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It has been some time. I managed to make an Any% TAS which has been published but I have also been working on an all levels TAS which doesn't skip any major parts of the game (unlike Any%). I've had this on the back burner for some time but I've gotten back to working on it. This WIP goes through the first 2 worlds which is roughly half the game.
Link to video
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Submission Notes wrote:
Technically, I could do End Cutscene Storage one more time to skip 4-5 and the game will consider itself completed but that doesn't feel genuine and after seeing the same thing over and over for nearly 4 minutes, it's about time you guys saw something more interesting.
Would doing the glitch to skip 4-5 result in the game playing the final cutscene & credits (or even just the credits)?
It does not give you the ending cutscene or the credits. The save file considers 4-5 being completed (unlocking it in the level select) but that's it. You have to actually play through the level to get the ending cutscene. The credits are accessible from the main menu but that is available from the get go and they do behave slightly differently compared to getting the credits after being the game (mainly that the "The End" end card after the credits doesn't appear when selecting the credits from the menu).
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I know it is very soon since my last submission but this is a different run, being a run which actually finishes the game. Despite that, I still managed to skip most of the game with this run.
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CoolKirby wrote:
You have good taste in games, SuperSqank. Every run you've submitted has been something interesting.
I thought the run was entertaining, full of action and that "what is even happening?" factor I like in glitched runs (at least before reading the author's comments and learning what was happening).
ty. This run definitely turned out to be wild and this is only the beginning. Any% is also completely broken and All Levels also has some wild stuff, I look forward to sharing those runs in the future.
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KusogeMan wrote:
can you beat the final level a second time to get the ending after the first finish of the final level? is the final level unlocked after you do the glitch? what would make the final level result in normal ending or credits? this TAS is really good btw!
ty. You can beat the final level again to get the ending. The requirement to get the ending is to finish the final level through the story mode which you can still do after beating the game. The glitch doesn’t unlock the final level. You can replay the final boss as many times as you’d like with this glitch but to actually complete the game, you do need to fight the final boss in story mode which requires playing through the whole game. Going to the story mode after this glitch takes you to 1-2 like nothing happened.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Hmm. We might have to discuss this one among staff.
EDIT:
After reading/discussing with staff, here’s my perspective (which seems to me mostly agreed among the staff that engaged).
While level select is part of normal play, and this glitch allows for accessing the final boss from the otherwise standard level select within normal play; the game seems to treat this boss battle as more of a level replay than it does completing the game, because there’s no internal indication that the game considers itself beaten upon beating the final boss with this glitch.
So since the game seems to basically be considering it as a level replay and not as actually game progression, we shouldn’t consider it as beating the game for Standard Class publication. It would, however, absolutely be fine as a goal for Alternative/Playground submission, and I’d encourage submission for that goal.
Alrighty. I already thought that it shouldn’t have been a regular Any% run at all but I wanted to make sure it would be ok as an alternative submission before attempting to submit. ty for clearing things up.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
SuperSqank wrote:
Basically, this game has an exploit where you can access the final boss from the level select after you have finished the first level which normally should not be possible.
Does the game normally need the player to use the level select screen to progress from stage 1 to stage 2? Or does it happen without the stage select screen?
If accessing the stage select is an extra/code thing that is not part of normal play, then this approach may be considered invalid for Standard class publication due to our current rules against using level select codes/menus to bypass gameplay.
However, if the level select screen is part of normally gameplay, then it seems like a validly exploitable glitch for reaching the credits.
EDIT:
SuperSqank wrote:
They typically play after the end cutscene but that doesn’t play when you play the final level through the level select, legitimately or with this glitch.
This makes it sound like the level select is not part of normal gameplay. So it’s likely not valid for Standard Class publication, but it may still be ok for Alternative/Playground.
The level select isn’t needed for regular game progression (the game just automatically takes you to the next level) but it is a normal part of the game which doesn’t need cheats or anything like that. You unlock the level select after the first level and whenever you finish a level, it becomes accessible in the level select and you can revisit any level you have completed. Later on in the game when you unlock upgrades, you can revisit older levels and access new areas which is required to collect all collectibles for 100% completion. Pretty much every level behaves differently when accessed from the level select compared to through first play through game progression. The level select isn’t required to beat the game but it is an intentional and normal part of the game which is needed for 100% completion.
The only unintentional part is exploiting the way the level select is programmed to access the final boss early. The game is supposed to block you off from moving through the menu beyond the levels you have unlocked but on the first frame the menu is loaded, it doesn’t stop you from moving down like it’s supposed to. This lets you select an extra level and as luck would have it, that level is the final boss.
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eien86 wrote:
SuperSqank wrote:
I have recently made a TAS and I am not 100% certain how I should go around submitting it if the run is even eligible.
Hi SuperSqank, I'll answer only based on the information you provide. We normally consider as end-of-game the cutscenes and credits that typically denote the game has been beaten. Given this jurisprudence, the fact you can beat the last level early doesn't not imply the end of the game, as you correctly identify. Therefore, it would not qualify into our 'Standard' movie category.
