Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Wow, what a pleasant surprise to stumble upon this amazing TAS. While I'm not a particularly great fan of the SRM routes, you made every section really entertaining. And nice to see an Ocarina skip! Thanks for putting in the effort. I could totally feel your pain, while reading your statement that the project took 3-4 times longer than anticipated :D
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Holy shit, I didn't expect myself to live long enough to still witness first cycle human. I love it. And it's insane, how technical glitch hunting has become. There are certainly scientific fields around whose research is not as deep as MM and Oot :D
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Amazing how far we've gotten over the years. Quite unfortunate, that even after all this time we still have to go trough the whole first cycle, but I'm sure in some distant future, this will also be a thing of the past.
Great job, guys. The Game End Glitch looked really smooth.
But something else: What actually happened to Fox's old TAS? Is the route completely obsolete or could this still be used as a blueprint for an "all temples" TAS? I would love to see my old run being shredded into pieces with all the new tricks that have been found over the years.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
For anyone wanting to see good old Ganon being defeated without any SRM stuff. Something like 24 seconds quicker than the most recent run of the same route thanks to a new trick in deku tree.
Link to video[/video]
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
I must say this sounds indeed pretty interesting. I have no idea how much would actually be different to the current MST and All Dungeon routes but it is definitely a nice concept to think about. Would be cool to see you doing that ;)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
evilas wrote:
Link to video
TAS-only, and definitely will be refined soon, but HERE IT IS!!!
Too good to be true, damn :D
Cheeze writes that skipping sword, shield or deku nuts is quite unrealistic. So what exactly are the dependencies right now? I assume something like this maybe?
- Nuts are needed for "walking while talking".
- Sword is needed for the memory manipulation process itself (right? wrong?), getting past Mido and seemingly to pick up the rock (right? wrong?)
- Shield is needed to activate Return A
As I haven't played much OoT within the last years, my knowledge on stuff like the exact effects of "walking while talking" is quite rusty. Some help for the old man on the following questions would be awesome:
- What necessary effect has Return A? Can't we simply do normal "walking while talking", walk to the rock, pick it up and carry it towards the Deku Tree area loading trigger? From what I understood the main benefit of Return A here is, that it makes the camera follow link until we get to the rock. Would the rock be unloaded otherwise without the camera pointing at it?
- Do we have to get Mido out of the way to be able to carry the rock towards the Deku Tree area or would he be unloaded during the "walking while talking" process?
Just out of curiosity: Can you explain a few more technical details about this? Why would this make it possible to skip the Slingshot? I always thought slingshot is needed to manipulate certain memory values by creating seeds. Maybe I have a huge misconception here :/
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
poptart1234 wrote:
A little off topic, but I was wondering Is a WESS faster than a HESS?
It depends on which speed you enter the water with. The water has only the effect of preserving your speed and therefor giving you the ability to switch into an ESS with that speed once you leave the water again. So if you enter the water using a mega flip, your WESS is going to have the same speed as when you do a normal HESS using a bomb. A jumpslash recoil on the other hand is slightly slower than a normal bomb recoil, so a WESS using this method is slower than a normal HESS ;)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Warp wrote:
Slowking wrote:
The currently published run is pretty close to perfect with what was possible before ACE was found. As evidenced by the fact that it was even faster than RTA runs that used GIM on VC. So not sure what excuses you are refering to.
For a really, really long time nobody has been willing to make a TAS for the Wii VC version of the game. In some cases I have seen the strangest of reasons stated for that, such as "it would be boring because it would just be the same as the normal speedrun, just a bit faster" (which is ludicrous because as seen from the unofficial invalid N64 TAS, the TAS would be quite different). It's the only game I know of that nobody is interested of making a TAS of, because of such a silly reason.
But now that the new strat is actually doable on a N64, maybe now somebody would be willing to finally bring the TAS to the current decade (if the major hurdle has always been the need to make it a Wii TAS instead of a N64 one).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the real reason that there is no updated TAS is not because of the stated reasons above but simply because there is barely anybody outside there at the moment who is willing to do a full game TAS of a 3D Zelda in general. There have been only like 2-3 unofficial full game TASes and that's it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Wow, that sounds absolutely insane. Is there a video of that mentioned GIM and SRM combination somewhere?
And no, I don't think this makes GIM possible on N64.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
I remember, that we were considering the bombchu route some time ago and it was definitely not much slower than the GIM route. The thing is, that I can't remember what type of GIM strategy was used back then. It might have been that very old strategy using the deku nut drop from one of the Gohma Babies, which is of course a lot slower than what we do nowadays.
However, that new collapse skip trick saves probably more than a minute, so I'm actually quite certain that the bombchu route is faster now. Apart from that, it is a legit N64 route, that basically skips all cutscenes of the old run and is alltogether simply fucking awesome. Someone should really go for that route, I'd love to see this.
About route planning: Where exactly would we use our chus?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
thatguy wrote:
This is not merely the greatest TAS of all time, this is the very pinnacle of human achievement.
If MrWint had dedicated himself to medicine instead of computer programming, he'd have unlocked the secret of everlasting life in his coffee break.
Hahaha, this is so fucking true :D
I think I've never been so amazed by a run. That Spongebob scene totally killed it for me. Up until a few minutes ago I thought yesterday's Super Bowl was the craziest thing I saw this week.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Dwango, I just wanted to let you know that I have nothing but respect for you for the big effort you put into organizing the GDQ events within the last years and especially how openly you confront the criticism here without trying to hide your own mistakes.
Good luck with all your future plans!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Always wanted to time this strategy, nice to see that it has indeed a chance to be faster. IIRC in any% using chus we wouldn't have a sword, would we? Would probably need a completely new timing test then.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
MTA wrote:
Just thought of showing everything i've done in one video
Link to video
Looks damn amazing, I really hope you'll continue doing this ;)
What I've always been wondering: When climbing the vines in deku, why do you have to drop down at first and reclimb the last section to clip to the top?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
It baffles me that there are really people coming to the conclusion that the runs at AGDQ are done by Tasbot itself....
If we really managed to create such a bot we'd probably be in all kind of computer science magazines.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Slowking wrote:
Pokota wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't turboing A while sidehopping leak frames here and there?
Yes as turbo is alternating between one frame pressing and one frame not pressing. It might be that it doesn't press A on the first frame that it would be possible, but on the second. So over time you can bleed quite a few frames.
Plus it's really not necessary. After a while you know on which frame to press A from a visual cue.
As MM runs with 3 Input frames per visual frame, turboing indeed works. You'll always press A either on the 2nd or 3rd input frame of the visual frame, so there really is no problem.
But Slowi is right, looking for visual cues or carefully watching MHS until the speed of the Sidehop drops by 1 unit is way more efficient.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Amateseru wrote:
-Moronic and GCTK already did one and was pretty optimised for something done in 3 days
I don't want to be an ass here, but the time it took to do the TAS shouldn't be a benchmark for the quality of a TAS. The run itself is very improveable. The time of the run is 16:47, a high quality run would aim for a time of 16:0x for sure. That being a said, I really hope we will see a new optimized any% run in the near future by someone ;)
