Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638775249545756413
Another 4 frame improvement, thanks to M3's finding of cancelling ladder jump animation. Credits go to M3.
Please help replace the submission file. Hopefully this time, this category is fully optimized.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
So I retested this with Mega Man X5 and did get somewhere, although it doesn't match the reported issue. As far as I can tell, both nymashock and octoshock behave the same across all versions, from 2.6.1 up to latest dev:
If one controller is connected, 4 frame advances are required to see the first jump animations. If two controllers are connected (port 1 and 2), only 3 frame advances are required. So visual latency depends solely on the controllers connected.
Whether or not that's accurate and correct I can't tell, but considering it matches between octoshock and nymashock across all versions I'm inclined to say it's intended.
Wow. I've tested it, and it's actually true. I didn't thought the 2nd controller settings would affect this behaviour. Thanks. :)
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
FractalFusion wrote:
I tested both cores, both player characters X and Zero. In all cases, I found that the player goes into the jumping sprite when the emulator says "4680 X". That is, I found it takes 3 frames for the animation to appear in all cases I tested, being unable to find any difference between the cores or the characters.
For me, it takes 4 frames (frame advance 4 times) to see jumping on screen in X5. 3 frames are fine (same as X4), 4 frames mean an extra frame delay.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
FractalFusion wrote:
For reference, the emulator's About screen says that the version of BizHawk I am using is "Version 2.8 (x64) (GIT HEAD#e731e0f32)" and "Version 2.8 (x64) February 19, 2022".
My version is exactly the same. I'm using ".cue" as well. It's strange that we get different results. Could there be some other settings that may influence this?
I honestly don't know if newer versions are indeed more accurate with everything, but having one extra frame delay in X5 than X4 is pretty weird to me. Since I've also tested PSXjin (no frame delay), the game code in those two games shouldn't be that different.
I just hope that someone can figure out why it happens, or come up a easy solution to fix it. Otherwise TASing X5 would be extra hard for me, since I do manual inputs.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
FractalFusion wrote:
Can you upload your BizHawk 2.8 Octoshock (no delay) TAS, for comparison purposes?
Sorry, I don't share my test version of this TAS. Besides, you can't see the difference from the movie file. The difference is with how the emulator responds to inputs, not only from the screen image, but also for memory values as well.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
FractalFusion wrote:
Regarding the topic https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Topics/26020 , you mentioned that there was a one-frame input delay of some kind. According to the submission notes, you used BizHawk 2.10. Did the one-frame input delay have any effect on the TAS?
Good question. I actually did this TAS with BizHawk 2.8 Octoshock (no delay), and then resynced it with 2.10. The actual game play should be the same. Difference is with lag frames.
Unfortunately my issue in that topic hasn't been solved, so I have no choice but to do X5 TAS this way. Hopefully there'll be better ways in the future, because resyncing a TAS takes extra efforts.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
InputEvelution wrote:
If you look at the workbench, there are numerous TASes that have been submitted earlier than yours that have also not started being judged yet. There are not enough staff to take on every submission immediately.
I'm not saying that I'm suffering the worse fate. I can only speak for my self, and for this submission alone.
For comparison, most of the other submissions you've mentioned are less popular games, not a Star movie on this site.
Bigbass wrote:
Your attitude isn't appreciated nor welcome on this site. If it takes 3 months, then it takes 3 months, there's no harm in that. Please be patient, working through the submission queue takes time.
No harm? No harm to delay a submission for months, whether on purpose or not on purpose?
For comparison, Bernka's submission in 2012 took only 4 days. Maybe learn a thing or two from that? Maybe try improving yourselves before criticising my attitude?
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
It's been 20 days since our TAS was submitted. It's still "new", no one's judging it.
Since this is an improvement over a Star TAS on this site, it should be an easy decision to me.
I'd hate to wait for 3 months to see this published. Hopefully TASVideos's better than that.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
FractalFusion wrote:
Oops. Oh well, I kind of tried. (But not hard enough, apparently.)
That's OK. Comparing everything is hard, especially due to emulator difference. Thanks for your attempt. :)
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
FractalFusion wrote:
Since this TAS was made with BizHawk 2.8 and the previous TAS with PSXjin, I made a semi-comparison encode to show that the run is around 995 frames (16.5 seconds) faster:
Thanks for your comparison video. I didn't make a full comparison video (because very few people would watch), but I've made 3 full stage comparison videos, and comparison video of every boss fight, links are in the submission text.
I have full confidence that my calculation of 1245 frames should be accurate. I've listed the accurate time improvement of each stage in the submission text.
I didn't check your comparison video stage by stage, but here's a part of things you're missing:
* READY lags. According to my table of improvements, even without counting READY lags, the improvements should be at least 1147 frames.
* Two Web Spider fights. The correct measurement is from Spider's explosion time, instead of the frame Spider's health meter reaches zero.
* Two Storm Owl fights. You should add 16 frames to each fight, because Zero's above the ground when the battle ends, saving 16 frames of rising to the sky.
* Frames between those boss portals in Final Weapon Stage 3 (6 frames).
* There are lags before "WARNING". The time in Space Port doesn't add up to me. The correct improvement time should be 41 or 51 frames (not including "READY").
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
I've watched the TAS, and it's fine to me. Yes vote.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
Voting yes. The entertainment efforts in this TAS are very good. I like the ending of 2-3, and the "sliding under a Hammer Bro" in 3-1.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
I have a question about the framerate. Why the framerate of this TAS is 60.009601536245796 instead of 59.82655362537372?
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
zk547 wrote:
Great TAS, cool to see that so much time could be saved from the previous run. Also surprised that Ultimate X is actually faster, always thought that Zero's SDC would reign supreme.