You may however submit this movie under a custom goal, e.g.: 'Earliest Final Boss Kill'. That would fall into the Alternative/Playground categories (which one is currently decided by entertainment potential, although this might change in the future).
Tl;dr: if you have something entertaining, submit it and we'll figure out where it fits
P.S.: Although we do not accept movies where parts of the game is skipped via level select. See: https://tasvideos.org/MovieRules, I do believe this is a special case that can be discussed independently, since the level is enabled via a glitch and not a password.
P.S.2: I just analyzed the video. It does seem you get to roll the credits, even if the final cutscene is not displayed. It can be argued that the have has been completed, although it may take some discussion.
Regarding the end credits, you can access them in the options menu. They are always accessible from there and it was the most logical way to end the run. They typically play after the end cutscene but that doesn’t play when you play the final level through the level select, legitimately or with this glitch.
I will also mention that when you do this glitch, there are differences compared to selecting the final level through the level select normally. Mainly, you skip the first boss fight in the final level (I assume this happens because internally, Drakken is considered a separate level to the Shego boss fight, with you warping to whatever level ID the Drakken fight is rather than 4-5 (normally, you fight Shego and then the game automatically takes you to Drakken)) and you don’t have any of the upgrades you gain later on in the game. There is no way to fight Drakken only without the glitch, you always have to fight Shego first before Drakken through intentional means.
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I have recently made a TAS and I am not 100% certain how I should go around submitting it if the run is even eligible.
Link to video
Basically, this game has an exploit where you can access the final boss from the level select after you have finished the first level which normally should not be possible. The complication this creates is that when you beat the final boss, the game does not consider itself completed. The game doesn't play the final cutscene or credits like it would in a full game run, the game does not save and as far as the game is concerned regarding progression, it still sees you on level 2. So you technically are not beating the game but rather, fighting the final boss early. However, the final boss is indeed how the game ends normally and when you legitimately beat the final boss from the level select after finishing the game, the game behaves the exact same way. No ending cutscene and the game doesn't update your save file.
The next thing I would like to ask is that if the run is eligible, what would be the most appropriate goal name? My best guess would be "warp glitch" but it doesn't really seem like a warp glitch. It isn't really a wrong warp but rather, it is exploiting a bug within the game's level select. The execution is as simple as "press down on the first frame of the level select screen". I just wanted to make sure I had all of the relevant info before trying to submit a run.
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I started working on this TAS around the end of last month and since I haven't made any progress since then, I have decided to upload my current WIP. I have currently finished the first 2 levels:
Link to video
I am the current RTA WR holder in this game and the run is quite neat. I am very happy with how these first two levels turned out in this TAS but later levels can get even crazier with more movement options and some pretty large skips.
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Just as a quick thing to note, my name is spelt incorrectly in the run description, both on YouTube and TASVideos. The link to my account also doesn’t work due to the incorrect spelling. (It has been fixed now)
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Alyosha recently console verified the TAS.
Link to video
The run is around 10 seconds slower on real hardware compared to BizHawk MGBA due to increased lag (I didn’t know about GBAHawk at the time). The run is definitely improvable looking back at it, maybe I will come back and improve this TAS one day.
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I have finished another improvement which is an additional 67 frames faster (basically a 13:58 flat). All the time save this time around comes from better RNG manipulation in the final boss.
Please replace the movie file with this one:
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638571965816319539
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As one final post, I am going to answer to answer the queries DrD2K had about the run. I have already sent DrD2k this response but I wanted to make it public in case anyone else was wondering.
With damage boosting, there simply aren’t many opportunities to do so. The main things which can hurt you are enemies and getting hit by enemies is a huge, huge no no as it puts you in the game’s combat system (which was completely avoided in the run). The only others things which can hurt you are stage hazards and there are not a lot in the game (stage 1 and 3 basically have no stage hazards which can hurt you). You don’t get a lot of iframes and lasers in particular can hit you multiples times at once. I don’t really see where else damage boosting could be applied to save time, I utilised it in every area I could.
Update: I have found another area in Level 2 where you can damage boost which saves around half a second. The strat is neat too. I managed to save around half a second in a full game TAS with this strat but I don't feel it's substantial enough to re-submit the run. I was unable to find anything else significant.
