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GamesFan2000
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Just when you think there's no more time to save, someone finds time to save. Yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
GamesFan2000 wrote:
Has anyone ever even really tested if the YI1 Chuck-Eat could be used to execute arbitrary code in any way, or is there something about that type of Chuck that makes it okay for some reason?
The orb glitch, although looks similar, happens entirely inside the game's ROM and is thus allowed.
Happening entirely within the ROM itself definitionally makes it not ACE. I would of course be assuming that the submitter didn't lie here and there was someone checking it (although of course, it's generally fairly trivial to even check this in emulators). Keep in mind the rules are not prohibiting a glitch which can do ACE per se, but rather, does ACE per se (which can generally be defined as redirecting execution to some user controlled RAM; or any RAM not intended to be executed if you want a particularly broad ACE definition). If it's found out you can do ACE with this glitch, that doesn't prohibit the glitch entirely, that just prohibits usage of that glitch doing that ACE (which again, this could be checked fairly trivially in emulators). The newer rules already in place do allow for slower categories to use ACE anyways, in Alternative. In this case however, since that category is a Standard run, it would just be prohibited within that obsoletion chain, instead forming a new obsoletion chain. Of course, if say you find a way to do the problematic glitch without invoking ACE per se, you would end up being able to use it within that obsoletion chain.
So, anything that strictly occurs within the read-only portion is allowed in regular categories. Because the Chuck in YI2 does things in the RAM both in Credits Warp and in 11-Exit Cloud, both are considered ACE, as opposed to the Chuck in YI1 in 11-Exit Orb which happens entirely in the ROM. I still think that the inability to use Cloud in the 11-Exit TAS is a stupid case of red tape.
Post subject: On the Subject of TASVideos and Super Mario World 11-Exit
GamesFan2000
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To say that this site has helped so many people discover and appreciate this wonderful subset of gaming culture, myself included, is an understatement. Not only did TASVideos show me how beautiful the world of tool-assisted runs could be, but it also allowed me to look into more niche communities that are more disconnected from TASVideos (the Mario Kart Wii TAS community, for example). However, to say that the site's original vision and still-to-this-day strict rules and processes on which runs can even be featured on this site are more and more becoming a major problem is also an understatement. I'm not saying that someone's first TAS of Super Mario Bros that's multiple seconds slower than HappyLee's TAS should be accepted (I have actually seen this exact sort of submission pop up before). There obviously has to be some sort of quality control. But the emphasis on entertainment and full-game runs at the detriment of individual level runs and runs strictly focused on time is the exact reason why the Mario Kart Wii TAS community is disconnected from this forum. It's the same reason why the Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark speedrunning community, AKA The-Elite, was disconnected from Speed Demos Archive. In fact, TASVideos is basically the TAS equivalent of SDA in its current state. Something definitely has to change, and it looks like we might be heading towards most of those needed changes. Being more of an archival site, preserving the history of the artform, allowing IL runs, reducing the bottleneck of the curation process. These changes are absolutely needed. However, more than anything, the strict enforcement of certain rules regarding what can even be published on the site has caused problems for multiple games and their TAS potential. As a basic example: Super Mario 64 has five major RTA speedrunning categories: 120 Star (100%), 70 Star (Any% NMG), 16 Star, 1 Star, and 0 Star (True Any%). However, two of those categories do not have equivalent TAS runs currently published on this site due to how publication rules are enforced. Now, I think we can all still live peacefully if 1 Star never gets a published run due to how similar it is to 0 Star. However, the lack of a published 16 Star run with modern optimization is very upsetting, as it's one of the most famous speedrunning categories in all of gaming. That being said, at the very least, Super Mario 64's optimization has never been held back by the rules of the site or the limitations of emulators. Unfortunately, that can't be said for every game. While some issues come down to emulator limitations (cartridge tilting, for example), there is one uniquely frustrating case where the sites rules have straight up prevented a category from using the most viable strategy, despite said strategy having similarities to what is actually used in the current published run. Super Mario World, one of the greatest video games of all-time and a legendary speed-game in its own right. Now, unlike with SM64, all three of its major categories are accounted for in some capacity. 