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Posted: 10/19/2006 2:47 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Thanks. When I saw Arne's test run of castle crush I'm like "no way am I going to be able to do that, it'll take so much time just to do the team-throw, nevermind avoiding the bees... I'm quite happy with the result though. I just found one spot in Chain Link Chamber (before the barrels/Bees) and was able to do a backwards switch there, but it immediatly pushed me out of the wall so I did not go zooming straight up. But now I know that I can sort of do it, which feels awesome, I'll try the other side of the wall and see if I get success there. I'm questioning whether or not I should use it as much as possible, because it didn't work in one spot that I wanted it to, and the toughness of the trick could make this level take days to complete.
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Posted: 10/19/2006 3:17 AM
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OgreSlayeR
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Well, take your time, nobody is rushing you. You might even find new stuff.
Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign
Posted: 10/19/2006 3:44 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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Speedy TAS of 2009
I'm getting to the point where a backwards switch is beneficial for getting the DK coin fast and efficiently, as well as skip a good portion of climbing, but my suspicion is that you cannot do a backwards switch into the right side of a wall, because when I successfully entered the wall on the right side, it pushed me out (maybe because there was not enough room? I'll test it like all hell, however the climbing technique I use due to exclusive Frame Advance usage makes me climb faster than Sami, and it takes time to set up a backwards switch so I may just not try it at all and wait until V9 to truly attempt it. I will give it a go, but if no success then I will continue unhindered. Edit: just did some more testing, backwards walking into walls is only possible by doing it on the left side, not on the right. So to get to the DK coin=impossible but the bonus on the right=possible. Too bad it's backtracking to get the bonus first. Edit again: just did it into the left wall, and once again got ejected. So, Arne was correct in his asusmption that it had to do with the screen scrolling- Diddy/Dixie needs to be accomadated enough room to shoot up, instead of merely getting ejected out. It's not as difficult to perform as I thought- go as close to a wall as possible, mount/dismount the kong, and move away from the wall while pressing "switch" and generally it works. So now to get the desired vertical shooting inside the wall.....
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Posted: 10/19/2006 4:02 AM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Chain Link Chamber 1/2 done by ending with failed backwards switch This is not the desired place where I want to do a backwards switch (I believe there's possibly 2 more before this, and 2-3 afterwards) but gives the idea of a "failed" backwards switch on the left wall, as well as showing my progress of where I am up to that point.
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Posted: 10/19/2006 5:09 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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I just pulled off a successful switch right after getting the DK coin, however, it might be slower then actually going up the chains and getting to bonus #2 the normal way... I'll test them both, and show both, here's with the backwards switch Chain Link Chamber backwards switch to bonus #2 Sadly, Doing it the backwards switch way is more impressive, but loses 43 frames.
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Posted: 10/19/2006 4:35 PM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Chain Link Chamber I decided to lose 43 frames and do a backwards switch to get to bonus #2 so that I can save time by doing another successful backwards switch right after the bonus, and have Diddy for the rest of the level. So the 2 places that Arne found- in the wall underneath the two cannon krocs, and the indent with the DK barrel to skip horizontally through the wall- were the only places that allowed a successful backwards switch that did something useful. I found many other places to get inside the wall, but either I didn't shoot straight up or couldn't use it to horizontally create a shortcut. The rest of the level is really fast, so I am very proud that A) the level is really fast, faster than Sami at many parts and B) I pulled off two backwards switches, the first which loses 43 frames but the second which compliments the first and saves seconds by not needing to use Dixie for the rest of the level or go up and down the chains in the normal route. And I thought this level was going to take me days... Toxic Tower is going down! Are backwards switches possible here too?
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Posted: 10/19/2006 5:14 PM
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OgreSlayeR
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Mikey likes it! Keep up the good work!
Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign
Posted: 10/19/2006 8:38 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
comicalflop wrote:
Arctic Abyss An easy water/ice level. The hardest part was the charge just before bonus #2- that took a lot of rerecords to find the best spot to stop the charge and go down to the animal sign without overshooting or missing
Why do you wait for the water to go down at the exit? Is Dixie's animation way too long? Great run so far!
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 10/19/2006 9:33 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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It is not too long- however, I need to switch to Diddy to start Windy Well, and since a normal switch out of water is 66 frames, the way Sami switched under water and hit the target is faster than normal Dixie activating the song, and goal switching is faster than that as well. So what I do is the fastest method of all three.
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Posted: 10/19/2006 9:37 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
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Location: San Jose
comicalflop wrote:
It is not too long- however, I need to switch to Diddy to start Windy Well, and since a normal switch out of water is 66 frames, the way Sami switched under water and hit the target is faster than normal Dixie activating the song, and goal switching is faster than that as well. So what I do is the fastest method of all three.