Thanks for your comments.
Yes, Ultimate Armor X is actually the fastest. I assumed it's about 2 minutes faster than Zero when I was making it, and it's somewhat accurate compared to Bernka's Zero TAS. Now we know exactly how much Ultimate Armor is faster with the newest strats.
To rank these TASes by speed:
Ultimate Armor -> Zero -> X, no items -> X, 100%
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
YoshiRulz wrote:
To avoid confusion, perhaps you could make a table indicating which cores in which versions have the additional latency? Or if you know how to git bisect that would be the most helpful.
I've stated in my posts. To make a table:
2.8.0 Nymashock (one frame delay) - Octoshock (no delay)
2.9.1 Nymashock (one frame delay) - Octoshock (one frame delay)
2.10 Nymashock (one frame delay) - Octoshock (one frame delay)
PSXjin no delay
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
So I tried 2.8 Octoshock, and the problem isn't there. (Edit: Strangely for 2.9 and 2.10 Octoshock, there's still that input delay problem.)
This doesn't make sense, there are no core changes between 2.8 and 2.9 Octoshock. Testing it myself, and I find no difference between 2.8 Octoshock and 2.9 Octoshock and Nymashock. Are you sure your controller configuration is identical between the two?
Yeah, I just double checked in 2.9.1 Octoshock, and the one frame input delay is there. The controller configuration is almost the same (at least I can't tell the difference, there are too many settings).
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
CUI wrote:
Da lao niu B，fa tiao ping lun zhan ge lou. shun shou tou ge YES piao.
No one in the English speaking world can understand your message like this. But thanks for the YES vote. :)
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
One thing always confuses me when I'm using BizHawk: Mega Man X4 works fine, but Mega Man X5 has an one frame input delay. Like when you press jump, it will always jump 1 frame later than X4.
It happens to me when I tried 2.8 and 2.10 version of BizHawk. But I just tried PSXjin, the problem isn't there. X4 and X5 works the same in PSXjin.
I asked my friend M3 about this, he told me that it happens in X5 and X6 with Nymashock, but not in Octoshock. So I tried 2.8 Octoshock, and the problem isn't there. (Edit: Strangely for 2.9 and 2.10 Octoshock, there's still that input delay problem.)
So I want to ask: Is this normal? Is there any way to fix it in Nymashock? That one frame input delay could bring some trouble when I try to TAS Mega Man X5. Thanks.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
I'm so surprised that I got the PSX TAS of 2024. Thanks to everyone that voted for this.
Mega Man X4 is a game I loved ever since I'm 8. I always admired those who TAS this game, and now I've finished two full TASes, and my third TAS, "Zero" TAS is about to be finished.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
Great TAS. So satisfying to watch. Thanks for the very detailed submission text as well.
It's so good to see your TAS again, zk547. :)
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
Good work. Yes vote.
My only concern is the use of soft-reset after 9-4, because previously it's done by dying in 9-1 with "You are a super player" screen. Is it allowed in this TAS? Personally I'm OK with it.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
DrD2k9 wrote:
Elitism also relies on subjectivity, which requires feedback, of which we’re receiving less and less on submissions as time passes.
TAS is art. Art is somewhat subjective. Our publications should have good taste and value quality, or why having publications at all?
TASVideos isn't omnipotent. It's impossible to make everyone happy. Submissions being rejected doesn't mean they have no value.
It's like if you open an art gallery, naturally you'd want arts with standards, and the best art work with limited space.
If people don't like the word elitism, so what? I'd still visit the best art gallery with the best work, instead of a random gallery that just let every trash in and lay them all on the ground.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
Memory wrote:
My goal for tasvideos is for people to be able to find the TASes they want to find. It doesn't matter how niche the game is, I want people to be able to find it. I'd prefer to find solutions that don't take us back to when people were rightfully calling tasvideos elitist.
What's wrong being elitist or being called elitist? Since we have the publication system, it's natural to value quality over quantity.
Just setup a new section where people are free to submit anything, apart of the current publication system.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
5x submission volume really mainly has it unsustainable. In the long term, the rulesets still might make various TASers not want to submit to the site (although with Alt/PG changes, it's mostly now just down to IL runs not having a definitive spot and that's arguably more technical of an issue if anything).
Normally more submissions is a good thing, if it means more new TASers and quality works. But a lot of the increase comes from low quality submissions / less-known/low quality games.
If the number of submissions is too much to handle, the reasonable thing to do is to set the bar for submissions and publications higher instead of lower. We don't necessarily need low quality submissions, or TASes from unofficial games that very few people cares.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2766)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 850
Since this is posted by one of the staff, and reposted and highlighted by the Site Admin, I have no choice but to take this "manifesto" seriously.
ikuyo wrote:
The current framework of TASVideos is fundamentally unsustainable.
I've been on TASVideos 16 years. Things on TASVideos went mostly well over these years. Why you find it unsustainable now?
If you find it unsustainable, find solutions and improvements to make it sustainable, or make way to more talented people.
ikuyo wrote:
We cannot live like this. TASVideos will die.
... But it doesn't have to be this way. It never did.
The way the site was originally set was a response to specific cultural and technological circumstances, filtered by the creative vision of the site founders. But we don't live in those times anymore. The world of TASing does not work like it did when bisqwit stumbled upon that movie. His views, his circumstances, are not for us to follow.
It's a shame to see someone treat Bisqwit's legacy like this.
TASVideos has always been the best site for TAS, with high standards and very talented people, or at least until somewhere around 2022.
To me, anyone who says "TASVideos must die" without joking, is unfit to be the staff of this wonderful (or at least used to be wonderful) site.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
