That moat door has been enticing players for like a decade and it has finally been achieved. It's all we dreamed it could be and more (even summoned me out of hibernation).
Congratulations on the incredible achievement! I hope this makes it into GDQ.
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I think it should have had more custom spirtes / other assets to make it absolutely clear what was happening was not a part of the original game.
That would have taken a lot longer to input though. Remember that it took nearly 2 minutes just to load some balloons into Pokemon Yellow.
Well it looked like this one only spent 2 or 3 seconds though in loading the payload. I don't think anyone would have minded that going up to 10-15seconds, that should be enough for a couple kilobytes? I'm assuming the bandwidth of the SNES controllers is faster due to more buttons and more controllers.
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I thought the run was amazing though the payload could have been better.
In particular I think it should have had more custom spirtes / other assets to make it absolutely clear what was happening was not a part of the original game.
I'd loved to have seen the reaction to throwing in characters from non-nintendo franchises like sonic and megaman.
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Very nice improvement. It sounds like the input is based on Tompa's so I think he should be added as a co-author. I'd also like to see a description of that crazy jump.
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It's known, and Kryssstal has a very nice real time run of the category, just that no one has remade the TAS yet.
Yeah I figured but I thought I'd point out the low-hanging fruit for anyone who wants an easy publication. It looks a little sloppy for us to have runs up that are slower than real time runs.
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The advantage of Flash animation is, however, that the quality is even throughout. Every single episode of MLP:FiM looks equally good in terms of drawing and animation quality.
Are you sure about that?
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@Warp
We already have a precedent of using a "glitched" branch for a run that completes the game while with glitches that circumvent the central goal of the game.
Typically that branch is used for memory corruption or major OOB abuse. These put the game into a completed state but the game doesn't feel 'beaten' since the central goal was circumvented instead of conquered.
That "glitched" branch basically serves as a warning to viewers that they may not find the game to be 'beaten' once it has been 'completed'.
I think publishing this run under the 'glitched' branch is appropriate.
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Nice run! I was pretty entertained throughout. A big potential improvement is at 11:24 where if I remember right you are able to double jump off the right platform and shoot megaman while he is in his command module which would save like 20 seconds.
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Here's my perspective from someone who doesn't have experience in the game.
The positive:
I found the run entertaining which would be a yes vote in other cases.
The negative:
Ignoring the problem of no verification movie.
This is what the glitch involved sounds like to me:
1) Tracks are unlocked on the cart for a certain game mode from a separate 100% save and a new save is started.
2) The new game normally has to go through all the tracks irrespective of other saves but due to an OOB glitch you can enter the overworld track selection map which is normally part of a different game mode.
3) Because you already unlocked the last map for that game mode you can just drive to the last map directly.
It's an interesting glitch but it does seem a lot like you are building on progress from the previous save. I wouldn't call this a valid way to 'beat the game' because you can only reach tracks you unlocked from the previous save. I think it's a borderline case.
Even though I'm on the fence I'd fall in favor of publishing because it is entertaining and the game doesn't have many branches at the moment. I can't quite bring myself to vote 'yes' though due to the above problems so I'm voting 'meh'.
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I thought it was good but it doesn't really do anything you wouldn't see in human play. I found myself scrutinizing some movements and wondering if they were really pushed as late or early as possible. It seems as if you could find a lot of improvements in the propeller antics but I don't have speed running experience with the game.
I'm not really sure if this is good enough for a Moon/Star though it seems strange for a Mario game to be published in the Vault.
I'd love to see some 4-player antics as well. If I remember right this game already has an impressive set of built-in 4-player "super plays" that were pretty entertaining.
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I'm a little confused about the new Tiers and how they intersect with existing categories and with each other.
In particular the Vault category seems to be primarily about speed while moon and stars are primarily about entertainment? It seems like those have overlap. So an any% movie that is patricularly entertaining can be both in vault and have a star? If a movie is entertaining does that mean its overqualified for vault?
Also vault is limited only to any% and 100%. This should mean there are at most 2 vault runs per game. Right now we have a strange "glitched" category in a few games that is faster than the any% category but does not obsolete the any%. For example in Link to the Past the "glitched" run walks out of bounds to the final screen. Does that mean we give the vault title to the "glitched" instead of the any%?
