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Posted: 10/10/2005 9:21 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Sorry, I have nothing new to report at this point. The sound error is annoying and I am unable to solve it on my own. I feel it's useless to continue recording anything until the sound error is corrected. Nevertheless, strategies and ideas are still worth discussing. Having units standing on destructed buildings seems to make it impossible for the enemy to rebuild them. It would be good to know more about how the AI manages stuff. Uhh, this game has so unfair computer opponent.
Posted: 10/10/2005 10:07 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Aqfaq wrote:
Having units standing on destructed buildings seems to make it impossible for the enemy to rebuild them
Oh. Thats one of the things I forgot to mention in the above post. It does NOT help placing units where enemy structure is used to spawn. Thats why I'm so careful in my demo run. Otherwise I would manage to kick the enemy goodbye in about 15min. :D About the sound, again. I did not get the sound error the second try I made. However I did not record it. So one might need to reply the movie now and then to make sure nothing freaks out. I don't know what triggers the sound to go "biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii". Did you check in any other emulators, such as Kgen or Genecyst? I don't remember having any problems with those emus years back. Either way they won't help us. Just good to know wether it's a problem in Gens or wether it's a problem with the rom.
Posted: 10/14/2005 2:20 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
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I tested Genecyst briefly and no sound bug occurred. This confirms (slightly) the assumption that it is Gens that fails, not the rom.
Posted: 10/15/2005 12:41 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
http://133an.sytes.net/~highness/Dune_-_The_Battle_for_Arrakis-Test2-ByHighness.zip No sound bug appearing in that movie. A pretty crappy played movie though. But it was for testing purposes. I'm trying to manipulate the fremens to land where I want them. Also I build MCV to force away enemy buildings. This can be used in a more efficient way I think. :)
Posted: 10/19/2005 9:41 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
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Highness, your latest movie desyncs. (I even tried with different versions of Gens.) :/
Posted: 10/20/2005 12:12 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
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Oooops! Forgot to check for desyncs. But atleast the sound seems OK through the entire movie right? =D I ran it with frame skip 8 so.. :) I suppose we just need to check from time to time if the sound goes "Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii" again. Also check for desyncs. Weird though. It didn't desync first time I made a long movie out of it.
Posted: 10/20/2005 2:39 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
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Even without the desync & sound problems, making this multihour movie would be an enormous task. It is crazy to try recording anything decent when those critical problems are unsolved. I lack the skill required to solve the remaining problems. To be honest, I'm completely lost here. It seems that Highness is almost as helpless as I am. There are surely many skilled persons around here who can easily see what the problems are about. Is it just that nobody else is genuinely interested in this project?
Posted: 10/20/2005 7:23 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Perhaps not. But I still think you should try to record atleast the last mission Aqfaq. As perfect as you can. Atleast it would be good to set some kind of standard. 1. Build windtrap 2. Refinery 3. Vehicle factory 4. Build 3-4 harvesters 5. Get some defence 6. Get a palace 7. Produce MCV 8. Produce some rocket launchers. 9. Get into fight. 10. Make a new construction yard at enemy terretory. 11. Get your new command center heavily defended. 12. Place rocket turrets where old enemy buildings were.
Posted: 10/21/2005 12:16 AM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
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Highness wrote:
But I still think you should try to record atleast the last mission Aqfaq. As perfect as you can.
Thanks for encouragement, but I'm unable to do that at the moment. The sound goes *error-error* way too often for my patience. I believe that (for the players) the point of timeattacking is to play within the limits of the game universe. What you suggest now is that we should accept the sound problem and play a game called "Gens". Well, I can't play that game. I'd really enjoy making the last mission as well as I could, but that is not possible at the moment. Project Status: No fun - no run.
Posted: 10/21/2005 6:21 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Well.. The thing still is that I only encountered the sound bug once. So I still think you could work around it. I still don't know what triggers it. But I really beleive it's manipulatible.
Posted: 10/21/2005 12:49 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
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Let's compare the roms... Battle for Arrakis (E): 50fps, sound problem (and desync problem?) Building of a Dynasty (U): 60fps, desync problem Maybe we should forget the european rom. Oh, I tried to search for Gens sound guide or FAQ of some sort, but failed to find any useful information.
Posted: 10/22/2005 12:33 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
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The european rom has desynced less for me than the american rom. So it might have been me screwing around with something that caused the desync. Perhaps loading wrong save state or what ever?
Posted: 10/22/2005 2:24 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
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Did you try all the usual stuff - recording with 3-button controllers, different sound frequencies? Does it desync even if you record with no sound at all?