As for the cutscene thing, I mainly did rapid fire as the game detects both the A button and the touch screen as a valid way to skip dialogue (so the game can detect cutscene skip inputs every frame rather than every other frame) and it was a lot easier/less time consuming. Doing that and manually timed presses would be equal if you were purely going for skipping dialogue as quickly as possible, which is also why I didn't go back and remove all the excessive inputs. As for sub optimally skipping dialogue to potentially save time, that is a possibility although I don’t know for sure. Delaying dialogue skips in itself loses time but in certain instances, it might be allow you to manipulate lag frames later in the game to save a very small amount of time (I’m not certain about this though but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the case). I will admit that I didn’t really think of this (and even if I did manually skip dialogue via timing, this still would have completely flown right past me) but it is a possibility. Testing it however would be quite a task and saving/losing pretty much any time could cause desyncs at various points in the game due to shifted lag frames with various lag frames pretty much being impossible to spot until the game desyncs. It was very annoying to deal with when making the TAS (as a sidenote, every time I saved time in level 1 which happened quite a few times while making the TAS, I'd have to resync various other points in the run due to shifted lag frames). It would be worth looking into but it would take quite a bit of work (especially if you were aiming to squeeze out the most time possible), and this TAS already took me quite a bit of time as someone who is still a relative novice at TASing. If anyone wants to go through the process to save that little bit of extra time, that would be wonderful but I don't see myself looking back to improve this run in the near future now that it is being published.
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I have made an updated TAS which saves 48 frames. The main timesaves come from better execution in a few areas as well as overall better RNG in the bosses. One more tiphing I would like to bring up is that I did use rapid fire to skip through dialogue instead of manual timing, since you can use A and the touch screen to skip text, allowing you to input text skipping every frame. I mainly wanted to bring this up to say that there is no difference between manual presses and rapid fire. I do perform one delayed cutscene skip before the final boss to manipulate RNG.
This movie file is obsolete. See the one in the post below:
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638567204203857135
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I managed to save another 4.5 seconds. The main timesaves are in level 1 and level 5. I will update my YouTube link and my submission when they are ready.
Please replace the movie file with this one:
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638544039085934804
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Incredible improvement. I always hoped that this game could be beaten with 0 stars and it is now possible. All of the new strats are absolutely insane. One of the most enjoyable TASes I’ve seen in quite a while.
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I have an updated TAS which saves 17 frames. The main timesave is in level 1 where I quit out at the end of section 3 (instead of partway through section 4) and I use an extra smoke bomb at the end of section 4. The rest of the run is more or less the same speed (I think I might have saved a total of 1 frame elsewhere) although I have made other adjustments to the run, mainly adding play around in areas and altering my character usage in areas.
Please replace the movie file with this one:
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638536135518422620
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CoolKirby wrote:
Good work, both of you, and thanks for keeping YoungJ and I on as coauthors! SuperSqank, thanks for sharing your knowledge and improving the run. Alyosha, thanks for resyncing and improving, and congrats on achieving sub 28!
I saved 177 more frames using the trick I noted in the published run's submission text: kicking the last gray lemur (or two, if they're close enough together) to make it run instead of walk to the right. Because the level ends when the 20th lemur reaches the right side of the screen, this saves almost 3 seconds. Foosa Arena is now a 0:50 IGT, and it's likely it can go lower with better RNG manipulation in the future. I used GBAHawk so it's ready to console verify and have a judge replace this submission, if there are no more improvements.
SuperSqank wrote:
CoolKirby/JCool stated that they could get as low as a 45 IGT in this level.
JCool and I are different people. Unless he also said that, which would be a funny coincidence.
Awesome to see you come back and further improve the TAS. You and YoungJ did a really good job with the original TAS and it helped us formulate the RTA run for this game as well. This game has a really neat speedrun and you guys truly pioneered the run. I did know you guys were separate people but I messed up writing your names in my post. That is my fault, apologies. Thank you for returning and pushing this game even further.
50 IGT on the final level is super cool to see. Ideally, we would be able to get that RNG or better in the final level without resetting and without losing significant time elsewhere in the run but the RNG in Final Battle is definitely strange. I couldn't figure out how it works. It is possible to save more time earlier in the run but it could mess up the RNG on Final Battle. It is definitely an odd level to say the least.
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Alyosha wrote:
Actually with 2 reset manipulations i get an even better fight than the mgba version!
Sop i think I'll go with that one. Will post file once i verify it.
EDIT: new file: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638530569368963240
Please replace the movie file with this one.
updating temp encode, console verified
Oh wow, nice. That is a lot faster. I guess I will mention that I did actually find some time saves in the beach section of Island Getaway which saved about 14 frames although it completely messed up the RNG in the final boss and I couldn’t find a way to salvage it. I also regret my rating for the run now.
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Nice run. I’m not particularly familiar with this game but one thing I can say is that you can fully skip dialogue boxes with the start button. That’s the only improvement I can think of however, the rest of the run seems clean.
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Alyosha wrote:
^ Thanks for the detailed comments. Are you interested in improving the TAS? This run is short and sync friendly enough that it could be improved relatively easily so I don't mind just cancelling it.
I have made an updated TAS. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638530054286630870
It saves approximately 21-22 seconds compared to Alyosha's update. I think it should be a sub 28 when resynced to GBAHawk but even if it isn't, it should be very close. The main time saves come from much heavier use of double/triple jump storage along with not having to reset in the final level. There are various other optimisations and time saves as well. The final level should end at 1:38 IGT. For reference, I'll also put up a video link to the run.
Link to video