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Voted meh. If a game has speed - entertainment tradeoffs I expect things to be a lot less repetitive. The run felt more like a very good human playing and didn't feature much non-human play. I don't really think things were pushed hard enough and I'd especially liked to have seen more creative uses of items.
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Thanks for going into detail about the password glitch. That added detail actually did make this more interesting. This somewhat reminds me now of the "back in time" glitch with zelda twilight princess which also carries over some state from an attract sequence. I think there is an arkanoid run that does this as well?
If I had known none of the data from the password is actually used to set memory then I'd have voted yes.
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It was interesting to see the intro stage with all the weapons but after that the gameplay seemed pretty much the same as a normal run but slower due to the lack of dashing. I don't think that is enough to warrant publishing a new branch.
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Can't most of the levels be done without the B button? I guess the B button has to save the use of just 1 jump to be worth it but I'm not sure if it always does even that.
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I wouldn't mind seeing a run of I wanna be the Boshy
it's pretty similar to I Wanna Be The Guy but I find the level design and boss fights to be a lot more interesting.
Here is what a normal run looks like
Link to video
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This glitch changes one value on the stack, but it is by no means an overflow. The stack is altered from spitting out a sprite with index #$FF, so when "sta $00e4,y" is executed ($01f203)it stores to $01E3. As linked in the original post, I have documented how this glitch works very thoroughly here: http://99.10.160.182/glitch.asm
Well I did say it was 'similar' to an overflow since buffer overflows typically perform arbitrary code execution by clobbering the return address on the stack and it seemed like this is clobbering it as well.
My point was, "extreme" glitches are still glitches. How does one arbitrarily decide what is "extreme"? Just because a glitch requires more planning makes it "extreme"? Or is it by how the game reacts to the glitch? or is it by how the glitch interacts as a software level? Or by how hard it is to pull off?
Glitches are glitches, there is no magical way to classify them on magnitude.
I am not saying a warning shouldn't exist, I am saying that this "glitch" does not need a special category. Any% is any% and an ending was achieved via glitches. So, the warning in tags in justified, but saying it needs a special category because of the style of glitch is ridiculous. See above about judging the magnitude of a glitch.
I agree there is gray area in subjective definitions but we already have humans judging these runs on subjective content and the gray ones can be handled on a case by case basis. If there was a poll for this run I'm pretty sure the vast majority would prefer this run be published alongside the other run under a new category and the label that has been used in similar cases is "glitched".
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Really what define "RAM corruption"? I seriously do not consider this to be "RAM corruption". Most glitches in SMW involve manipulating RAM on some level, so where do you draw the line? Code can execute in RAM and does so in SMW every frame($7F8000 in RAM is the OAM clear routine that sets sprites off screen), so that is a poor argument as well. It is additionally unfair to call this a glitched run and a "regular" any% non-glitched. All SMW TASes I am aware of abuse glitches, even if it is simply using alternating frames to gain extra speed. And I am pretty sure the definition of a glitch is malfunction, which this certainly is.
No one is calling the other run non-glitched. This one is labeled "glitched" (in quotes) because it is dominated by a glitch that evades pretty much all of the game objectives. The glitch in this run is similar to a buffer overrun exploit I believe in which you are manipulating executable code as if it was data. This tends to be among the most extreme of glitches and is not employed in the other run.
While the "glitched" label is old, I think it is fine to use. It is there as a kind of warning to the viewer that this run will be using glitches to "complete" the game in an unusual manner that evades major game objectives. A casual viewer may not consider the game to be "beaten" as much as it has been "broken".
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Due to severity of the bug used here and the questionable finished state (no credit sequence), I agree this run be published along-side the current SMW submission as a "glitched" run.
This would be similar to the LttP "glitched" run where link walks OOB directly to the end room without "beating" anything.
While the distinction is somewhat subjective, in my eyes a "glitched" run puts the game into an endstate condition without actually "beating" it. To "beat" something means to conquer it or defeat it. This run doesn't conquer the game since it evades the actual objectives: rescue baby yoshis, beat bowser, rescue the princess.
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I agree with the "glitched" run being a different category. While it's true both runs use "glitches", using memory corruption to jump directly to the credits is particularly destructive and no longer resembles normal gameplay.
It is hard to call that "beating the game" when the actual game is bypassed. You're not talking about taking short cuts on the way to the finish line, you're talking about reconfiguring the course so the finish line is next to the start line. That is approaching the game with a different objective and warrants a different category.
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