Hello there, I'm currently trying to learn how to use Dolphin to properly make a TAS of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory on GameCube, but coming from the simpler PCSX2-rr this has proven to be quite a challange for me.
I'd like to know if there's some written guide on the site (I could have swore there was one, but I couldn't find it), or even everywhere else. I've already read this one, but it seems kinda outdated, since I'm using Dolphin 5.0-14344.
Any text guide, even step-by-step like this, would be apprecciated.
I'm also looking for a video guide, like this one, better if trusted and/or updated, so any suggestion is nice.
Lastly, which game would you suggest me to play first to "hone" my skills at Dolphin, before attempting the actual SC CT TAS? I was thinking 'bout some Mario, but I really don't know...
I read this topic after jumping on reddit, github and other forums, looking for some improved PCSX2-rr version, or maybe an alternative emulator.
Looks like the problem goes far deeper than I imagined, since it's not only about the program itself, but also some "misdeed" PCSX2 dev team made to TASvideos... Idk.
Then I stumbled upon this comment.
Woops wrote:
I followed this PR for a couple of weeks before it was merged, and when I first saw it was I grabbed the latest binary to try it out.
I had planned to do some specific movement in Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness, just for showcasing that a TAS is now "possible"- unfortunately the emulator wasn't on my side.
First off the emulator is not user friendly at all- everything is scattered around and just doesn't feel "stable"
At first I couldn't figure out how to use the savestate hotkeys properly (thought it would be a separate hotkey for each slot, but apparently there's one hotkey for saving in the "current slot", one for reloading from the "current slot" and the last for choosing the "current slot"- this had me mixing up slots quite often and honestly got me frustrated from the first 30 minutes.
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There's some sort of fade in effect every time you reload a savestate- that was especially annoying when trying to skip the first FMVs and going through menus because every time I reloaded a savestate the screen would go blank (for the fade in effect)- I'd advance 1 frame to see if the FMV had started or not. I kept seeing a blank screen, advance 1 frame then save and reload sometimes. I kept seeing blank when the FMV wad actually running. Of course it went on until I reached about 2 seconds into the FMV before I realized what was happening- then I was taunted again by the menu which on has a fade in effect of its own which made it hell.
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After getting through the menus and getting in-game the game played fine. Took me quite a bit of time to get about 20 seconds of gameplay (out of 2-3 minutes showcase) but I was done because the savestate system was just so frustrating. I try to replay the movie and, surprise: desync. About 5 seconds of gameplay went properly before a desync happened out of nowhere. I tried replaying the same movie from a savestate from after the desync spot and hit another desync after that...
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I ended up just settling for the 5 seconds that actually worked-
"time to dump a video"~ Woops
"No."~ PCSX2
It crashed. Twice.
After fighting with it for some time I ended up trying a lossless avi, and it worked. Kinda.
It dumped audio and video into separate files- when joining these the audio wasn't in sync with the video. At that point I rage quit and deleted everything related to PCSX2.
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Just wanted to share my experience with these new tools- and they are everything but useable.
As a TASer with hundreds of videos of experience on PCSX2, I found it quite funny.
But, since I only ever used PCSX2 to TAS, it was also "helpful", 'cause it gave to me an insight of other TASers habits and methods.
I'd like to share my personal experience with this guy, maybe it can help him like his helped me.
First off, PCSX2's TASing Tools are unreliable when TASing games that use analogs, like the one you tried. I can very easily TAS things like Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3, 'cause it uses only frontal buttons, mostly. But if I try to TAS - let's say - God of War, or Killzone, it just goes nuts.
Idk why but some games that use analogs almost kinda work (I tried Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and God Hand, they both make use of analogs and tend to desync, but short gameplays CAN be recorded, like I did here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IbJfbI7904). In anycase, desyncs aren't often permanent, this means that you can just reload the .ISO or the savestate and it will sync back. If it doesn't work, using another savestate should do the trick. If it doesn't, rebooting PCSX2 may work. If it still doesn't work, reboot the entire PC.
I saved several recordings that kept desyncing for unknown reasons by following these steps, and they often work. Other times I went for lucky fixes throught trial&error while game was running, but I was desperate. lol
Idk what does Woops meant when he said everything is scattered around, 'cause I usually need very few things to work with PCSX2. Again, it's probably a matter of habit, I'd like to know where is everything he needs in the other emulator he uses to TAS.
Ironically, I found absolutely unusable and incomprehensible BizHawk when I tried to just BOOT it to casually play a game. Habit, again.
