Post subject: Comix Zone
Joined: 5/15/2004
Posts: 30
Location: USA
I have started a video on the game Comix Zone, with the default settings and everything. The game is pretty straight-forward, but I try to mix it up with some jumping kicks and such. I have the first page done, you can see it here: RIGHT CLICK SAVE AS Or if that won't work, just PM me and i'll send you the GMV via e-mail. I did make a few mistakes that I can fix to save time (I could have pushed the barrel left, flipped the switch, and then jumped over to the right side and quickly fall down to avoid the barrels, which would have saved maybe 5-7 seconds)
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
why don't u play on hard mode? or is there no hard mode? :)
Joined: 5/15/2004
Posts: 30
Location: USA
No, as far as I can tell, the only mode is the one it is on...
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
Hullo fellas http://mitglied.lycos.de/deinbenutzername/Comix%20Zone%20(4)%20%5b!%5d.gmv my progress that far with my timeattack I think that game is excellent for a timeattack, each level is very different from another, and there are lots of stylish tricks to do
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
hey guyz just completed level 2 of my run: http://mitglied.lycos.de/deinbenutzername/Comix%20Zone%20(4)%20%5b!%5d.gmv I think this movie is gonna be really kool ^^ Rom used: Comix Zone (4) [!] and please do not forget to set your button configuration on 6 Buttons
ventuz
He/Him
Player (125)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
Looks awesome, but 2nd level desync... using comix zone (4) (!), and 6 button turned on.
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Hmmm, don't know if this is called bumping a topic, but well, I have just rewatched Zer0's run of this game, and I noticed that there are many intended exploits in this game not taken advantage of. For starters, route-wise i am not sure if it is the most efficient one. Although the game is relatively linear, but there are many hidden items all over the map (to be uncovered by Roadkill) which may allow the stages to be done quicker. Every weapon is useful, since destroying objects will cause Sketch health, and health can mean 'paper plane'. So the route can actually still be improved... In terms of execution, the strategy for Mongoria (the woman in green) isn't optimised, in fact the run takes probably 10 times longer to kill her than needed. If Roadkill (the rat) is in possession whenever facing her, just dropping it in front of her can instant K.O. her! I am surprised that this wasn't used, because it was quite even hinted in the game (when Alicia talks to Sketch). I reckon using this can save at least 15 seconds, since she pops up quite often in later stages. Another place where it can be done better was in stage 2, in the room with the green fluid. 2 things could have been improved: - Speed, Roadkill can once again come in handy, since it would zap the slimeballs when it is in contact with them... also because he can find a health potion, which may or may not be of use since the stage is ending. - Entertainment, now I know 3 things about this green slimeballs. Firstly, you can only have 2 of these in the room at 1 time, meaning anything more and they won't spawn. But if there is less than 2, then they will spawn after a fixed time. Which means kill them as fast as possible to save time. But there is a second thing about them... that is that they are stupid (perhaps on par with Golden Axe critters LOL). They would at all cost try to lauch an attack towards Sketcg, even if there is another enemy between them. Meaning, it's possible to exploit and make them kill each other for the fun of it, and not lose out in overall speed. One other thing to note is that grappling these slimeballs can morph them into some other enemy, which may or may not be useful to know. I may need backing here, but movement may/may not be optimised. I have a feeling that rolling around may be actually faster than jumping or normal running, but well there aren't too many cases that require a lot of moving... so maybe it doesn't matter much. I get this feeling that there are many more other things to optimise in this run... but at first glance I spotted these immediately. I hate to see such a great game go down like this, anybody care to try re-running it? I am quite busy at the moment... maybe I will get back at this after my exams are done
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
I'd like you to try, since you seem to know the game well enough. Since others have watched it and not noticed these things, it's reasonable to assume that you are best suited for the job. :) I can serve as feedback if you want, checking the run as you progress. EDIT: Bumping an old topic is actually preferred to starting a new one for the same game, so you did the right thing. This way we can keep all the info in one place.
