So you went on a rant about runs using older versions of emulators, citing concerns that they are too inaccurate.
Just one more thing, I was reading through an old submission and you almost made several authors quit for asking questions about their emulator choice, in a much more severe way that I have brought up here, even including an edit of the submission details.
Why make such a big stink about me asking the same questions you asked a few years ago, let alone much more intently?
EZGames69 wrote:
This is why I originally asked why gens was used
EZGames69 wrote:
Also not exactly related to the movie itself, but is there any reason you used Gens rather than BizHawk?
EZGames69 wrote:
I disagree with their choice of emulator
Also in that thread, there's a great point from Memory that addresses not only that author, but the eeriely-exact problem here, i.e. "nostalgia of emulators"
Memory wrote:
If you simply prefer Gens due to nostalgic reasons, you will at some point be disappointed because we must rule out emulators that have eventually become outdated. Various other emulators have become deprecated for similar reasons.
And just like here, feos was the voice of reason.
feos wrote:
Evil_3D wrote:
Third, it's a shame to see how the work of Archanfel is smearing only for use gens. These nonsense situations make me think on still in this community and simply quit or work off the site.
Archanfel wrote:
So TASVideos is just a good place to share my works with people who also have interest in superhuman playing. If they are no more welcome here, i can simply stop submit them.
We absolutely cannot let TASers quit the site over a note in a movie description. Reaching this point means that we all have had a lot of misconceptions about things, and likely about one another.
Evil_3D and Archanfel, please do not quit the site over this argument, it will be resolved in a proper way, I've done it before, I'll do it now. I will edit this post with more insights ASAP, this was just the most important announcement I needed to make.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
I'm not interested at making any further suggestions or input because the reception to different ideas is always so hostile and rude, even when I try to make my tone light-hearted.
Sorry to further distract from the submission but I genuinely can't believe this is still such a prevalent issue on this site. Yes, Otaku was misinformed on several counts, but throughout this conversation they have acted cordially and professionally. The same cannot be said of some other people I quite respect in this thread who, instead of attempting to correct this misinformation (rules on emulator versions, edit spam), repeatedly misunderstood Otaku's points, refused to assume good faith, and captured screenshots to complain about an easily resolvable offtopic issue (if any screenshot was to be taken, it should've been of the Minor Edit button). To be blunt, this is immature, unprofessional, and not the behavior I expect of the modern day tasvideos.
Thank you feos for taking the time to clear up the misinformation (/genuine).
This is a cool TAS, I quite like ones that make good use of scripting tools to achieve near perfection. Meh for entertainment though ;P. Hope the confusion over publication can get sorted out.
Refreshing take. Thank you.
Not trying to be a dick but this is the most hostile and cold community I've ever been a part of. Probably doesn't help that it's so small and everybody knows everybody, but that's even more reason to be kind of one another. It's always like walking on eggshells here and even then usually that doesn't work. My many years in the speedrunning community showed me how toxic that community it is, but it's generally friendly.
At this point I'm just here to do what I do but besides that I have no desire to interact. Reading old threads before my time here it's clearly been here a while, and I've heard stories before I even joined. Clearly not very receptive to new ideas and pointing out issues. I've already pointed out that having the staff team consist of a group of friends with seemingly similar ideals probably isn't the best way to NOT create an echo chamber in situations like these (especially when said group also seems to make up the majority of the site's repeat content, and when the community itself seems to be rather quiet on making suggestions and input), or any. I've re-read my replies in this thread and come to the conclusion the overall response was extremely weird and off-base, but that's just me.
I appreciate you sticking up for me, as it doesn't seem like many of the active talkative users that aren't staff (25%?) voice opinions. (I wonder why. /s)
The whole thing is weird. Explaining emulator version differences and suddenly we're worried about my edits! Not the first time I've been lashed on by an assortment of people here sticking up for friends.
