Well like i said, melee is a VERY BAD EXAMPLE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl7Is-VgB8I here is a recent one i did of ff8 on the psone.
No matter HOW you capture smash, unless your do it in progressive mode it will have flicker and that weird interlacing. It doesnt do this on anything else, the retrotink was merely outputting what it was getting in.
Smash bros melee just sends out a janky signal, probably doing a sort of screen tearing/interlace interrupt to make it as fast as possible. Worst case scenerio really, I should capture other GC games to show that none of that is present on anything else it does. Trust me, its not a deinterlacing going wrong, its more of a what you see is what you get with this thing and what melee sounds out look just that weird even on a CRT over composit. Thats why it had a deflicker option in the menu of the game that helps with it. Its an engine thing.
That's the thing, I've done smash videos in the past and I didn't have those problems. Really is too bad I don't have a GC + Smash somewhere to show what I mean. Watching Smash on Twitch.tv, I wonder how they deinterlace on fly. Your FF8 example does look very good, however. But I think I can do the same in software, I do have my PS1 here but FF8 is somewhere else, I could capture FF9 instead.
It could be the Svideo, I may try to capture it over just Composit and the flicker might not be there. Also many capture cards including mine, like the GCHD can do deinterlace on the fly which would probably make that go away. I should do some tests. So I could possibly do a passthrough mode, and just select "convert standard definition to 640x480" button. But my idea is to not pretty up the image aftwards with these captures, I sort of want to capture it as it, jank and all.
Also I did capture some footage with the game mode "deflicker" option on, the test 4 one, and it was mitigated. I think of the retrotink2x as more of a "what is sent out is mostly what you get back" sort of deal. If the image was flickering since all it does is line double, you will get the flicker doubled as its coming through as well, since its so quick at what it does.
I know it does have a passthrough mode, though I couldnt do this for SNES as i think the elgato hd60 wont accept 240i
240p
Marusame wrote:
...and will process it wrong if it will even see it at all. I know that on some systems the hd60 just shows up a "no signal" so it makes the 480p mode necessary, which in all honesty is one of the sole reason the retrotink exists since many modern stuff and tv's simply cant see, or misread the signal as 480i and interpret it in a weird way.
The SNES is a bit difficult because it does the progressive trick (i.e. leave out the last line and make the total number of lines per frame even) and varies the number of clock cycles per line.
The mainboard clock is 5*7*9/88 * 6 * 1,000,000 Hz. There are 1364 cycles per line, except for line 240 of the second field in progressive mode which has 1360 cycles. That results in (1364*524 - 4) / 2 cycles per field, and a field rate of ~60.0988 Hz. Meanwhile the capture cards expect the standard field rate of 60/1.001 = ~59.94 Hz, which is why they might show a "skip" every few seconds.
natt wrote:
That's why games for consoles in interlaced mode usually render a full progressive image, and then present it for two fields, getting both the bottom and top.
So they can't render at 60Hz at all...
Yeah, im not super technical on video stuff but i try to learn. I know the snes is a weird thing and that many tvs, capture cards simply hate it and interpret it incorrectly. I know ive been harping on this new device i got a lot but all of that is what this box is designed to help fix.
Here, instead of me trying to explain what the retrotink does here is the creator explaining it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIgmQH4AHA and you can get a good idea of its purpose.
Okay yeah it doesnt do deinterlacing it just line doubles which i guess is a different thing. Guess it just does the line double to get the progressive signal. If you do the passthrough mode that means ill get some lag on the tv itself since it will try to do deinterlacing but i guess the capture can be deinterlaced later.. idk there is no easy way to do this but atm im okay with simple line doubling capturing the best quality i can from it.
I really doubt retrotink does a better job from the YouTube video you linked us as there is a lot of problems with that video. It's too bad I don't have a GC to make a sample, but would a sample from a PS2 work for you?
Well like i said, melee is a VERY BAD EXAMPLE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl7Is-VgB8I here is a recent one i did of ff8 on the psone.
No matter HOW you capture smash, unless your do it in progressive mode it will have flicker and that weird interlacing. It doesnt do this on anything else, the retrotink was merely outputting what it was getting in.
Smash bros melee just sends out a janky signal, probably doing a sort of screen tearing/interlace interrupt to make it as fast as possible. Worst case scenerio really, I should capture other GC games to show that none of that is present on anything else it does. Trust me, its not a deinterlacing going wrong, its more of a what you see is what you get with this thing and what melee sounds out look just that weird even on a CRT over composit. Thats why it had a deflicker option in the menu of the game that helps with it. Its an engine thing.
If your goal is to have the best quality on YouTube, I still think capturing the original interlace signal and then using software deinterlacer like QTGMC would be better quality.
I think the retrotink does a better job but i could do interlace but im not sure how the elgato will capture it. I know it can do interlace but i dont trust the timing of its capture enough to do software rendering afterwards being better than what the retrotink does.