96-Exit is featured in its full glory, and Credits Warp is represented by the arbitrary code execution category, which focuses more on entertainment these days but has been speed-focused at certain points in time. That leaves the famous 11-Exit category, an iconic speedrunning category with a rich history in both RTA and TAS. Except...the TAS currently uses a strategy that, while it used to be the best known route, has since been made outdated in RTA. In the TAS, a detour is taken to YI1, where you take Yoshi all the way to the end, use Fire Mario to kill a plant, have Yoshi tongue the coin you get from killing said plant, and then collect the coin right as you load the Chuck into memory to trigger the Chuck-Eat Glitch, giving you the goal orb that's normally only found at the end of the Sunken Ghost Ship. This is then used to clear Iggy's Castle, and is faster than just going through the autoscroller and the cutscene after beating Iggy. However, as I said, this is not the current strategy in RTA. They instead do the Chuck-Eat Glitch in YI2, getting Lakitu's Cloud, and using it to skip a significant amount of waiting in the Bowser fight. So, why the hell isn't the YI2 Chuck-Eat used instead of the YI1 Chuck-Eat? Because the YI2 Chuck-Eat can be used to execute arbitrary code, and it's used in Credits Warp. TASVideos site rules dictate that ACE is its own category separate from regular Any%, meaning that an 11-Exit run using the Cloud Bowser strategy would be in the same category as the Credits Warp and automatically rejected for not meeting optimization standards. And making it even stupider, the YI1 Chuck-Eat is STILL allowed in non-ACE categories DESPITE being very similar to the YI2 Chuck-Eat. Has anyone ever even really tested if the YI1 Chuck-Eat could be used to execute arbitrary code in any way, or is there something about that type of Chuck that makes it okay for some reason? I know there was a huge debate about this trick years ago, but how extensively was the orb Chuck-Eat tested? If it's somehow found out that the YI1 Chuck-Eat also has ACE applications, it might straight up kill the 11-Exit TAS. You'd have to retroactively reject any run that used to orb glitch and go back to strategies so primitive that they haven't been used at the top level in RTA in OVER A DECADE! It's genuinely one of the stupidest and most glaring cases of TASVideos red tape becoming a major detriment to a category. I think I've gotten my point across. Certain site policies have harmed the optimization and entertainment of some categories while straight up forbidding others from even existing. For Super Mario 64, that problem does have a simple solution: add a site rule where any major RTA categories for a game is eligible so long as they are significantly distinct from other categories; 16 Star would be my conservative example of how this rule should be applied. As for Super Mario World 11-Exit, that is not an easy fix in any way. A new rule making an exception for applications of ACE tricks that are useful in non-game-ending glitch categories would have too much of a grey area, so I believe that the current ACE rules would need to be completely overhauled, which would cause a major restructuring of the submission and publication process and the categorization of runs due to the red tape surrounding it. Even if all of the other structural issues the site has currently are resolved, the overly strict rules on what can be published are still big enough of an issue to potentially sink the site anyways, so I think this should be of similar urgent priority to the other issues already discussed in the main post of this thread.
GamesFan2000
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Grid16 is a Flash game where you rapidly switch between minigames trying to survive as long as possible. The game progressively speeds up as you continue playing. Failing a minigame means you'll never get that minigame again, and you play until you've failed every minigame. Because the game keeps speeding up as you keep going, I wonder if it eventually gets to a point where even a TAS can't keep up. The game only requires the arrow keys to play, so it should be simple to TAS if someone can get it to work on a Flash emulator (not a guarantee).
GamesFan2000
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About time that this one got submitted. Yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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It's a good day on TASVideos, because we got a new Kirby TAS! Complete with DarkRiolu's wonderful commentary on his improvements to the old KDL TAS and a console verification on top of that! Yes vote!
GamesFan2000
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Miss Gamechamp would be very proud of you. Not only is this run a phenomenal tribute to a legendary video by a legendary content creator, you also IMPROVED on her run by getting rid of the remaining left presses! With the defeat of The Blue Robot Guy Who Looks Like Sonic, Whose Actual Name And Relation To Another Blue Robot Guy Who Looks Like Sonic Has Never Really Been Conclusively Determined, the Sonic 3 & Knuckles Press Left or Right To Lose TAS is Mission Complete, with a well-deserved yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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You brilliant bastards. Completing an S3&K TAS...by beating S&K instead of S3&K. Yes vote for making lock-on corruption a viable time save.
GamesFan2000
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What is it with Super Mario 64 and walls? In the original, walls exist where they shouldn't, and in the DS version, they're merely a suggestion, as demonstrated by this banger of a TAS. Quantum mechanics work in mysterious ways, I suppose. Yes vote, and maybe we can get a 150 Stars TAS someday (no pressure)?
GamesFan2000
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Yes. Yes, yes, yes. A THOUSAND TIMES YES! Skyboxes being broken, more than a decade of common sense being told to shove it, and one of the best TASes of all-time. Mr. Stej, this is your magnum opus, cherish it for the rest of time.
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It's annoying when you don't provide a YouTube video for the run you've submitted, ESPECIALLY when the notes contain a video showing a much less optimized version of the category in question.
GamesFan2000
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Who knew that spawning a blue coin as you collected a shine would f___ with the game that much? Another game destroyed by computer science, another yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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After reading the notes on this TAS as well as the notes from the currently published TAS for All Tracks, I'm quite astonished that this was improved by this much. Also, seeing a significant amount of the tracks reduced to "How fast can I crash my car into that specific wall?" is hilarious. Yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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I would love to see runs of Rally-X Arrangement and Pac-Man Arrangement (I had a collection of Pac-Man games on GBA that included Pac-Man Arrangement). Also, high-score focused TAS when?
GamesFan2000
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Wonderful stuff, just like last time
GamesFan2000
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This was a treat to watch! Inhuman Bejeweled gameplay is fascinating. And, to clarify, TASVideos always times from power on to last input, so the time should be a few seconds faster than what is specified. Yes vote, and I'm hoping for an "All Badges" TAS of this game in the future (or whatever those achievements are called).
GamesFan2000
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I can't say that I had "Ice Flower and Penguin Suit make 1-1 Propeller obsolete" on my bingo card. You guys managed to take a game that had literally used the exact same route for 14 years and rip it to utter shreds by way of Toad House. The 5-Tower cycle skip was absolutely filthy, and the 8-Airship one...HOW THE HELL DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT?! Undoubtedly a yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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I played the hell out of this game as a kid, countless hours in each game mode, and yet, I kid you not, and I am very embarrassed to say this, I DID NOT KNOW THAT TOON LINK, WOLF, AND JIGGLYPUFF WERE IN THE SUBSPACE EMISSARY IN ANY CAPACITY! I went 15 whole years without knowing that those three secret fights were even a thing! For that reason, on top of yet another glorious Brawl TAS, this is an instant yes vote.
GamesFan2000
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LOL! This game actually allows you to just bugger off! Yes vote for the absurdity.
GamesFan2000
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Oh god, the new admin is attempting to seriously submit a TAS of Color a Dinosaur, lord help us all...wait, no, they're trying to submit TWO TAS's of Color a Dinosaur!
GamesFan2000
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Oh god, the new admin is trying to seriously submit a TAS of Color a Dinosaur, lord help us all.
GamesFan2000
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Whereas other Henry Stickmin games at least have different routes to the end, Breaking the Bank is just a single choice that you have to make as quickly as possible. This submission is an interesting stress test of the rules in regards to how trivial something can be while still being acceptable for publication.
GamesFan2000
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I'm voting meh because of game choice. Is there really a point to doing 100% runs of Sonic 3 and/or Sonic & Knuckles when such a run already exists for Sonic 3 & Knuckles?
GamesFan2000
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EUROPEAN SUPER METROID PROVEN SUPERIOR TO NORTH AMERICAN/JAPANESE SUPER METROID?! In all seriousness, a fantastic improvement to the ACE run, who knew that spikes could be useful for things other than death traps?
GamesFan2000
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I didn't even know that Contra was originally an arcade game until a year ago, believe it or not. Everyone always talked about the NES port and seemingly swept the arcade version under the rug of history (same thing with Super C). It's nice to see a TAS of this version finally completed.