And yes, thanks feos.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
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Even though dive is still required at this point can I skip the waterfall and thus the waterfall HM and walk into the Elite 4? And if there's something in there stopping you as a sanity check, glitch past that?
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I was aware to look at it but from all I can tell there's a good chance it's not any faster than the current any% run, the TAS is already one hit KOing most if not all mons in the run after the point where you'd be doing the dupe glitch because guts + quick claw is too powerful, so the only time save you get back is skipping seeing the level up and stat shows if you go all the way up to 100. It could be interesting though for building a theoryTAS of the human route (making decisions and using only the tricks as a human would in a run but with best possible luck in response). It could be applicable to any% though if you could
- maybe skip ever getting quick claw? but it might still be faster to get just for the few fights until you get to using the glitch
- skip using pickup for free rare candies which also takes RNG delays
- in turn maybe fewer catches if you can teach all the needed HMs without zig and/or taillow? But you probably still need a fly friend?
- save time by needing less rng manipulation in fights for para + quick claw activation
There are extra catches needed for this run, so you may be right. They haven't really toyed with the glitch too much so I'm more interested in the tile glitches. There's gotta be some ways you can use that to speed stuff up. Might even be a worthy entry into ACE setup but who knows. Enter areas early at least. Unfortunately you still need the badges... or do you? Could you glitch past the blockade in each part?
Hell, even if you can't like walk past the blockades getting to the Elite Four, walking on water has to do something huge
You still need dive currently though
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Anybody working on the mail glitch run already? If not gonna start
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Appreciate the feedback!
Sorry for being a little too vague! Those aren't "cheat codes" in the likes of Gameshark or Action Replay cheats. They're in-game passwords that you can input when interacting with the NES console in the player's room. The codes cannot be found in-game but can be found in the hack's documentation and in the Discord server. They're all intended to be able to be used by anyone who knows the passwords!
The Woyaopp code that I input allows me to obtain x400 Rare Candies and x100 Pomeg Berries after talking to a Youngster in Viridian City, while the DexAll code makes the player able to search for any Pokémon on the DexNav without needing to have them marked as "seen" in the PokéDex.
Those are still cheat codes, moreso of the "original" kind before all the memory hacking. Like the Konami code! :)
Just putting a warning out there for ya. Good luck with the submission, very cool!
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What were the codes used? Unfortunately any sort of cheat codes usually don't make it past judging, but you were pretty vague on what they were.
As for the RNG, this game is based on Pokemon Fire Red. Since you're not sure how it works, would it be effective to use Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green strategies for that or did they change it (doubtful)?
The glitches were pretty interesting to watch.
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Inability to use dipswitches on the fly indeed causes a problem for games like this. On actual MAME they are just regular inputs and can be changed at any time, but when implementing them in the hawk port I thought that having a way to set them initially once would be enough. On the other hand if we make them editable on the fly, that opens room for potential crazy abuse like tweaking certain switches every frame to confuse the game. While technically that's a normal part of TASing (just like pressing Left+Right at once on an NES controller), it borders with abusing unintended environment IMO (for example we don't blindly allow passing all command line arguments to a PC game because of things like noclip).
So I'm not sure how to solve it in the neatest way going forward. Allowing it to be pre-configured before running the movie feels acceptable at least, if no gameplay has been completed during the preparation. I wouldn't even make such movies as save-anchored via movie tags.
Having worked in the industry and owning over 150 arcade cabinets, a majority of the games don't read them again until the game is restarted. You can mess with them all you want and they won't do anything.
This coincidentally helps your abuse concern. However, this also means we need a hard reset column in TAStudio. Or maybe just combine the TAStudio input for dipswitches with a reset, even if you're changing multiple it doesn't hurt to have the reset be spammed as a result.
That way it causes the reset needed, and even on the 1% of games that will react to changes with the power on/"on the fly", then it's a safeguard because you are forcing a reset with every dipswitch input.