I know it does have a passthrough mode, though I couldnt do this for SNES as i think the elgato hd60 wont accept 240i and will process it wrong if it will even see it at all. I know that on some systems the hd60 just shows up a "no signal" so it makes the 480p mode necessary, which in all honesty is one of the sole reason the retrotink exists since many modern stuff and tv's simply cant see, or misread the signal as 480i and interpret it in a weird way. The retrotink was made to fix that issue.
Capturing solid, pure footage from older systems will always be an expensive, and pain in the ass thing. My current setup this is the best i can do.
I wanted advice here because i know there are some 480p60fps footage on the TAS youtube channel and the end process of encoding from emulators and consoles can be similar.
Also the retrotink doesnt just deinterlace, it line doubles it so its a bit more involved than just a deinterlace of a signal to hdmi.
Also you can play gamecube games in progressive on a wii with a component cable which is FARRR cheaper but the wii produces a muddier signal without modding. The Retrotink's passthrough mode is so you can do deinterlacing later if you choose too along the chain. To get progressive out of a gamecube however is VERY expensive since the gamecube component cables have a special chip in them and were in limited numbers only sold through nintendo's website, so they fetch about 150+$ for one, your better off getting one of the gamecube to hdmi devices that sell for around the same price.
But the retrotink 2x cant apparently handle a 480p IN signal, it wigs out and splits the image. The retrotink 2x is JUST a line doubler, it effectively does near perfect deinterlacing and does it in 83 microseconds or 5 scanlines apparently. The job of the retrotink2x is to be a more affordable option to play older systems on modern tvs.
Sure the RGB+Framemeister is a way to go but the framemeister while amazing, isnt perfect, its still much slower than the retrotink2x and adds a tiny amount of lag. Its very low sure but it just shows how fast the retrotink is. Its damn near CRT levels.
Also the hdmi the retrotink sends out is 480p60, it takes 480i or 240i and correctly line doubles it and makes it hdmi compatible. Im currently playing FFIV on my PSONE over svideo and the pixels look pretty damn sharp. Smash bros melee in of it self on gamecube isnt a perfect test since its weird.
Also, i have a Wii2hdmi adapter and while it can handle progressive mode and makes it 720p, its a pretty mushy image. Going to 480i mode and using the retrotink with component cables on the wii is actually a much, MUCH cleaner looking image.
I wish the retrotink could at least handle progressive even in passthrough so i can capture progressive native but its ability to handle 480i to 480p is pretty damn perfect and is nearly identical to what the game would put out in progressive anyway.
But yeah the retrotinks sole goal in life is to make a 480i30fps to 480p60fps out over hdmi as fast as humanly possible with hardware. Its not a perfect device but holy crap does SNES look clean even over composit with it.
Looks like some part of your toolchain erroneously thinks the video is interlaced and applies deinterlacing.
Well the retrotink 2X is a line doubler RCA/Svideo/Component to hdmi. It IS interlaced and it takes it to 480p, you can add a filter to it as well. Smash Bros Melee has interlace flicker unless you turn the deflicker option so its just a melee thing. The retrotink makes any analog 240i 480i and i think a few others into 480p or 480p with a filter. It does this within or down to a single frame. Its the fastest 0lag solution of playing RCA style inputs on modern setups.
For instance if you use your TV's RCA it can put up to 8-10 frames of lag, the retrotinks life goal is to take the image, make it 480p (it has a passthrough mode that displays what its getting in case you wanted to pump the image into an OSSC or framemeister) and shoot it over hdmi the very instant it gets the footage. Its 100$ and developed by a single dude. Its also the best way to get proper aspect ratio's on new tv's. That flicker is also what you would get on a CRT which i know because i have played it on one back in the day for many years.
Also im pretty sure I dont have the elgato stretch standard def content or the deinterlacing on (which it wouldnt do anyway as the retrotink puts out 480p).
http://www.retrotink.com/
Ill capture other gamecube games, melee is kind of a unique beast and the weird flickering interlaced part shouldnt be in any other gamecube game. Just wish the retrotink could handle 480p input, but I couldnt do that anyway on just a gamecube without spending another 100$+ on the gamecube component cables or one of the 3rd party solutions.
Just double the height, and adjust the aspect ratio with MKVToolNix.
Well im actually capturing real hardware(in real time), and I just ended up saying screw it and just changed the base canvas size in OBS to multiples of 4:3 at 3X the resolution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Jj6Fifx5Q
Im using a retrotink and wanted the best quality to display the retrotinks2x footage. I wanted a 1:1 4:3/60fps video but it seems youtube just cant do that.
Find a video that's displaying at 480p60, right click the video in Youtube and select "stats for nerds". What is the resolution the video is playing back at?
interesting, 540x720 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FMNvMx3eMo it was also in higher resolutions. But i could have sworn there are more videos on TASVideos that are JUST 480p60fps as its highest resolution. Ill post when i find one but they exist and it weirded me out.
Does anyone know how to get a 480p60fps video on youtube? I know TASVideos is one of the few channels ive even SEEN it working. Ive tried it with my retrotink 2x i just got, and while the video isnt out quite yet at time of this writing (its set to premiere), in the preview its showing just 480p(non 60) and its been an hour or so to process.
So I would like to know if there is a "trick" to get 480p60fps footage working on youtube.
