabs on the purple guys at the beginning. No matter how many re-records I tried using the change direction trick, they always dodged if I jumped too close to them, so I had to opt for a bit of distance. It still saved around a second just because Gilius is there to kill the top guy at the same time though.
Some more frames are lost by default on the first bonus stage because the gnome steals magic from both characters, so he has to be struck 5 times. I considered using Gilius's level 3 magic on the boss as a trade-off to empty his slots, but the animation is way slower in the port than in the arcade version. This is the only bonus stage where that'll happen though since I can just keep him empty for the rest of the run.
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I'm considering TASing this game, or at least giving it some discussion. Unlike its SNES Turtles In Time counterpart, this one is actually much faster with 2 players(the amount of enemies you can skip in this one is very negligible, and the stuff you can do to bosses with 2 players is ridiculous).
As far as characters go, Raph is by far the best, Don and Mike are kinda in the middle, and Leo is the worst(no damage). Don and Mike have varying benefits and disadvantages, so I'll most likely just do 2 TASes with each of them helping Raph and see who really saves the most time.
Character and enemy stats can be seen Here
Lua Script showing enemy HP values Here
Rejected TAS by previous author Here
Some vids:
Tool-Assisted Leather Head boss fight
Link to video
A tiny WIP clip
Link to video
RTA speedrun route with Raph
Link to video
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Spikestuff wrote:
mklip2001 wrote:
is there a harder difficulty in this version with any more stages?
I ain't going to check far into it, but apparently the harder difficulty is down to the switches behind the machine, so you don't have to go through the game machine settings itself.
There's also a video of someone playing (and confirming they're using) the hardest difficulty, however there doesn't seem to be an extension of anything to it.
The difficulty switch just changes the player health bar. (Thus 2 bars instead of 3+ in that video)
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Yeah, something to keep in mind also is Axel's grappling actually has potential to be stronger and faster than Zan's due to buffering it with his powerful punches and the slam animation being much, much shorter.
The multihit glitch wouldn't be such a downer on the run if collision worked more like sor2, that's why the TAS of that one is so fun despite constant multihit abuse. In this one it's kind of the same neutral down jump attack over and over.
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mklip2001 wrote:
Anyway, galedog, one instance I found of a questionable jump was at 1:20 in the encode, on the left side of the screen. Now that you mention it, it does seem like the margins on the left are not as forgiving as on the right. Others:
* At 1:30, couldn't you jump sooner to hit the enemies dashing in earlier?
* The beginning of Stage 3 does come to mind... for the first enemy Tyris kills, couldn't you start the back attack before the enemy is visible on screen?
* At 3:00, around the beginning of Stage 4, it looks like Gilius should be able to dive that enemy sooner.
In any case, these look pretty minor, and this is still a great first attempt at this run!
at 1:20, the amazon enemy hurtbox might be available sooner than I hit it(I doubt it), but there's really no way for me to get Gilius down there any faster after hitting the one on the mount.
as for 1:30 and the beginning of stage 3, your position determines where and when the enemies start running, so it's not that simple, however something else could maybe be found? something to keep in mind too is that even if Tyris goes down/right and hits that first guy earlier, it will take her longer to reach the next enemy on the left and hit him.
at 3:00, I'm assuming you mean the second enemy Gilius hits? the first one definitely can't be done sooner. As for the second one, Gilius's position was a determining factor in the top guy running again. But it's something to keep in mind for future reference.
Also yeah it's fine if argt isn't a fan of this one, but a completely different game on a different platform doesn't really have anything to do with it, that's all I was saying.
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WST wrote:
Wow, glad to hear that you are working on this game. I know that Gens cannot be used for some games because of the desync issue, that’s why I didn’t finish my Mario 3 (pirate game) run. It’s a shame that something breaks the determinism in certain games, and it’s nice that you can use Bizhawk, which I cannot use for Mario 3, because I use Linux.
sor3 is a buggy as hell game anyway. trying to keep it from desynching on netplay used to be awful back in the day.
btw those old sor3 TAS movies by gsaurus were actually done without re-recording, he had some convoluted way of doing it like making gens+ input movies and editing them together or something. so they wouldn't be submittable here or anything lol
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NitroGenesis wrote:
It was moreso vaulted because the previous movie has a 5.0 average rating (which the game's length likely contributes to).
Ok, but that was the previous movie, and this is almost 4 minutes shorter. Not to mention there weren't any complaints about length in the thread, and the responses were quite positive.
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Is "it's long" really a good reason for a movie to be vaulted? I mean the most recent Stars publishing is 3 minutes longer than this one. Not that I'm saying that this movie should get a Stars rating, but it's kinda like "hey everything about this is pretty good, but it's long so Vault it is."
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zaphod77 wrote:
Wihile shorter this version is overall more difficult. the AI is smarter compared to the genesis version, and the monsters have moves they don't have on Genesis.
Run RTA without amazing skill if you try the stunts that are so easy in the genesis version you will get murdered.