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Ok...so the deal is, OtakuTAS has figured out how to change the settings, via the input file.
Just for future reference incase anybody else TASes an Atari game, I had to:
A) In a non-TAStudio environment that allowed me to adjust the manual dipswitches in the BizHawk settings, activate the service mode in the BizHawk GUI
B) Open TAStudio with the setting still set
C) Set the settings in the game's virtual service menu (virtual dipswitches) with TAStudio still open
D) In TAStudio, create a second movie using New -> From SaveRAM. This will be a junk movie as we are still stuck in service mode since we can't shut the setting off as the BizHawk settings are greyed out with TAStudio open, but will save our settings to a new movie. Why not just start a new movie non-Save-RAM? Because we need the movie .tasproj to be set up with the necessarily files and designations to expect a SaveRAM file
E) In this new blank movie that uses contains our current save RAM, run it for a few frames or whatever and save it.
F) Exit TAStudio
G) Now able to change the settings again, deactivate the service mode dipswitch in BizHawk's settings.
H) Reboot core
I) Open TAStudio again and start another new movie from save RAM, which now will be the wrong save RAM because it's clear but that is okay we'll fix that
J) Run the movie again for a few frames and save it
K) Now we have a movie that is stuck in service mode but has a good save RAM, and a movie that is not stuck in service mode but has a bad save RAM
L) Open both .tasproj files in WinRAR and move the good save RAM bin file to the newest .tasproj file.
Voila. The file isn't a save state so it's not stuck in service mode and just contains the plain save data from when we were stuck in service mode. This was a pain!
If you could do a tutorial video on this that would be nice. I'm not very good at reading words when It comes to steps. I'm not too advanced in TASing. (Repost because the other one was messed up)
Download the file I linked twice+ above.
You can then open BizHawk, go to Tools and open TAStudio.
Click file open. Then open the bk2 file.
Click a frame number, then click CTRL + A and delete all of it.
Then you can click recording mode and do what you want to do.
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Alright, I'll respond to your post point by point (except the double posting thing, I don't know why I do that), and tone is so difficult on the internet so I assure you I am not writing this in a condescending tone as you feel I'm executing. This one is probably even worse for that, but I'm just trying to be direct. Anyways...
Samsara wrote:
[overall post]
It's not FCEUX!
Not sure how many times I have to say that I haven't even begun the argument of saying FCEUX is inaccurate nor any desire to get rid of it. nymx mistakenly thought I was talking about that subject, when I was not (I was not even aware of the accuracy differences and tests until he linked me the wiki page, I thought they would have been much closer), and I'm assuming that's what was passed along and now we're all confused, including myself.
My point was solely speaking on old emulator versions (X.X.X.), whether it be FCEUX, BizHawk, whatever, which are already proven to be constantly changing and improving to further accuracy, making old versions inaccurate. This has nothing to do with eliminating FCEUX and is not a problem exclusive to FCEUX, and until we hit a point of near-impossible emulation inaccuracy, will probably ALWAYS be a problem, but nonetheless ensuring that runs are done on newest versions sounds like a good idea to (apparently) both nymx and me. If the emulator wasn't NES based (which is quite polished at this point), I'm sure I would've been right without checking... just as I'm sure you'd raise an eyebrow at somebody using an old emulator version on a core more susceptible to changes than the NES, especially something like Nintendo 64. I've lost sync on DS runs just from going from 2.8 to 2.9, and I don't know if I've ever had a Game Boy run sync that was made on a different version. Everybody knows this is an issue and it always has been.
Samsara wrote:
Honestly, Otaku, if you're going to try and suggest sweeping changes to site policy regarding deprecation of emulators, the best thing you could do is actually give us proper evidence for why it should be done
Download any run from several years ago and it will not sync, this is well-known. Again, not emulators, versions. I know you know this as well which is again why I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying as a whole and I attempted to clarify above
Samsara wrote:
while simultaneously keeping up long PM chains with site staff over it, wasting time that should be dedicated to the 73 runs on the workbench at the time of this post.