I understand. Why do you need Diddy to start Windy Well? Does his cartwheels do something that Dixie's Helicopter spin doesn't? Or does Diddy float up in the air faster? Or is there a character barrel there?
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 10/19/2006 10:01 PM
(Edited: 10/20/2006 4:03 AM)
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Diddy's speed is just plain faster. Dixie's hit detection is smaller when floating up in the air, but the level is big enough that Diddy's speed overcomes the small frames that would be saved by starting with Dixie. Using Diddy's speed overcomes it significantly, which I learned when testing levels of Dixie vs. Diddy. Dixie is just as fast as Diddy in some levels, like Redhot Ride, Artic Abyss, Rickety Rage, Klobber Karnage, etc.; not in Windy Well. For example, I considered starting Hornet Hole with Dixie, since most of the time I'd be riding Squitter, but the amount of the level before Squitter was faster with Diddy. Kannon's Klaim was fast with Dixie because she did not have to do the entire level, and it set up a good Goal Switch for the warp portion of the level. Redhot Ride Dixie's spin was useful, and again riding Rambi, and very little room for Diddy's speed to be used. Klobber Karnage, the route that Dixie takes is faster than if Diddy were to do it; I tried, plus spending most of the time showing off in the barrels. Artic Abyss; mostly swimming, so no Diddy benefits. Rickety Rage was on the Kart pretty much the whole time, so again no time for Diddy's speed. To compare, Sami exclusively used Diddy whenever he could, and only used Dixie twice in levels (Bramble Scramble and Web Woods, both for shortcuts by letting Diddy take a hit) and for 3 out of 6 bosses.
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Posted: 10/19/2006 10:08 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
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Location: San Jose
comicalflop wrote:
Diddy's speed is just plain faster. Dixie's hit detection is smaller when floating up in the air, but the level is big enough that Diddy's speed overcomes the small frames that would be saved by starting with Dixie. Using Diddy's speed overcomes it significantly, which I learned when testing levels of Dixie vs. Diddy. Dixie is just as fast as Diddy in some levels, like Redhot Ride, Artic Abyss, Rickety Rage, Klobber Karnage, etc.; not in Windy Well.
Very interesting. I never knew that. So you play as Diddy whenever possible. That explains why you are constantly switching players. I'm sure you've thought this run out very well! Looking forward to the final product. Then I'm looking forward to the REALLY clean version (V9) that you plan on submitting a few months later. Although I probably won't be able to tell the difference. :)
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 10/20/2006 12:12 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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Speedy TAS of 2009
I just went and tested every possible wall to do a backwards switch in Chain Link Chamber. results: in many I was able to go into the wall. In only one did I shoot straight up, and I got stuck shortly thereafter, with no efficient way to get out. Stretegically, there was one wall- the ideal spot to get the DK Coin via backwards switch for the 102% run- that I can't get into. it's the same pit design that Arne's third attempted backwards switch failed, with the bees that go down and up, on the right side of the three chain side with krows; just before the huge chain area with bees and the green kleaver. Becuase it is a small space, with the wall on one side and a ledge on the other, I can't go backwards into the wall, but that one spot is the only other place possible for a backwards switch. I'll test to see if a backwards switch is possible in Toxic Tower, and if that'll make getting squitter unnescessary, but we'll see. Edit: Nnnnnooooopppe so I'll be doing that level as normal. By normal I of course mean speeding through, showing off all the animals' tricks and taking hits to save time :P Based on how much free time over the weekend, free hours after class mondays/wednesdays/fridays, and that I'm 3 levels/2 bosses away, I might even finish by next week/weekend, but I make no promises.
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Posted: 10/20/2006 2:24 AM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
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Location: Back to good old Germany
Don't rush - take your time! And just in case: The place where you are supposed to use the "charged" jump the first time you can do it with a usual jump.
Posted: 10/20/2006 3:51 AM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Yes, I found that the first possible frame that Sami charge jumps is 2 frames before Rattler's first possible charge jump. So got that covered. Toxic Tower getting to the DK coin looks slow, but is in fact the fastest way to get there. I am not rushing- but because there is only 2 1/2 levels +2 bosses left, as well as the many hours I will have over the weekend, plus next week, and the weekend after that, is that my projected finish time is next weekend, but I'll be spending copius amounts of time working on the 2 bosses and looking over the run that it might be a few days after that. OT, tomorrow is the 2 month anniversary of me starting V8, and another 10 days from now is the 3 month anniversary of when I first started the run just before August.
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Posted: 10/20/2006 4:54 AM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Toxic Tower, World 6 complete
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Posted: 10/20/2006 1:05 PM
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Nibelung
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Joined: 4/13/2006
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Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Please, don't forget to be hit by the red and blue gas from first K. Roll. The run will be more impressive if you play it slow or with inverted commands (Even if inverted commands don't say nothing in a TAS).
Not more working on: DKC3 105% < Needs modified Nitsuja Snes9x+9, with reset recording.
