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Posted: 9/24/2006 7:12 AM
Post subject: Super Dodge Ball
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
Hi guys! I've been watching your (amazing) speedruns for a very long time and I decided to do my own. I picked Super Dodge Ball because back when I was playing the NES it was my very best game (and I've written an FAQ on it). Then when I got on this site, I did a search and noticed a user by the name of "totoro" was doing one as well; I'm using his as a basis for comparison. It's not bad (even though he thinks it's terrible), but I'm gonna shoot for under 10 minutes. I see it as very doable. I'm taking it step by step as it is my first, and it's a WIP. Right now I've killed Fred (the first guy in the All-Stars team) at 350-ish (totoro killed him at 460-ish). Working on how to manipulate luck and such. Wish me luck ;)
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/24/2006 9:19 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Sounds like you're off to a good start. I don't know anything about the game so I can't say anything helpful except good luck.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/25/2006 1:48 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
I completed All-Stars in 1083 frames, which is a 50-frame improvement over totori's. I feel as though I could do better, probably under 1000 if I really tried; but it would take a long time of analyzing computer reactions to my moves and the All-Stars stage has the worst lag in the game. Should I accept my current score and gun for a better one next time, or should I try for the under-1000?
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/25/2006 3:54 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
IMO, you should do whatever you stand to learn the most from for the least amount of time and effort. Whatever that is, is your call. I'm glad someone's picked up another Technos game. Rock on, Dasrik.
Posted: 9/25/2006 4:09 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
Thanks, Dromiceius! :) Finished England in 950 frames, which is much better than totori's 1432. Next is India, which will probably be quicker since I can make sure Swami's not on the team.
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/25/2006 5:04 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Keep in mind that if you know how to improve it or are sure it can be improved, especially from the early stages of making it, you will probably need to redo it if you want it to be accepted/published here. Also, I think you should post your progress so far (using microstorage) in case other people will have comments on what you've done.
Posted: 9/25/2006 5:12 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
Thanks. :) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2094/SDB%20to%20India.fcm Getting Swami off the team was definitely worth it, as I beat India in 1354 frames (vs. totori's 4786). There's certainly room for possible improvement, particularly where Sam kills Rajiv. The actual run I'll present will be optimized as hell after I figure out the controls near-100%, but the thing is throwing balls as quickly as possible actually works against you, as it will either be caught or whiff entirely pretty much every time. All the apparent delays in the movie (such as Sam walking down at the beginning of the All-Stars match) are done in order to a) manipulate the CPU to not catch throws, and b) manipulate the target of Super Throws. edit: Optimizing this run is more involved than it first appears. For example, just now, I was able to kill Fred a full 7 frames earlier, however the ball bounced in such a way that Jack was still walking towards the stationary ball at the point where Jack had already thrown the ball in the run above. It's a pain.
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/25/2006 6:50 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2095/All-Stars%20in%201047.fcm I optimized the All-Stars run for 1047 frames (a gain of 36 frames over my last run). The damndest thing is that, as I said, doing things any quicker in the opening causes the CPU to catch my attacks. What's more, Steve (the outside man) actually has to wait 4 frames to attack Tom, otherwise the attack, while doing the same amount of damage, won't kill him. :/ Using this current strategy, I believe 1047 frames is the best I'm going to get.
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/25/2006 7:02 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Wait a minute... Dasrik, have you considered TASing the SNES version of this game?
Posted: 9/25/2006 7:17 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
There's also a GBA version (and probably some others). I was going to suggest it because the NES clearly has a lot of trouble handling this game, but he has made it a lot faster than I thought it would be with all the lag.
Posted: 9/25/2006 8:30 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
I would like to do the SNES and GBA versions sometime, when I can "get my hands" on them. But the NES version is the one I know best, and it's my baby :) England at 870 frames: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2098/Allstars%201047%20England%20836.fcm Being able to hit the entire team with Sam's Blaster at the beginning helped a lot. edit: messed up frame count
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/25/2006 1:05 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I always figured even a good run of this game would be somewhat boring due to repetition, even though I really like the music of this game. Boy was I wrong! This looks great so far. Hopefully these crazy performances can last throughout and remain entertaining.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/26/2006 3:19 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
God, my notes are insanely detailed. I hope someone reads them once I'm done with this movie!
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/26/2006 4:27 AM
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VANDAL
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
Wow, this is pretty damn well executed. Keep up the good work.
Posted: 9/26/2006 6:35 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2115/Current%20Dodgeball%20movie.fcm Finished India (showing off a really cool glitch) and Iceland. Iceland's time is 2204 frames, which feels bad to me, but I couldn't do much more about Helgi's AI catching all the best shots I had. There's a point where I could get a clean 9 points of damage off of Helgi, but it wouldn't give me enough time to turn around, hit Knut and then turn around and do the Power Shot again. There's probably room for improvement here, but the finicky AI isn't giving me a lot of leeway. I feel much better about India (1199 frames! Yowza! +155 over my last one!)
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/27/2006 3:20 AM
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hippo
Joined: 5/22/2006
Posts: 58
Location: Denver, CO USA
this is looking really good so far, i was a little bit hesitant about a dodgeball movie but this is really well done, keep up the good work!
What would Mr Belvedere do? Probably eat some butter.
Posted: 9/28/2006 8:20 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
I finished China and Kenya. China was done quicker than India, but Kenya's my second longest match so far, mostly because Taha is tied for second most resilient character in the game, and manipulating him off the team takes too long to be worth it. Will post movie tomorrow afternoon maybe, hopefully I'll have at least done Japan by then.
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/29/2006 6:42 AM
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Mr._Kelly_R._Flewin
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
I must admit, this run has got me excited due to the insane speed of which this game is going to be pwned. It's a tough challenge on a console, so I'm definitely watching the forums for the next update ^^ Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Posted: 9/29/2006 6:55 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2140/Current%20Dodgeball%20movie.fcm Ignore the crappy Japan part. And yeah, I'm expecting to get pwned myself; but be forewarned that the AI is very tough to manipulate.
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/29/2006 6:58 AM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
I certainly found this one amusing. It might get too repetitive after a while though. Looking forward to this.
Posted: 9/30/2006 12:53 AM
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
I'm not feeling well, so the run probably won't be done this weekend like I hoped. :(
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 9/30/2006 5:39 AM
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hippo
Joined: 5/22/2006
Posts: 58
Location: Denver, CO USA
hope you get some rest this weekend, really looking forward to seeing this movie, your wips are great =)
What would Mr Belvedere do? Probably eat some butter.
Posted: 9/30/2006 9:14 AM
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1ntru
Joined: 5/15/2006
Posts: 102
WIP is looking really great can't wait to see the final run :)
Posted: 10/1/2006 8:49 AM
(Edited: 11/22/2008 4:34 PM)
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Dasrik
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
Well, I finished the game (20864 frames), but I'm somewhat disappointed overall. Japan and Shadow team's AI are too difficult to manipulate and as a result it looks somewhat boring, unless you like Sam's Blaster shot hitting people again and again. I'll see what I can do and post it tomorrow.
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
Posted: 10/2/2006 2:07 AM
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1ntru
Joined: 5/15/2006
Posts: 102
Dasrik wrote:
Well, I finished the game (20864 frames), but I'm somewhat disappointed overall. Japan and Shadow team's AI are too difficult to manipulate and as a result it look somewhat boring, unless you like Sam's Blaster shot hitting people again and again. I'll see what I can do and post it tomorrow.
Is the AI impossible to or just difficult to manipulate? Because if its just difficult, I really think you should just try a lil bit harder! Just a thought tho!
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