"Site staff" being one person (nymx), who himself initiated the conversation asking for my thoughts, who I've had a friendly and short conversation with over the past 2 hours in-between doing other things, with large gaps in them, through a measly 10 PMs, discussing 3 different topics. If I thought somebody could change site policy it would not be the brand new judge, and/so that was clearly not what I was after.
Samsara wrote:
You can also stop the condescending attitude
I don't consider anything I've posted recently to be even nearly unfriendly (tone is always difficult online), although I don't expect my tone to be butterflies and rainbows in response to the tone I was offered by EZ, which seems to resemble a lot of the attitude of some (very well known members) of the community - very unapproachable especially for any person holding any level of senior positions. Perhaps that is my reason for my conversation with nymx, as it sure was refreshingly friendly and casual. Great guy and judge!
Samsara wrote:
Apologies for that, I'm still working out the BBCode differences between the forum posts and the submissions/wiki. I was expecting that to be standardized but it is incredibly different (URL linking for example) and often... most times... confusing. The link to the markup usage guide isn't on the same side of the text box and is a different size, so there's been a good few times I got lost and tried to find the guide, and got lost finding the guide too. Lol. I do often make little edits to complete a whole picture as this is live stuff, but I'll try and consolidate it further.
Samsara wrote:
if you want to actually help out the site.
This warning should've come a lot earlier, to be honest.
At this point, I'm just going to be submitting runs and posting any necessary follow-up to make that happen (I'd rather not ditch the site entirely) and that's it, I'm not interested at making any further suggestions or input because the reception to different ideas is always so hostile and rude, even when I try to make my tone light-hearted. It's whatever. I enjoy doing this to pass the time so I'm not going to quit but I certainly have a desire to scale back my interactions in the community further. I understand it's a small and tight-knit community full of old friends but there are definitely times here where there's an overbearing sense of negativity and being an outsider/newbie. Nonetheless I'm aware my intro to this community was messy to say the least and not during a good time in my life getting out of an abusive relationship, however now that the dust has settled and I'm in a better place, I've tried to reflect my posting to be a bit more light-hearted. I'm disappointed that even suggesting a valid concern about emulator versions must turn into a fairly hostile set of criticism from staff members from both the issue at hand and then other meta concerns.
Hell, half the reason I even write walls of text is because half the time you say something here it feels like you piss somebody off or somebody misunderstands the whole point of what you are trying to say, but apparently that isn't working either. I'm just not going to say anything anymore.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Ok...so the deal is, OtakuTAS has figured out how to change the settings, via the input file.
Just for future reference incase anybody else TASes an Atari game, I had to:
A) In a non-TAStudio environment that allowed me to adjust the manual dipswitches in the BizHawk settings, activate the service mode in the BizHawk GUI
B) Open TAStudio with the setting still set
C) Set the settings in the game's virtual service menu (virtual dipswitches) with TAStudio still open
D) In TAStudio, create a second movie using New -> From SaveRAM. This will be a junk movie as we are still stuck in service mode since we can't shut the setting off as the BizHawk settings are greyed out with TAStudio open, but will save our settings to a new movie. Why not just start a new movie non-Save-RAM? Because we need the movie .tasproj to be set up with the necessarily files and designations to expect a SaveRAM file
E) In this new blank movie that uses contains our current save RAM, run it for a few frames or whatever and save it.
F) Exit TAStudio
G) Now able to change the settings again, deactivate the service mode dipswitch in BizHawk's settings.
H) Reboot core
I) Open TAStudio again and start another new movie from save RAM, which now will be the wrong save RAM because it's clear but that is okay we'll fix that
J) Run the movie again for a few frames and save it
K) Now we have a movie that is stuck in service mode but has a good save RAM, and a movie that is not stuck in service mode but has a bad save RAM
L) Open both .tasproj files in WinRAR and move the good save RAM bin file to the newest .tasproj file.