On genesis all you have to be do is be JUST above bottom and down stab and enemies try to dodge low. they are smart enough to dodge hig hin arcade.
the slow slice exploit also doesn't work in arcade which accurately tracks your swings at all times.
This TAS make it look easy. it's NOT. In non TAS conditions, most players will abuse the ridable animals and magic, and this will easily get you to level 4. Then it starts getting tricky.
I do RTA runs of this game. The timings are much less precise, and the same trick for down stabs actually works here, except you can just touch the bottom of the screen for it. The biggest reason why this version is easier is because you can skip the skeletons at the final boss, which I do both in this TAS and in RTA runs.
Maybe for general play the Genesis version could be easier? I don't personally feel that way, but for speedruns the arcade version is really not very demanding timing-wise. 01garland01 has the current Genesis record and I'm willing to bet he'd confirm it for you if asked, it's reset purgatory.
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I've considered making a TAS of Golden Axe 2, but the problem is that I really don't think strategies would differ much from the RTA route. Some possible differences would be never riding the mounts because the down stab is stronger. But any time that a mount isn't available, you'd basically be doing the same thing: damage buffering before a down stab or looping high HP enemies with down stabs.
As for 2players, it would certainly be longer because more enemies spawn, not at once, but in succession as you kill them. Character choice for a 2 player run shouldn't matter as the magic from both Gilius and Ax are useless, weak, and have slow animations.
here is an RTA route video I made and my current personal best(worst) RTA run for reference
Link to videoLink to video
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mklip2001 wrote:
This looks pretty cool; hooray for a 2-player run of Golden Axe. It seems like this is a lot shorter than the Genesis port; is there a harder difficulty in this version with any more stages?
This doesn't feel quite as optimal to me as the Genesis run, with a few downstabs that look like they happen late in the early stages. However, that's just a gut feeling as opposed to any concrete numbers I can test. Apart from that, the run looks good, with a bit of comedic timing as well.
The genesis port has an extra level not present in the arcade so that's mostly why it's shorter(it is overall much easier too). The only changes in DIPS are player health bar and credits required. I just left DIPS on default as neither of those settings would change anything(unless I found more time for Tyris and Gilius to beat each other up). This version also kinda feels slower and has more downtime so that's a factor too.
As for down stab timing, could you mention which ones with a timecode from the youtube encode? Basically, the player character hitboxes can't actually reach the edge of the screen so sometimes you have to wait for enemies to really get in there, as well as figuring out a timing that doesn't allow them to detect your down stab hitbox and move out of the way. The actual biggest example of this is near the beginning of the third stage where I keep using the back attack with Gilius. It was like pulling teeth trying to get other things to work, so I potentially ate a small time loss there. You also cannot run against the screen edge, it makes your character walk if you touch it.
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I started working on a TAS of this game with Axel and Blaze, but gens desynched it. I'll maybe try using bizhawk if/when I get back to it.
As Atro City has mentioned before, Axel would be faster for a few reasons. The multihit glitch does more damage with him, and there is some potential for serious boss cheesing.
Link to videoWST wrote:
it's actually even better than that now thanks to a discovery by corkscrew/eggbandicoot.
You have a few seconds of i-frames when entering the boss room, and if you use Axel's double knee on the boss, it tranquilizes his AI and lets you combo him with no interruptions. It's similar to how the double knee and other moves in sor2 stop Zamza from blocking.
Link to video
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Spikestuff wrote:
For future reference.
v0.0.4.02 is out of date.
v007 is the latest version from the location you grabbed it from.
For whoever is Judging this.
The specific version was used was the Set 6, US version.
That is the version that synced for me, as the author doesn't mention it.
Hi. version 007 actually wouldn't download when I tried.
I added the rom name under game objectives.
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Glad to see positive responses, thanks.
Derakon wrote:
There's a couple of points in the last two stages where you pick up and throw a box twice for no apparent reason. It takes a decent amount of time, so why do you do this?
Also, the horizontal elevator in stage 7 has you using your standard combo, which knocks the enemies down a lot. Usually you use the four hits -> jumping attack combo. Why the switch in this situation?
Anyway, it's a fun run to watch, and a substantial improvement. Nice work!
The box sprite actually prevents enemies from being spawned, so I get rid of it. The standard combo was used in certain places because of enemy types that immediately stand up, so it's actually faster that way than breaking the combo with the jump attack.
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well like I said, the emu must be paused before loading the movie or else it definitely will desynch.
Is there any other step I need to take as of right now?
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Hi. I recently made a TAS of Night Slashers using Mame RR, which doesn't appear to be on either the accepted or rejected emulator lists. The game does not work in FBA so that wasn't an option. I'm assuming it can't be submitted.
Anyway I have it encoded on youtube here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npfs5yUTqms
Here is the input file (emu must be paused before opening the file or it desynchs, mame RR is very buggy) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7PYdmtUJ1fia1BPbVZhRmY5MUU/view?usp=sharing
There's also a video of someone playing (and confirming they're using) the hardest difficulty, however there doesn't seem to be an extension of anything to it.