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Well, I'll probably be quite busy till early December, so won't be able to post any WIPs till then. Should be checking in on the forum daily though, so if anybody intends to try this game out, post here and I should be able to give some comments... otherwise, then it'll probably have to wait. I've got a rough idea on how to go about doing it. Still a lot of testing needs to be done... since the last time I played this game fully was in 1996 :S I am not sure if this game has any glitches though
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Found some time over the weekend to try and redo the run... and I am damn glad the way it turns out! Found my first glitch... you can throw a paper plane over the cell boundaries if you jump over just in time before the plane turns around (see the first cell). Woot! It was only a minor time saver in this stage, but experimenting it later, I reckon it can save another 5 seconds for the rest of the game. Respect to Zer0, manipulating the enemies in the first cell to bump the first guy out of the page took me quite a while... don't know how he actually figured it out. That is a very cool glitch actually; if you can bump the enemy deep enough into the page, you can instant KO him... Will probably use it in more often later in some fights! For people who intend to do this run also, I figured that you can save a lot of life (which is super important for paper planes!) by not scissors kicking every enemy, but instead grapple kicking them. The damage dealt is the same, but Sketch doesn't lose life doing this. It may even be a few frames faster than scissors kicking... since you can grapple a fallen enemy approximately 3-4 frames before they are vulnerable to normal hits. I used this to kill Strigil fast before he could teleport even once in the sewer. I think that was the major time saver for this stage. The only problem is the way the game detects grapples. If I am not wrong, it must first detect the player walking against the enemy for 1 frame, before pushing forward punch. This means that it isn't the best attack to start off a fight, so i stick to scissors kicking as a lead-in. The last thing I did differently was picking up a knife and not potion. This was because I would lose less life with this new fighting style, and the knife allows me to save time of puching the crate. Heck, this game suffers from lag when there is an explosion, but I doubt it will slow the run as much as NES game. Here's the WIP, done in 1:25 (& 42 frames) as when the screen first turns totally black. This compares with Zer0's run of 1:30 (& 18 frames). Any comments? This is my first time doing a TAS and I ran most of it in frame advance... anything doesn't look good enough? Off to study now... hope the wait wouldn't be too long for the next WIP. PS: By the way, if I intended to change just a portion in between the run, does it mean I need to redo everything after it? EDIT: ARGH typo... Zer0's time was 1:30
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
>Well, I'll probably be quite busy till early December, so won't be able to post any WIPs till then. Excuse me? ;) I will check the WIP when I get the chance, but why is your version slower than Zer0's? (1:25 versus 1:20) >By the way, if I intended to change just a portion in between the run, does it mean I need to redo everything after it? Yes, this is usually the case. Rewinding to a point erases everything after it. The only way around it is to hexedit in the later parts again and hope it doesn't desynch. There is a guide for hexediting linked in the FAQ.
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Haha... that was a silly little typo over there... his time was around 5 sec slower. Heh, I was skiving off from work, better not let my Papa and Mama find out about this :P
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
I have watched the run now, it looked good. Any progress on it since your last update? Did you try hexediting anything?
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Truncated: I am hoping that I will never have to, cos hexediting sounds like a bitch lol. No movie updates as of yet... but I was experimenting with ways to dispose of the bosses quick and I am confident of saving at least 10 seconds on the first and second bosses combined. Lol, discovered a weird glitch on the first boss which allows me to instand KO him... and for the second boss, found a way to manipulate a quicker and more efficient kill :) Not going to reveal too much, haha, have to wait a month more for my WIP! I really hope this movie would turn up well when I really get down to it... its weird cos the WIPs (mine and Zer0's) recieve so little attention, yet the submission by Zer0 was accepted quite quickly. Not sure what this says, but perhaps this game is so colourful so it easily entertains viewers :P Heck, exams starting in 2 days time, and will span over 3 weeks. argh! STRESS...
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Completed stage 1-2... and I'm 30 seconds ahead of Zer0's run already. WIP 25 seconds saved on the second stage, by means of better luck manipulation, and making some enemies and arrows to the next cel appear much earlier. Not sure how those work exactly, but found out that interacting with the environment (like cranking switches at 30Hz) at times can prevent Alissa from popping up and giving lame advice, which means I could make the events occur earlier... Changed the method of completing a few cels which were much more efficient as compared to Zer0's methods. The single biggest time saver would probably be the boss battle, where I accidentally found a glitch. This allowed me to kill him in a single blow, though I also have no idea how it happened. It's one of those glitches that seem to work out better in real time play than under frame advance. All in all, progress is slow, but the run is looking good :) any comments?
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
Man, that was awesome! Really puts my run to shame ;/ Keep it up!
