KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I was playing around with this, to maybe find something that could help my console running of it (I'm supposedly working on a 100% run of it now btw)... never got very far with it, though. And when I say "something that could help", I mean "something that definitely could bring my time down to under 40 minutes without requiring absolute perfection everywhere". It royally sucks that Shades can't be skipped in a TAS, but how about a 100% TAS? 'course, that too would benefit lots from skipping Shades at first since you could just sweep the entire mines and ice dungeon in one go after getting Gil... still, I'd love to see this TAS'd, even if you have to detour to get Shades.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Fihlvein
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Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 135
Location: Finland Realms
KennyMan666 wrote:
It royally sucks that Shades can't be skipped in a TAS
Fihlvein wrote:
Funny, I managed to make the jump with FCEU having Pal Emulation.
There is some place else that requires Shades?
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
So, a little while ago, I learned of a gamebreaker trick for this game. At least, that was what I thought it was. The desired result was to skip the long, long trek to get Gil's secret weapon. But... there's exactly one block that keeps it from happening. http://karlstrom.se/kenny/Ufouria(E).rar (url tags is unccoperative - so you have to copy pasta) (I did use savestates, but no slowdown when I recorded that. So it's definitely not optimized, I couldn't be arsed to fix every single mistake, and there's some fooling around. I only did it to show the glitch. PAL emulation was on.) So sadly it looks like all that can be done with it is skipping Bop-Louie's Secret Weapon, since you have to get one weapon regardless... only cutting one boss fight isn't really the gamebreaker I had hoped for...
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Well, it's a start. That's a very nice trick. If it is really possible to skip Shades with PAL emulation on (which I doubt, I tried many times) then we're getting there. I wonder what happens if you could get Shades' secret weapon without Shades. It would require some super secret glitch to do that, though. (that jump really does require Shades, even with PAL emulation off)
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Blublu wrote:
(that jump really does require Shades, even with PAL emulation off)
...unless you have Bop-Louie's suction cup, as I demonstrated. But then there's the matter of getting the suction cup without Shades.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
KennyMan666 wrote:
Blublu wrote:
(that jump really does require Shades, even with PAL emulation off)
...unless you have Bop-Louie's suction cup, as I demonstrated. But then there's the matter of getting the suction cup without Shades.
Yeah, of course. So actually, you'd only need to cross the other, slightly easier (but still probably impossible), gap. edit: Wow, I was somehow able to miss Fihlvein's post that he was really able to make the jump. But his movie link isn't working. I'm going to PM him and ask him about it. (I'm way too lazy to try it myself)
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I actually have that fcm saved... if you don't get a reply from him, I could upload it.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Yes, please upload it. Not for me, but for others who might run this game. I am not doing it. :P
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
^That is simply awesome. Great discovery by Fihlvein. I guess I was not persistent enough. Now the following can be skipped: Shades (woohoo!) Bob-louie's secret weapon (get Shades' instead and use the switch-trick to beat the armor guy) (Edit: actually ... I still don't know what happens if you get Shades' secret weapon without Shades, so maybe forget skipping Bob's secret weapon ... anyone care to try it and see what happens? Although I guess you can use Gil's secret weapon to switch-trick the armor guy instead of Shades' ... I have completely forgotten the route now and don't know well it fits with the current route, maybe it needs to be changed drastically)
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I'm supposed to be some kind of expert on this game, so let's see here... I should be able to come up with a route, skipping that stuff. And without Shades, you have noone to START charging his secret weapon, so you can't switch out of it. So what will be picked up, except for the keys, is the Suction Cup and Gil's secret weapon... So. Start > Freeon-Leeon > Tree area, return egg to bird (I'm not sure if that long jump on the way back to skip half the tree is possible without Shades) > Go to heaven > Bop-Louie's Suction Cup > Use door in ice cave to teleport to gate room > Gil > Blue key > Back to tree area > Over with bird, use suction cup for some shortcuts > Gil's secret weapon > Red key > Use door in ice cave to teleport to gate room > Dark area > Green key > Unyo That's what I can come up with off the top of my head. Without Shades, I think you'll have to switch into and use Freeon-Leeon's secret weapon to get past the lava leading to the red key, since one probably only will have 10 hp at this point. Then there's just the question of the boss guarding Gil's secret weapon - I have found that the fastest way to defeat him is by taking damage (as demonstrated in my speedrun that's up on SDA). To use that strategy a medicine would obviously have to be picked up. There's two that's pretty much in the way - one in the gate room, which you have to jump over to skip, and one just at the entrance down to the caves in which Gil's secret weapon resides. But maybe someone is able to find a better strategy on that boss?
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
You only need one medicine bottle. For the big lava pits, just bounce on as many enemies as possible with Bop, then take a hit on the last one. Then use the short invincibility time to walk on the bottom of the lava with Gil. You can make it pretty nicely without taking any more damage. You do not need Shades or Freeon-leeon or any secret weapons. I wonder if manipulating enemies into dropping energy balls would be faster than grabbing the medicine... Here's the current route as I envision it: Start Get Freeon-Leeon Cross ice-area (use Freeon-Leeon) Cross gap without Shades, move up Tree area (get egg and return it to bird) Go back and up, across clouds, defeat boss and get suction cup Go down Enter gate room from Ice Cave {get medicine if it's faster than manipulating enemies along the way} Get Gil and Red Key Choose the faster path of these two (test both): 1. Go down, to starting area, right and dive into the water (the first body of water encountered in the game) , go right at the first intersection, then right again, through pipe, then up twice. You'll come up in a lake to the left of the tree area. OR instead of coming up in that lake, go right at the last intersection and come up on the tree area lake instead. 2. Go back to the throne room, go through it, climb up ice wall, go right, climb up, then go right again (you'll encounter the lake to the left of the tree area) Go through tree area (faster than the previous time because of suction cup), Take a ride with the bird, climb up a wall, go right, enter cave activate water faucet, enter newly accessable water tunnel Go through extremely long water maze with Gil Kill boss and get Gil's seret weapon. Go back From tree area lake, choose the faster path from these two (test both): 1. Go left and up, come up in lake to the left of tree area. Then go left again and down megashaft. Now go right from the botton and bomb the wall with Gil's secret weapon. 2. Go left and then down, right, through megashaft pipe, down and left. Get out of the water in the mines, leave the mines to the right (where you normally first enter them). Now go right and bomb the wall with Gil's secret weapon. Cross the lava pits using the strategy I mentioned earlier, kill armor guy, get Blue key. Head back and go up megashaft. Enter gate room from the Ice Cave, go through. Bomb through 999 walls with Gil's secret weapon, get Green key. Go back to the gate room, kill boss By the way, there's a great map for the game here: http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/Ufouria-TheSaga-Ufouria.png It's very easy to plan the route if you have this map. :D Edit: Bleh! Of course, you can just use Gil to charge Bop, so you can skip Bop-louie's secret weapon. Edit: actually, forget that whole route. It could be faster to get Bop-louie's secret weapon after all, so you can enter the water maze from the opposite direction.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Blublu wrote:
Edit: actually, forget that whole route. It could be faster to get Bop-louie's secret weapon after all, so you can enter the water maze from the opposite direction.
...what? If you mean what I think you mean, that idea falls on the fact that only Gil can charge his secret weapon in the water.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Oh, crap. I forgot the water thing. Okay, then I guess the route is not changed.
Fihlvein
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Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 135
Location: Finland Realms
Oh, I'm glad to see there's some activity with this game. I had completely forgotten about this topic right here.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
The gap jump is EVIL. EVIL EVIL EVIL. I managed to do it once, but that must have been a lucky fluke, because I have never been able to reproduce it. Not even when using frame advance and jumping on the last frame before falling. That's about what's keeping me from doing at least a complete test run of this game. Thought I had come up with a slightly easier strategy - jumping from the small platform to the left up to the one from which you're doing the gap jump, to build up more speed before the jump... though, no go. Though I haven't tried that with frame advance yet.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
It's actually not that hard to do with tools. Try letting go of forward a frame or two, and just drift forwards. This will displace your sub-pixel position (or some mumbo-jumbo) and will enable you to get across. You can also just resume from this run: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2697/Ufouria_up-to-tree-area%28E%29.fcm (although I'm not so happy with the Freeon-Leeon battle, and I seem to remember there might have been a way to travel across ice faster ... maybe by using Bop-Louie for the parts that don't require jumping ... or something else I'm too lazy to research).
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Ah, you're not using the walk-on-ice glitch I found for my speedrun. When on ice with Freeon, starting with holding forwards, doing a quartercircle and ending with holding down, you'll keep going forwards. Walking speed is the same, but jumping speed is increased so you jump the same speed as you're walking. If that made any sense. I'm using it in the half-assisted fcm I made to demonstrate the switch trick.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Former player
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 37
Location: Finland
I just finished Ice cave and im 190 frames ahead blublus wip. - 1 Frame improved by jumping 1 frame later on that rope at the beginning - 12 Frames after the bounce in cave the green enemy comes closer than blublus run(?) so i can land on it and i dont have to slowdown - 99 Frames improved at Freeon-Leeon battle(I think i can still improve it i will try later) - 78 Frames at ice cave by using that jumping glitch http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4332/ufouria.fcm
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Looking sweet, hope you finish this.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
That is really cool. I didn't know my Freeon-leeon battle could be improved by that much! :P
Former player
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 37
Location: Finland
That gapjump is impossible... I watched blublu wip with frame advance and it looks so simple but i cant get it to work.
Former player
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 37
Location: Finland
Forest Done Okay the gapjump was easy after i understood what blublu meaned with that mumbo-jumbo thing. I improved 16 frames more but i lost 14 frames at swimming part because of some weird lag i think I even did the part exactly same like blublu but still i lose 14 frames. Also improved Freeon-Leeon battle 8 frames more.
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
About the swimming. Did you make sure to drift forwards after switching to Freeon-leeon? I think pressing forwards too soon can actually slow you down, since Bop-louie moves faster than Freeon-leeon, and you have Bop-louie's velocity when hitting the water. Am I making any sense at all? Anyway, I think the way I did this is, I jumped as far as possible with Bop-louie, then switched to Freeon-leeon and let him drift forwards, and only pressed forwards when the drifting had slowed down to his normal speed. Something.
Former player
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 37
Location: Finland
Im now at Throne Room I did press forward right away at swimming part i dont know how i was able to miss that when i watched your run with frames advance :P