Voila. The file isn't a save state so it's not stuck in service mode and just contains the plain save data from when we were stuck in service mode. This was a pain!
Ok great. I've been wondering how this process worked. Its nice that you understand it well.
It takes 3 movie files (you don't have to save the first one, only reason for the second one is to convert the first one into a movie that has the SaveRAM as both movie 2 and 3 need that in there) but it gets the job done.
It makes my head hurt lol.
Oh and before somebody asks why I didn't just flush the SaveRAM and save a few steps the file sizes are so different I'm guessing it's compressed or something and just changing the extension wouldn't work. And this also sets up the header and relevant files to expect a Save RAM file in there which it does not automatically detect in the archive. So this is the shortest and only way I found.
What an adventure
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How about this. I just redo the TAS. this time with Power on and replace the BK2 that has problems. It only takes an hour for me to TAS this game. And I could have done better actually! In Ariel I didn't pick up too much speed on the skip like I usually do so. I'm already pretty salty about that. Tomorrow In the after noon I can do that.
Then you are just playing in real time and not TASing, which means this is likely unoptimized. I will say, your playing skills are quite good then.
Somebody else in a position to judge that can do that though, and nymx is probably better at explaining to you what to do from here and all the ins and outs of TASing.
Nonetheless, if you wish to restart, download my file, open it, CTRL + A, delete everything, and start from there
This will keep the SaveRAM where it needs to be but clearing out all the inputs
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Ok...so the deal is, OtakuTAS has figured out how to change the settings, via the input file.
Just for future reference incase anybody else TASes an Atari game, I had to:
A) In a non-TAStudio environment that allowed me to adjust the manual dipswitches in the BizHawk settings, activate the service mode in the BizHawk GUI
B) Open TAStudio with the setting still set
C) Set the settings in the game's virtual service menu (virtual dipswitches) with TAStudio still open
D) In TAStudio, create a second movie using New -> From SaveRAM. This will be a junk movie as we are still stuck in service mode since we can't shut the setting off as the BizHawk settings are greyed out with TAStudio open, but will save our settings to a new movie. Why not just start a new movie non-Save-RAM? Because we need the movie .tasproj to be set up with the necessarily files and designations to expect a SaveRAM file
E) In this new blank movie that uses contains our current save RAM, run it for a few frames or whatever and save it.
F) Exit TAStudio
G) Now able to change the settings again, deactivate the service mode dipswitch in BizHawk's settings.
H) Reboot core
I) Open TAStudio again and start another new movie from save RAM, which now will be the wrong save RAM because it's clear but that is okay we'll fix that
J) Run the movie again for a few frames and save it
K) Now we have a movie that is stuck in service mode but has a good save RAM, and a movie that is not stuck in service mode but has a bad save RAM
L) Open both .tasproj files in WinRAR and move the good save RAM bin file to the newest .tasproj file.
Voila. The file isn't a save state so it's not stuck in service mode and just contains the plain save data from when we were stuck in service mode. This was a pain!
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
I was in the room at the debut showcase at AGDQ 2014, good times for sure
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
My apologies, I didn't notice because I was busy. I'm here
Good to hear from you! See if you can patch this up from desyncing in the ice level.
If so then the beginning needs to be fixed (press start earlier, that's my doing but only because I hastily filled the empty space from not having to add credits anymore, it's unfinished and I was just worried about trying to get it to sync with the SaveRAM)
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638279002612996037
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I'm not as passionate about this discussion as you think
Yes I’m aware, considering you didn’t check sync for yourself before writing up paragraphs about it.
Just a little near-copy-and-paste over a friendly discussion between two people in PM, referring to all games and systems and not just Meong (didn't think it necessarily warranted a thread since we were already on the topic), posted publicly as requested.