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Wow... for a moment I thought you were gone for good! Haha... I made a bit of progress on stage 2-1, but it's coming along slowly. Heck, the game is awfully random; makes the simplest manipulation hellish :S I finally realised how useful Roadkill is! His attack can 'easily' (after tons of manipulation) bump enemies out of the screen, which makes getting rid of then fast, and also gets rid of some speech which speeds up the game! The arena part was quite hellish.. I was quite surprised that I could use a single plane to clear the two strigils and gravis together, that is after much manipulation. I am really excited about this run, initially when I started it, I was worried that there weren't enough bugs and glitches so the run would be pretty much like yours. But I realised otherwise now! I don't think I can get it under 10 minutes... but I may be able to get it sub 11. Hoping for the best now haha
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
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I watched up to stage 1-2, it seemed very good. Carry on :)
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
I have finished stages 2-1 and 2-2, and I am 6518 frames (~109 sec) ahead of the current run :) which obviously means that stages 2-1 and 2-2 were quite nicely done. I know that stage 2-1 looked bad at the arena (when I was dealing with the Mongoria, which I admit was a mistake, but I guess it turned out to be a blessing in disguise since the randomness translated into some lucky manipulations afterwards, ie the page tearing in the first hit on the last cel. That saved time for that cel and made it look more interesting since most of the creeps were killed by the projectile. The final kill looks also bad, but it was necessary since turning around for the kill was slower. 2-2 was less eventful which was a good thing. The well was the first real instance in the game where I abused damage invulnerability, which got me so fast ahead of the game a decided to do some can-cans :P Managed to get the paper aeroplane to hit Kung-Fung 3 times, and including the additional damage from his nails, I managed to clear him pretty fast. Oddly, staying near the side of the cel got him to shoot less fireball thingies, which reiterates the random nature of this game... which sucks big time when things don't work out This ZIP contains: - existing run up to stage 2-2 - a desync save which clears the arena screen about 1 second earlier but lags in the last cel - a save state at frame 17000 before the 2 runs branch.
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
Ok, back to this thread again. Basically I was fiddling out with different strategies for the stages and now i am conviced that i can do it much faster! So I shall rework on this probably soon; it's a short run, so I doubt I would take too long to complete it especially with the route and stuff all planned already. Actually I found a new glitch, which involves UP+DOWN. What it does is weirdly make the game treat a 6-button controller as 3-button. Though it forces you to be in the squat position, it is sweet since a) it grants temporary auto-block and b) you could it allows Sketch to search through his inventory 3-button style (which is useless but cool). To Zer0: Found any new strats or glitches? I was thinking if you found any cool tricks, do tell me; perhaps we could even redo the run together :P
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
xoinx wrote:
To Zer0: Found any new strats or glitches? I was thinking if you found any cool tricks, do tell me; perhaps we could even redo the run together :P
I would tell you if I found something, but, no, sorry, I haven't really played this game in quite some time. And no, not a good idea, I'm pretty much out of the TAS business, sorry ;/ I'm sorry I'm not much of a help for you ^^'
XYZ
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Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 168
Location: 2bastuz
How about it: In the first area of 2-1 you can find a fist and use it in the end of 2-1 (rope episode)
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
SHIT! I can't believe I overlooked this!! I reckon this can save at least 6-7 seconds on that screen alone... But I will be pretty busy for a long long time, can barely get my hands on my comp for more than 5 hours a week. How about you trying to improve it? There are plenty of other small optimizations that can be done all over, see if you can get it under 10 min :)
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
WST
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I don’t know if it’s a known glitch or not… It’s possible to die while saying «oh yeah» after «well done, turner». Useless for TASing though. Maybe useful for a glitchfest ^^ It’s also possible to die after successful completion of the first boss, but I’m sure it’s widely known.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4044
Possible time-saver for the TAS: Mecha_richter was playing Comix Zone and on one of his attempts, the rat on stage 1-1 spawned outside of the cage. This would save needing to destroy the cage. He'll put up a highlight of it here http://www.twitch.tv/mecha_richter/videos whenever he finishes streaming EDIT: I also imagine he'd like to know exactly what conditions make the trapdoor skip on 1-1 work (where you do a jump kick move against the explosive crate and get recoiled off the trapdoor and fall through the floor), since he messes it up a lot
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu