Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
The bottom of the well actually scares the daylights out of me. I could never play that level because I was too scared of zombies starting to make out with me.
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
I wouldn't object to a "Bottle Adventure" run in addition to GuanoBowl's current any%, but I think that an all-medallions run is silly, simply because there's barely a difference, just a few more medallions (which probably equates to something around an hour of added time unless I'm not aware of some humongous sequence skip).
I don't think a 100% run would be a good idea either. The any% run was 2.5 hours. A 100% run, to my mind, would have to be literally EVERYTHING: all heart pieces, all upgrades (ammunition and fairy fountain), all medallions, Bigorron Sword, all three tunics, every item, all 4 bottles, and, most of all, all of the Gold Skulltulas! This would be a movie of monstrous proportions - I'd hazard a guess at 8 hours, because of all the unskippable dialogue and cutscenes - and that's being conservative.
BTW, anybody have a link to this "bottle adventure" thing? I've heard of it, but I have no idea how it can be used in a TAS. I'm intrigued.
Well. Someone on SDA is doing a Segmented 100% run for this game. So a lot of people must think it's a good idea.
I personally would enjoy watching a 100% TAS. If someone wants to make it, I say let them. It's bound to be very good.
I enjoy watching 100% runs more than any other kind. The glitched runs, like the current OoT run, just bore me.
I don't see the point in playing a game if you're just going to skip over most of it.
Well, that's all for my input. ;3
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
djs wrote:
Why not just doing a Tas of collecting all medalls and stones?
Well, all stones have to be collected regardless. It's impossible to beat the game without the stones, unless you're using some crazy game-breaking glitches.
If you read this thread, though, you would see that since the medallions are not necessary to beat the game, collecting them would only be a good idea in a 100% run. Otherwise, it would compete with an any% run of the game, and it would obviously be much longer than the currently projected any% route.
e: Holy crap, resize your avatar!
Collecting all Medallions regardless would be a good idea, instead of skipping more than half of the game. That just takes all of the entertainment out of the run for me.
Whoever discovers the glitches like these for these kinds of games should be found and shot.
However. I do hope someone decides to make a 100% TAS.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
curtmack wrote:
...I think that an all-medallions run is silly, simply because there's barely a difference, just a few more medallions (which probably equates to something around an hour of added time unless I'm not aware of some humongous sequence skip).
Imagine that, given the fact that this is obviously a TAS, someone would beat all the temples; [All-medallions run] (not referring to a 100% run) what would we then get? About 1-2 hours of more fantastic, incrediblly fast maneuvers etc. As a few people have stated, a 100% run collecting and upgrading this and that would visibly be a lot longer (I predict it would take at least 6-7 hours) and that is as far as Im concerned, the only evident difference between a All-medallions run vs a 100% run is the length. The deviation of a 100% run compared to a All-medallions run is therefore in my opinion so prominent that it justifies 3 categories.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I agree with AngerFist... though I have to wonder, if someone actually did a 100% run and an all-medallions run, what are the odds that either run would be rejected on the basis of already having a completed run? It's OoT; the demand will be huge regardless.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Dromiceius wrote:
I agree with AngerFist... though I have to wonder, if someone actually did a 100% run and an all-medallions run, what are the odds that either run would be rejected on the basis of already having a completed run?
In hope of at least getting the All-medallions run accepted, simply the reason of 1-2 hours of more kickass entertainment should definitely be a sufficient reason to accept it, provided that its actually entertaining and very fast.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
AngerFist wrote:
provided that its actually entertaining and very fast.
It will be about the same, entertainment wise, as the current any%, since practically every area can be terribly broken with the glitches for this game.
Forest Temple can be all but skipped as soon as the Bow is found.
Water Temple can be broken with 'Farores Dive', if not by skipping the need for the Longshot with the Infinite Sword/Bomb trick.
Fire Temple can be skipped outright with the Bomb Ladder trick, although getting the Megaton Hammer may be necessary
Shadow and Spirit, as currently shown, are fodder in general.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Just a thought.
While searching the internet i found an N64 ROM of OoT Master Quest. I haven't downloaded it and so i haven't seen how reliable it is.
Personally, i think that it would be pointless to play this in the same way as the regular OoT run, however, a speedrun of this from beginning to end as stated in this thread could give everyone what they are looking for.
I have played through this game before and it is not drastically different, just harder.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
AKA wrote:
I think you may be surprised, in a run the WT will be completed in less than 3 mins.
That just furthers my point. Everyone that expects a full medallion run to be something that is more interesting than the glitchful runs we have now is in for a shocking surprise. In fact, an all medallion non-100% run would probably be even more boring, since you have so many extra cutscenes to sit through, some of which are longer than the temples themselves.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I have to agree.
The minimalist OoT run is so glitched out that we see little of the dungeons anyway and we would be naive to think that the remaining dungeons are going to be any different.
I reckon that N64 TASing is at such an elementary level at the moment that it would be better to get TASes of new games rather than categories of a single game.
This run shouldn't have a future for a few years until more N64 TASes are up and we end up reverting to new ways to do the games.
If anyone desparately wants to see this take it up with youtube.
Yea water temple has been broken supremely... in all honesty a TAS would run in, use hammer and hover and get to the other side (faster than bomb), unless bombs were equipped and you pulled it early enough to shield drop itand then equip hover (whichever is faster, since you will need bombs out anyways) then go into the next room, backrun up that slope (not sure if superslide is an option (if it is you may try 1 bomb, then a rolling auto-shielddropped bombchu + groundjump -> Superslide, as it would be alot faster than waiting) then you would to staircase method of bomb hover and then get through the door and fight morpha......
I'm sure that you skip ice caverns using hookshot or ocarina/bottle dive.
Fire temple has a ton skipped due to an extra Key AND (if child completion is possibly faster idk) using wallclipping to get from that room w/ the crystal switch and the flames w/ the climbable grate, into the room below w/ the goron, which means you skip the fire maze and save an additional key to the 1 or 2 you sdave later... but if not (I can't remember, you can just do bomb hover to skip fire maze too and still save the key) so you basically bum rush up to the megaton hammer, then use bomb descent to skip the boss door in an optimal manner (skipping boss key) and then call the rest good since volvagia is good as dead...
Forest is chopped to crap w/ Megajumps bombboosted hovers (which is great) and groundjumps and bombhover make this a walk in the park.....)
Plus this is a TAS and you can go through voids, so you could theoretically get bow, then just do acute angle on the pillar and use bombhover to go all the way back far enough to sidehop or backflip into that warp for the boss room and skip boss key too... basically, those temples are chopped to crap as it is... which I personally love, there are tricks for everything in OoT. All the things that this skips is an additional difference between a 100% and an all medallions. All medallions is a legitimate category.
Now, I don't remember who said it but Min% IS a legit category as it is nothing like the any% at all... but, Min% is crap. Who is going to do stupid crap like skipping HOVERBOOTS, Deku nuts, SLINGSHOT (Yes this means NO EARLY BOMBCHUS unless you can get hover off lizalfos (And yes I have tried, and no it is not easy or remotely feasible because they just don't attack fast enough... but hey, who knows), or choosing beween bombchus and bombs, judging between tradeoffs and not being able to do early bombchu, the logical choice is probably bombs because of swordglitch is quicker and replanishing them is faster... You also need to skip silver gauntlets and also skip goron bracelet so what the heck? Bombhover in Forest temple to get past block maze... YAY! that run is a waste of time, it requires restocks of bombchus (a few probably) which also will require rupees or just skipping bombchu all together for bombs. But... basically a Min% should never be done. (who knows you could get slingshot if the overall ability lets you skip the bottle and goron bracelet, although you'd still have to bombhover in forest...idk)... min percent is riddled w/ extremely lame tradeoffs. Only thing is you will never get hoverboots because bombhover exists.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
4 month bump, but I just started watching Yautja Elder's segmented vids, and read through about half of the 98 page thread at SDA... and have become convinced that a 100% TAS really should be done and makes all-medallion worthless.
my current reasons why I would want to see a 100% TAS:
-it inherently includes all medallions. albeit the temples will be broken, but you'll still get the joy of watching them TAS'd, and the bosses beaten. The temples may be done fast, and many rooms skipped, but you'll still see them.
-all medallions does seem like "beat the game as quickly as possible, but for nostalgia take extra time to beat these temples, but make sure not to break them too bad."
-it includes all dungeons, so Ice Cavern, beneath the well, and other stuff that is easily skippable will have to be done for heart pieces or skulltulas. so you'll see more of the skipped dungeons, besides just the skipped temples. also, you'll have to go through, beat mini bosses, and collect everything, rather than "run in, collect the nescessary any% item, then warp out."