I don't have FCEUX downloaded and have never used it, nor did I think expressing a concern would require me to check this instant. I do think it's a valid concern as for several other systems I wouldn't even have to check (GB, N64 obviously, DS, etc. seem to be desync city lately even for close versions)
but the NES did indeed overcome my expectations on emulation improvements over the years and did indeed sync with the newest version as I wasn't sure (but not completely unsure).
Have a nice night!
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So you went on a rant about runs using older versions of emulators, citing concerns that they are too inaccurate.
and you didn't even check for yourself to see if this run synced on a more up to date FCEUX?
Why?
Plus I found it extremely odd, obviously it's a red flag but thankfully the NES has been pretty well emulated for some time, reading through my posts I was more "curious" than "sure". I have some runs I did on 2.8 and 2.9 that I ran through 2.9.1 just to be tidy so I could list that as the emulator version on the submission.
I think even if you're positive it's not afflicted by these issues, to run it through the newest version anyways for the sole purpose of verification and a version to put on the submission page that won't raise an eyebrow. Only takes a second, and then as a side effect you also have the new version to keep using downloaded and ready to go for new projects too rather than just verification. Shrug, I'd do it just for the little box on the submission page looking fresher
If it's a valid run you won't even have to touch the inputs anyways and it'll be swift and painless
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
So you went on a rant about runs using older versions of emulators, citing concerns that they are too inaccurate.
and you didn't even check for yourself to see if this run synced on a more up to date FCEUX?
Why?
I'm not as passionate about this discussion as you think, nymx and I were communicating over PMs he initiated, along the lines of curiosity about the version differences and rules (a lot of friendly nerd discussion going on) and then he encouraged both of us to continue the discussion here (see his above post to mentioning my and warmCabin's discussions and encouraging me to continue them here rather than PM as well... which was all handled in this thread anyways). Decided to just put the whole thing here (a fair bit after 8~ PMs) as I think it's an interesting issue, even though it didn't end up affecting this run itself.
Not trying to bury warmCabin's emulator choice, infact the TASer side of me would obviously rather see the faster time accepted, especially if my name ends up added to it. :P (That was a joke)
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
You note FCEUX's accuracy, however I am noting specifically the old version of the emulator vs. new rather FCEUX as a whole.
you do realize the movie syncs just fine on FCEUX 2.6.4 right?
That was my next question. LOL
Nymx and I just had an interesting discussion and it was worth bringing up, as the version argument was more important than the FCEUX vs. BizHawk argument nymx brought up.
If it syncs on 2.6.4, then that's great... and then I'd be happy to see either accepted. I'm not getting into worrying about FCEUX vs. BizHawk as that is a much bigger discussion than this run and wasn't what I was talking about at all. I was just concerned the very outdated version of FCEUX was producing the results mentioned by warmCabin, but also as I mentioned I figured NES emulation was pretty good back then, which it was, as you confirmed it syncs on 2.6.4. Good stuff
That's all I was worried about... and only very slightly as noted
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Sent another PM to nymx. We have been discussing emulators and it appears there is no literature describing this.
There is allowed emulators and disallowed emulators but no restriction on emulator versions.
Perhaps this is a good time to set a precedent. I do think there SHOULD be some leeway (i.e. 5 minor revisions, 1 major release, adjustable to whatever the powers that be like) for people that have working on TASes for months and they don't sync on the next version up (or five).
i.e. I have a DS run I've been working on for months on Biz 2.8.0 that no longer syncs on 2.9.1. So that should be fine as I could see that happening every so often (and perhaps be less strict on long TASes that have been worked on for months). Plus regardless of my circumstances or reasoning that's within the ballpark of versions anyways. It's not THAT old. But a few years and versions back starts to present larger problems.
But versions a few years old shouldn't be allowed as it presents an abusable opportunity to gain frames (not saying this is the case here by any means).
It doesn't seem to have happened yet, but there is a huge advantage to running something like a Game Boy game on an ancient version of BizHawk or something.
I'm obviously not saying we should go back and retime every old emulator version (there are many that exist with illegitimate times as a result of emulation inaccuracy and getting anything on this site to sync without editing that's more than 2 years old is basically a death wish), but for new submissions I'm surprised there's no rule setting that you can't use an emulator several years out of date just for the heck of it
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nymx, I'll continue what I was saying in PM here.
nymx wrote:
I need to clarify one thing, in regards to OtakuTAS's concerns.
I understand that there are some differences being discussed here between the use of FCEUX and Bizhawk.
Not at all.
I think you are confusing my criticism of the BRAND of emulators, when instead I am comparing the VERSION of the same emulator.
You note FCEUX's accuracy, however I am noting specifically the old version of the emulator vs. new rather FCEUX as a whole.
Comparing BizHawk's first version with BizHawk's newest version (2.9.1) would create the same argument on some cores.
NES is probably the most "safe" core for aging well as emulation was pretty good even years ago, whereas something like an N64 core would save a significant amount of time. Nonetheless, if going with FCEUX, it should be ran on the newest version.
I'm less concerned with the brand of emulator and rather not using one years out of date for a non-grandfathered submission
You mention the "accepted" emulators and this is an interesting point as it's a huge gray area and an abusable loophole that should be corrected going forward.
i.e. I could run a Game Boy Color game on BizHawk 1.0 on save a ton of time due to emulation inaccuracies, luckily nobody seems to have tried this strategy to my knowledge but it presents an interesting issue
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Firstly. WebNations is a hack that profited off everyone's work. That account can stay dead.
With what you stated there are issues with how the person dumps their videos for their commentary that wouldn't line up with our dumps/encodes as they do things differently which causes a/v to desync on our end (author commentary isn't lost to time, a backup of it exists), or they present it differently with pausing and whatnot (as you mentioned).
That's why we usually point to their encodes on their personal channels instead of providing ourselves. We would have to put in guidelines and a request for how the author has to present their audio in advance to their submission if we want to do it cleanly.
Certain authors also stylize their work, so there's that as well.
Another thing we're waiting on to hit TASVideosChannel as seen on Netflix Anime for instance is multi-track audio.
This will help reduce the amount of Sonic CD encodes for instance (different soundtracks), and allow split audio tracks in multi-game encodes such as the recently published Pokémon coop diploma. But again it can land on the a/v desync issue.
A better method to showcase these, rather than bury them in the mass of encodes (and classify it as ours, even though it's their hard work) is to actually have a playlist that goes off to the author's YouTube, a highlight sort of thing.
The author created their commentary, so they should be the one to have their encode featured to their channel not ours.
I personally rather not steal off of others commentary like another hack that previously existed.
That's a lot of great ideas.
The multi-track audio thing would be a godsend for this.
The only issue I have with pointing to others' channels is just that not a lot of people do it. Maybe if it's at the end of the video as a pop-up like some YouTubers do. I've found that anything in the description, and even worse linked in the description (i.e. to submission details), it's hard to get a lot of non-TASVideos users to read/interact with. Although a playlist owned by the channel would surely help, but it'd still just be something people stumble across at 12 AM and there's no way to really direct traffic to it and I'm pretty sure notifications for playlists are non-existent.
Maybe a giant splash "commentary version available in the description" in the beginning of the encode like where the encoder cards are would help. Preferably a separate one as there's already usually a lot going on there (despoa keeps it interesting).
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
(Also not sure what the history of the ancient defunct WebNations channel is or who even owns that, but if that's affiliated with somebody in charge here who has the password, could serve as a good "second channel" if it isn't agreed to do this on the main channel)
WebNations is not afiliated with TASVideos or ran by anyone on staff.
Yeah I just found that out 2 minutes ago with some searching. Interesting story there. Oh well.
I guess in theory a new channel could be made if absolutely necessary, but I think it would fit in well on the current channel.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