Posted: 10/20/2006 4:21 PM
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Comicalflop
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I dunno... would it look more entertaining? I personally feel like being faster is better, and when watching DKC3 there's one level with purple water and it reverses your movement in the same way, and watching the TAS of it I could not tell the difference at all until I played the game myself, so personally I don't think either will add to the entertainment. The submission of NES Silver Surfer was rejected because the author purposefully made the run harder for himself, which netted not only in a not-accepted run but also a very non-entertaining movie. Sami had it right by dodging the cannonballs, but I'm going to try to dodge them in different and more stunning ways, as well as keeping the kongs constantly in motion. (on a side note, the stuck in mid-air glitch in Kleaver's Kiln also works at K. Rool)
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Posted: 10/20/2006 8:12 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
comicalflop wrote:
I dunno... would it look more entertaining? I personally feel like being faster is better, and when watching DKC3 there's one level with purple water and it reverses your movement in the same way, and watching the TAS of it I could not tell the difference at all until I played the game myself, so personally I don't think either will add to the entertainment. The submission of NES Silver Surfer was rejected because the author purposefully made the run harder for himself, which netted not only in a not-accepted run but also a very non-entertaining movie. Sami had it right by dodging the cannonballs, but I'm going to try to dodge them in different and more stunning ways, as well as keeping the kongs constantly in motion. (on a side note, the stuck in mid-air glitch in Kleaver's Kiln also works at K. Rool)
just go easy on the wobbling (frame-alternating direction or what-have-you) It's ok to have the kongs doing nothing if you can't fit in a cool stunt :P
Posted: 10/20/2006 8:37 PM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Oh no, of course no more wobbling, except one I'd have to test to duck and slide under cannonballs, but I will be doing stunts 100% of the time, that's my goal. I got 98.113% kills in Web Woods, I might as well make up for it with 100% movement/stunts similar to the Krow rematch boss fight. Should I use Dixie for the last three levels, seeing as how Screech's Sprint saves 30 frames with a goal switch, Dixie gets endless rolling in the boss fights and Animal Antics starts off automatically as an animal, and therefore no time for Diddy to save frames? Currently I just got to Sqauwk's in Screech's Sprint, and I'm going to test one shortcut and implement another that were noticed when Sami's run was first published.
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Posted: 10/20/2006 10:33 PM
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Nibelung
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Being faster is better, but in K Roll's fight, you have to wait him throw in you that barrel with the cannonball. And after this, you still have to wait him start sucks. So, making kongs be slooooow (Red gas) can be entertaining, because made the fight "harder". The blue gas (inverted commands) was just a sugestion.
Not more working on: DKC3 105% < Needs modified Nitsuja Snes9x+9, with reset recording.
Posted: 10/20/2006 10:45 PM
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Comicalflop
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As seen in all of the bosses, there are a lot of waiting periods, but I've found it no trouble at all to keep the kongs active. Rolling, jumping, duck sliding, helicoptering/endless rolling (if using Dixie), just plain goofing around- these are all things I can do while waiting for K. Rool. The Kudgel battle is going to look the most similar (though I am going to implement differences) in terms of gameplay to K. Rool's fight. And the reverse commands gas is colored purple, but I'm not going to get hit by that anyway. Poll: would audiences rather see Dixie or Diddy Kick K. Rool's ass? I ask because I am at the end of Screech's Sprint and need to make the goal switch/no goal switch decision now. Pros" cons: Diddy: Diddy has not had a single boss fight, he's lonely and wants some action. His rolls are faster, and his jumps are higher Dixie: Save 30 frames by doing a goal switch, more representation in the game overall as the boss killer, has the endless roll, helicoptering, and a shorter jump allowing for more jumps over a period of time, plus no losing frames when Animal Antics is reached. Either way, I am going to use one for one fight and one for the other to keep it fair. (goal switch is possible in Animal Antics I believe.) Hmmm.... Diddy throws the cannonball faster and in front of him, so Diddy it is and Dixie for the rematch post Animal Antics.
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Posted: 10/21/2006 12:29 AM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
Screech's Sprint
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Posted: 10/21/2006 12:49 AM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
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Does the game pause if there is a character switch (I guess yes), you could always use both. I'd rather see Diddy do the last fight, but its you're call and not mine. I doubt anyone would mind on what decision you take on the final battle.
Posted: 10/21/2006 2:00 AM
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sargon
Joined: 1/18/2006
Posts: 78
Location: Norway
I think you lose about 60 frames (1 sec) to switch between diddy and dixie. Just a little thing... A savestate would be nice so we don't need too fast forward over an hour of play. Beginning to be a little tired of fast forwarding, that's all :) Just watched it, and it looks very good. if there is frames to gain they are minimal. Unless you have a good reason for not using it, you should use the goal-switch trick before the final boss. You would save some frames there
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