Posted: 12/29/2005 11:28 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Found some cool glitches or "cheats" while browsing around som pages. Allthough these are for PC, perhaps some might work for Sega. About what you said Truncated, this is still unverified. Making a unit move quicker This one is fairly easy - units that you can see on the viewing screen move faster than the ones that you can not. The difference is significant enough to shake a trike out of a quad's tail. Making an enemy harvester stand still For this one you will have to sacrifice one soldier or trooper. Find the whereabouts of the enemy harvester, take one soldier and tell it to attack it. Once the harvester takes one shot, it will try to take the poor soldier out by squashing him. When this harvester starts to chase him around just keep moving. Eventually it will crush him and a very weird thing happens - it stops still, and never moves again; unless he gets hit by another soldier. Note - don't destroy it - the free replacement for this harvester will function normally. Tricks with game speed On the slowest game speed rocket launchers have the best accuracy and can shoot a target next to them. On the highest game speed Sonic tanks have medium firing rate and the longest range. If you are playing Ordos and are using a Deviator tank, set the game speed on highest and then just before the shot occurs set it on slowest. The Deviator should shoot about three to five rockets at once. Also if you're using Ordos - a deviated unit stays under your control for a longer peroid of time if game speed is set on highest. Spice machinations To get some free spice fill a harvester with spice to full capacity. It must be one hundred percent. Move it over the clear area of sand and destroy it. A huge spot of spice will be formed in its place. Wait for a replacement or buy a new harvester and send it over to collect spice on that spot. The amount of money collected on that spot will be worth around one thousand eight hundred credits - six hundred (the cost of a new harvester) - seven hundred (the spice that was inside the harvester) = five hundred credits without losing any spice. This is especially useful on a level with small spice amounts. House weapons tips Harkonen Devastator - this one is better as a tank than a remote mine. Each of his shots has 85% of the power of a missile and is more accurate. It does much more carnage when detonated, then when it is killed. Harkonen Death Hand This weapon is super destructive and super inaccurate. Before you shoot this one save the game. Then shoot the missile and if it wasn't a nice hit, reload and shoot again. Ordos Deviator It can brainwash any unit and place it under your control. However, once this unit gets shot once or a certain amount of time passes it goes back to normal. There is a way around it. Once a unit gets deviated, send it to a place where it is likely to get shot by its own units. While it's going click on the task you want it to perform (usually attack) but don't assign it to it yet. Wait for the unit to get back to normal and then assign it. The ideal task is to send it to attack its own base. It is going to obey that last command you gave him and shoot at the building you assigned but it is no longer your color and no defensive systems will shoot at it. Ordos Sabouteur Try using this guy for taking out rocket launchers and turrets. Atredies Sonic Tank A sonic pulse passes right through its target so it can be used against a series of targets. If you are able to capture the enemy Heavy Factory and build your own Sonic Tank, it will not be able to inflict any damage on another Sonic Tank. Fremen They can do some damage to an enemy base but don't rely on them - they are stupid.
Posted: 12/30/2005 3:00 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Nice. Hopefully some of those work in the Genesis version. The trick with Ordos Deviator is very neat! I've had no time/interest to mess with this recently. This game is luck manipulation hell. :)
Posted: 12/31/2005 2:47 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
If that deviator trick works in genesis I suspect ordos will have one of the upperhands when it comes to TAS:ing this game. Imagine destroying the command center first thing without being killed off. Then all you would have to do is blitzkreig the enemy base. *drool*
Posted: 9/20/2006 10:58 AM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
Joined: 4/8/2005
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
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Gens 9J is super cool! Now it's possible to disable the fog of war (graphics layer 3). This will make planning the routes and observing enemy movements very much easier.
Posted: 9/20/2006 2:42 PM
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Truncated
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Sounds great Aqfaq. I would like to see a movie of this game... but, is the desynch issue solved?
Posted: 9/20/2006 4:06 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
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The desynch issue is not solved yet. I'm going to test all the controller/sound settings now with Gens 9J. --- Edit: Hey, this is nice, Gens 9J gives a warning message: "Saving during DMA transfer; savestate may be corrupt. Try advancing the frame and saving again." Cool. --- Edit-2: I think recording should be manageable with 22050 sound rate and 3-button controller. Let's see... --- Edit-3: The probability of a desynch was greatly reduced with 22050 sound, but it's still not fun enough.
Posted: 9/20/2006 9:54 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
So is the DMA transfer one of the issues? If those warnings are showing it's possible to fool the game somehow right?
Posted: 9/20/2006 9:59 PM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
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Highness wrote:
So is the DMA transfer one of the issues? If those warnings are showing it's possible to fool the game somehow right?
Hmm, like saving on the frames on which the DMA transfer does not occur? It depends on how long does it take…
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 9/20/2006 10:02 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I guess I could wait a couple of frames to save a state. Shoulden't be to much of a problem.
Posted: 9/20/2006 11:07 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2479)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Highness wrote:
So is the DMA transfer one of the issues?
Yes, but I'm afraid there's more than that. I recorded a broken movie without getting DMA transfer warnings at all.
Posted: 9/21/2006 2:20 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
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There were some other warnings that were disabled because they would happen almost all the time in some games... Probably should add some options to enable them, if not fix the issues behind them. One bug that hasn't been tracked down is that sometimes when you load a savestate, it will think a different button is being pressed than what you were pressing when you made the savestate (it won't show it in the input display or record it in the movie, but the game will act like you pressed it). So keep that in mind when loading a savestate. If the cursor starts moving before you thought you told it to, or something like that, it could be that bug happening. 3 buttons vs. 6 buttons: I don't think it matters at all.
Posted: 11/19/2006 12:28 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I recorded a test movie using cheatcodes and no re-recording. Seems to playback just fine. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2794/Dune%20-%20The%20Battle%20for%20Arrakis%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv Note that I play at full speed and goof around alot.
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