-Practically every part of the game will be explored/visited. This is appealing to me, and others as well I believe. who actually remembers exploring the waterfall in the Gerodu bridge canyon, and knowing it leads directly to Hylia Lake? the any% skips so much of the game, it's nice to have a run that goes to every location. (which is a general attribute of 100% runs in general, moreso when the any% counterpart skips so much.)
-the goals put glitch restrictions, but in a good way. This is tough to describe, but "collect all masks/heart pieces/skulltulas" means that glitches to skip massive amounts of stuff aren't used (bottle adventure, beat only 1 or 2 temples etc.), but other glitches used to accomplish these goals in a faster time, many of which haven't been seen yet, which are very enjoyable. speeding up the gameplay/greatly reducing the time needed to collect all this stuff is better than simply skiping all of it.
-I've looked at the route at SDA, and it is incredibly different from the any%. so someone having watched the any% will watch a 100% and see a whole lot of new stuff.
-the cinimatic/Plotline to action ratio is way better than the any%. as soon as you get though the obligatory intro scenes, you'll actually separate from the plot somewhat in that more tme is spent doing non-plot things that ratio wise there'll be more Link action than blabbity blah scenes.
-the "where the hell is the runner going" factor is kept from the any%; Link travels around Hyrule in a completely different random manner, showing again how possible it is in OoT to do things out of order.
-the techniques in collecting the heart pieces/skulltulas/masks lead to new ways of using Link. with savestates/frame advance, these items can be collected in fast ways never before thought possible.
-oh yeah, YE's segmented 100% run kicks major ass, and tool assistance can only make it better.
-non assisted is aiming for sub 7 hours, I think a TAS can get low 6 hours or even sub 6.
AKA wrote:
Not me count me out.
in the SDA thread AKA mentioned how the most difficult part about a run like this is the route (besides just the long length). 48 pages of reading through showed me how many times the route was revised, and to my knowledge is still being updated every now and then. skulltulas can be day/night dependent; the biggoron quest requires a lot of sidetracking, and there's plenty of skulltulas/heart pices along the way; many HP/skulltulas also are spaced apart enough that figuring out which order of them to do when is tricky, sometimes YE goes back to get one later in a spot he already visited. sometimes something just plain doesn't work in a fluid manner (or at all) and has to be reconsidered. plus it may be that one thing that works in one place causes another event to not happen correctly in another.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I agree that 100% is much better than the all medalions. I've seen a few of YE's segments and it does look spectacular.
I think finding a TASer could be difficult because 1) they would need insane patience to deal with a 6 hour movie that regularly desyncs and 2) they would need to know Zelda to optimise at this level. Such runners are hard to come across.
If we were to throw a route together (which would probably be done anyway out of curiosity) then a runner may pick it up eventually.
I still think Majora's Mask would be much more entertaining as a 100% :) anyone?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
haven't seen MM 100% yet (that probably needs to change), but OoT is way more stable... MM any% has so many desynchs for 2.5 hours, imagine a 5 hour MM movie?!? (if only someone would try and implement a dropped frame alerter like I suggested...)
many people I know surprisingly do have lots of patience. no one has (to my knowledge) done a 6+ hour TAS yet, but I know of many members who have the determination to finish such a project. whether they want to sign up for it is another thing.
knowing Zelda would help in optimization, but I'm under the philosophy that to a certain degree anybody can learn to TAS any game. Guanobowl had to start somewhere right? and there's scads of videos, YE's segmented runs to watch for knowing where to go, and GB's TAS, where you can watch input. can't be too hard right?
it's taken the SDA peeps a couple of months to create the solid segmented route.... it'd be very tough to make TAS adjustments to what can be done quicker. there's boundary violations that can save a lot of time and change where you need to go next, uber tricks that weren't attempted that a TAS could pull off, and basic route stuff that's more suited to a TAS. (hard to describe, but there was a lot of routes discussed that a TAS could accomplish, that were dropped in lieu of a safer strategy/route.)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Mukki wrote:
I still think Majora's Mask would be much more entertaining as a 100% :) anyone?
I agree with this. I think the items in Majora's Mask (can anyone understand the hidden joke? O_o) have funnier and cooler abilities than in Ocarina of Time. That badass sword in Majora's Mask is wicked!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