I'm pretty sure PCSX emulators are meant to be used by more casual audience for casual playing, not pro TASers recording, that's what makes them this way.
The savestates hotkeys may be confusing, I know, but at the top of the PCSX2-rr windows there's clearly written which slot you're using (Idk if other emulators do this too), like "|Slot: 0|" and you know that you're currently saving or loading Slot 0. I also think there's a way to remap controls and bind keys differently, but Idk if it's inside the emulator as well or you need to tamper with the .ini files.
The fade-in effect is terrible, I know, it also ruins my recordings, but while on frame advance it lasts only 1 frame, during recording it takes several more, not to mention the fade away effect of game's audio.
I """resolved""" it by making savestates during blackscreens, or with some post-processing editing in Premiere Pro.
Desyncs are very common on games like TB:AoD, you can just keep trying, reloading and rebooting, or just record from scratch again. Sometimes records are just... damaged? And there's no way to get 'em working. But the next record may actually work no problem.
Why? Emulation's misteries.
The video dumping part got me. lol
Because I honestly never dumped a video from PCSX2-rr, not even once. Jeez, I didn't even think it was possible, was featured or required in an emulator.
I tried after reading your comment and it crashed. lol But I don't need it. I usually just pull off PCSX2 in fullscreen, launch the recorded file from a savepoint and record everything on screen using RadeonReLive or other programs.
So, by my personal, onesided and unexperienced TASer point of view, PCSX2-rr just works. Not fine, ok, but mostly depends by which game you're TASing and how you're doing it.
I know, now, how all this WoT will look like to the eyes of a experienced and seasoned TASer, grown on BizHawk and DeSmuMe: PCSX2-rr is a bootleg version of an actual TASing Emulator. And it really is. But my point is that, as long as we have no other option, we must play with what we have, and PCSX2-rr is still far better than nothing. I found a way, even if not really confortable or reliable, to do it, and that's a good start.
Idk what exactly happened between PCSX2 dev team and TASvideos.org, nor I want to judge/defend any of the two parts, but I feel like we should make our part to still show how much a reliable PS2 TASing emulator is needed.
I say so because, while I was searching for stable and newer releases of PCSX2-rr, I read several comments saying that no one cares enough about PCSX2-rr TASing Tools because they're aren't allowed anyway on TASvideos.org, which is the main site for TASes. So I asked myself if this would change whenever TASvideos.org's admins allowed it back.
Maybe with restrinctions or specific rules, or even with some tweaks to help preventing desync, but getting PS2 most famous games TASed on here would prob wake up the interest about this problem again?
Lastly, and I swear I'll stop, I also read that analog desyncing may be caused by the controller plugin used to inputs the commands. I'm currently testing if it's plugin's settings fault, the whole plugin, or maybe even if you can make it sync by using KeyEditor (yes, PCSX2-rr has it).
I'll come back to you after my testing is finished.
Oh, so that's why I can't find the emulator: it doesn't exists (yet).
Isn't Fog the one who encoded that beautiful RE4 TAS on GC? It's a shame he dropped, he had a lot of talent, skills and potential...
Using LibTAS seems the only doable thing, but as I never even tried Linux, I don't think I can mess around with those things all of a sudden.
Anyway, thank you for giving me some more informations, I really needed those. :)
Hello.
Recently I've found out this Youtuber, Charada Brazil, who TASes PSP games. I'd like to, but I don't know which emulator he's using. I've used PPSSPP, but - as far as I know - it lacks TASing Tools.
I also found out there aren't many PSP TASed games, which also makes it difficult to find this emulator.
I read on the TASVideos site the emulators section, but I didn't find a proper PSP emulator with TASing capabilites. So I'd like to ask here if anyone knows which emulator I need to use.
Thank you.
I do not know whether this game is available for the PS 2 or Ps 3 but can be easily played n the Xbox.
Well, thank god for this topic over here.
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is current available on PS2, GameCube, Xbox and PC.
Also, an HD remake was done for the "HD classic trilogy" and contains the levels of the PC version but in HD and is for PS3 (maybe Zbox360 also?).
Thank you for coming. :)
Also, I bring some news: I continued working on my Chaos Theory GhostRun and made some new videos; I even tried doing a TAS out of it. The fact is: whenever you're gonna aim with a gun/grenade or hack a terminal (both phisically or from EEV), TAS desyncs 99% of times. With some luck and MANY retry, you can get a fully syncd video, but it's still very laggy (expecially if using googles) and chunky.
If you're interested, I can make a LITTLE video of SC Chaos Theory in TAS to show. But, still, don't expect much or you'll be sorely disappointed.
DavidKing wrote:
well, which gaming console do you use to play your game?
I am a PC gamer and looking forward to having the latest series.
I play on PC, from PCSX2-rr emulator running a PS2 version of SC Chaos Theory. I also have the PC version, which is FAR better, but I don't like playing from keyboard.
Latest SC ever done is Blacklist, which I tried and liked much. Still, there are rumors a new SC should be out in 2019-2020. Stay tuned for further news...
Bumping this up because I got material and I don't know where to post it. asd
As I already said, I made a trial TAS to get the grab on PCSX2-rr. Luckily, since I'm in contact with the DBZ competitive players community, Mourossonero told me some things to get better, gave me advices and hope. Thanks to him, I've made a second TAS, using all the strategies I could.
I know it's not optimized nor perfect or stunning, but I'd really apprecciate any feedback and suggest to help improve myself further. I think the second TAS is actually entertraining and you can compare with the first one.
Also, is there any specific thread where I can post my works to get response, feedbacks and suggestions? Thank you guys!
Don't worry, PC and PS2 versions have very different levels layout, so it won't be similar.
I'll even try to use a different style, more like the ghost style I like and I'm currently using in my YT speedrun.
I suspected that. lol Well, where or in which section I can create that topic?
I can still make a "non official" TAS of SC CT, till that day comes.
Speaking of which, I was asking: how can I estimate precisely the amount of time I should spend of each level? As I said, for example, my time on Lighthouse is 7:34, WR is 2:31. Should I just make an math operation or what?
I'd like to optimize timing.
It's alright! TASing judgement is always aimed on in-game time (IGT): the time, that is spent on actual walkthorugh, not on loadings.
Not quite.
You see, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, on PS2 versions, has several checkpoints where you ARE actually playing (you can stand up/lie down and turn the camera) so the In-Game Time is flowing, but you can't move.
So, on each checkpoint loading, you're losing 2-3 seconds, seconds that will be calculated by the game in the ending screen results. So, yes, it is a problem indeed.
On second thought, you can just die and restart from checkpoint to move freely from the beginning, but I don't know if that's gonna be alright...
Also, PC2 version is only TASable from PCSX2-rr, and as far as I know that emulator is not allowed.
Dimon12321 wrote:
As far as I know, Gamecube's version of SC 2003 is as simplified as PS2 version is, but has better graphics. Both versions show 30 FPS.
Wait, GC version is the same as PS2? But, if Dolphin is allowed to TAS submission (I maybe wrong, please correct me if I am), I could actually play and submit a TAS!
Dimon12321 wrote:
The worst thing is if you discover no glitches and just repeat what speedrun has done. That's why I'm not interested in TASing SC series yet.
Maybe it's because I don't understand english perfectly, but I don't get what you're meaning, here...
You mean, if a new bug is discovered, I may end up re-doing the TAS to further optimize it? That's none of my business, I prefer playing glitchless. lol
Dimon12321 wrote:
Coop is a real pain in the butt for TASing. It's still damn difficult if you TAS a 2D game with the help of TAS editor and just tick on your input spreadsheet sequence to see what will happen. In a 3D game, you should take a list of paper and write down your full input for each frame and check for several times if everything works as you planned. In short, your progress will as slow as a snail crawls.
Ok, but HOW!? It seems to me I can't do it on PCSX2-rr, because I can only input commands throught my PS3 pad. Is there any other program I should download alongside PCSX2-rr to make "Double TAS"?
Thanks, Spikestuff, for posting the video. I already saw it, but it's nice reminding me.
Spikestuff wrote:
This is also probably the perfect opportunity to write this:
It's possible for sake of the game to have two submissions down to the layout differences.
PS2/GameCube on one side.
PC/Xbox on the other.
That's good! If PCSX2-rr would be allowed one day, or if I get on Dolphin and play the GC version, this could be the perfect opportunity to submit a video.
Oh, also, I was wondering: what if I want to post my efforts so far so that people can see it and suggest me other things to do/add/remove from my TAS? Like a open Work-In-Progress where I show you all a video and you say "you can save time by doing this/that" ect...
There's no topic on Splinter Cell in this section, as far as I searched...
Any fan here? After making my very first TAS on DBZ Infinite World to get the feel of PCSX2-rr, I'm getting interested in SC series.
SC Chaos Theory is my main focus for now, but I plan to get my hands on Double Agent and the others later. On Youtube, PS2 version is mostly overshadowed by PC counterpart (and maybe Xbox's), because of better routes, graphic, gameplay, ect..., so this is still an unexplored path. Having lost many hours on PS2 version since I was I kid, I'm trying to speedrunning it recently, because I know it better than anyone else.
So far, I'm looking forward to understand which "style" I could use to TAS it, because imho SC should be played in the most stealth way possible. I've found the actual 100% and any% WR on PC version, and I'd like to stick with the 100% for now; even tho I don't like that "commando-like" style of his. I prefer playing this way, which is more of a "ghostrun" instead of a speedrun, to enjoy the game as much as I can and as it was intended to be.
The problem is: I'm not so sure about using actual record (on PC version) to time my TAS, because the PS2 version has far more loading points and totally different levels layout. For example: PC 1° level timing is 2:31, my timing is 7:34. Of course I can shave off several minutes playing more aggressively, but the real question is: how can I calculate, or at least get an idea, of what the actual timing of a TAS speedrun should be? I'd like to optimize it the best that I can, otherwise my work will be wasted on something not worthwhile to watch...
Also, it would be interesting to TAS the Coop mode, but I don't know how to input two controllers at the same time... Could someone explain me, please? I've been using PS3 controller so far, so I can't just play both characters at the same time.
Doesn't look like there's already a topic about DBZ fighting games!
I'm a big fan of Budokai 3 and, recently, Infinite World. I despice Tenkaichi series, but I cannot deny they're good fighting games too. They are fast, heavy skill-based games, with high attention on frames&input. I think a TAS would take the best out of them and I'd like to see 'em TASed.
Anyway, on Youtube there's scarce trace of DBZ TAS, at least for PS2 games, expecially Budokai 3&Infinite World. Tbh, the only one of IW is mine and just because I really wanted to try PCSX2-rr out. lol
Anyway, I was thinking: TASing a game like Budokai 3/Infinite World/Tenkaichi2&3, which parameters should meet? Being as fast as possible or more "stylish"? Raw damage or technique show off?
I think great Youtubers like SJ2, Mourossonero, UnderlordTico, NateTheGreat, ect... should be of inspiration.
Your thoughts?
I know, PCSX2-rr is not deterministic nor sync'd properly, so a TAS made using that wouldn't be accepted.
That isn't a problem, tho, one can still use it to see how it works and making practice. Maybe won't be an "accepted" TAS, but sure will be enjoyable and impressive one.
One step at time, things can be done. :)
Are you sure?
I'm seeing there's PCSX2-rr 3.0, updated about a year ago, and it seems quite good.
I'm gonna download several versions of it and try to TAS with all of them. Probably, there will be sync problems, but if they aren't too bad, I could try to get something good out of it.
Hello guys, nice to meet y'all!
I'm Dr Doppietta and I'd like to contribute to this site.
I'm not so "newbie", I already know what a TAS is, what it uses (savestates, frame-by-frame advance, ect...), what's an emulator and how to use it (I'm currently using PCSX2, VBAM and DeSmuMe).
Also, I've seen a lot of TASes: I remember SoulCalUmbreon's TAS of Resident Evil 4 and Mercs with Wesker in the Castle; I've seen Schnee/DANTE's TAS of DMC 3 (both with Dante and Vergil), many Pokémon&Super Mario TASes, a couple of DBZ Budokai 3 TASes (which were WIP), Cod Black Ops TAS and many more.
Why am I here? Because I'd like to make some TAS too, of course.
I've seen several speedruns, even spoke to great Youtubers (Tizza4fun, Donguri, NateTheGreat, Mourossonero, ect...) to learn from Masters, and I dream to make some TAS for PS2 videogames that aren't online yet.
For example, my biggest goal right now is to create a Splinter Cell Chaos Theory TAS, since I'm already a speedrunner of that game and I published some video of my WIP, but there's no TAS on internet (as far as I know). But I'd be interested also in the rest of the series, in God of War series, Budokai 3&Infinite World, ect...
Atm I don't have any TAS to submit yet, I'm still learning how to TAS with PCSX2 (maybe I should use Dolphin to TAS PS2 games?), but if I get the opportunity, that's what I'm gonna do!
If anyone feels to help me or give me any suggestion, your kindness will be apprecciated. :) I'm reading FAQs, newcomers questions, Helping section, ect... but any other help would be great.
See ya!
PS: As you may already noticed, I'm not a native english speaker, so if I made any mistake in my post, feel free to tell me where I'm wrong. ;)