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Firstly this is my first ever submitted TAS and secondly I could hardly of picked a more difficult and cursed game. I wasn’t really aware of that to begin with, but that was probably the factor that got me through in the end, since during the Marble to Labyrinth stages I constantly had “Oh no am I gonna be next to drop next to drop this game”. The whole process from begining to end, starting from being mildly interested to finally submitting it took about four months, but there was maybe six to seven weeks where I didn’t do any work on it whatsoever. I did a test run up until the point where I collect the last emerald in mainly 3-10% speeds with no frame counter, it was mainly just to get an idea and understanding of the game and to work out how to use GENS. The real run used 3% speed in the first stage and then frame advance from there on in.
I like to thank mainly JXQ for his great coaching and his previous run which I treated like a natural intended path. Although there was no justification for thinking it at the time, I was actually worried incase he was offended by my run for taking his ideas and applying them in a way that he would not approve. I wouldn’t personally be to bothered if someone wants to lower the ingame timer (as opposed to the real game time) by not stopping to avoid larger bonuses that impact on time and then copying my input from all the other stages. On a side note I’d like to thank Xebra for his various tips at the start, nfq for his various WIP’s at the start, which I was able to improve on later and philipptr for his WIP’s on the special stages.
  • Aims to collect all emeralds
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Avoid delays caused by bonus effects
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses left+right movement
  • Aims for a low score
The most unique aspect of this run was delaying to avoid larger bonuses, but if I’m able to complete a stage in less than 23:333... Then I would do that. To those who disprove of that I would argue that this has a minimal effect on the overall run. However, there were three reasons for doing it
  1. Complaints that real time runs were being timed unfairly i.e. stages where being timed individually while other games included the delays inbetween as well.
  2. It makes it easier overall, but I tried to be as fast as possible while skidding just before the end. It also differentiates this from the previous in game run.
  3. It’s a goal that’s consistent throughout the game, e.g. the amount of rings has an effect on the end stage bonus, while getting +50 rings has a large delay caused by getting an extra continue.
Some say the special stages are boring, but I think that’s purely because of the simple backgrounds and music. I didn’t find them boring to work on, but they were very frustrating because of the dodgy programming involved. The stages jerk once every eight frames making the future very hard to predict. Unlike normal stages nearly all the collision is square, making corner collisions a near formality, but I took advantage of this by this using this feature to kill off and control Sonics speed. I fairly sure that most stages were done to an optimal standard. I especially enjoyed stages where bouncers could be manipulated.
Points of interest
  • Green Hill 2 - This is too difficult to see in real time but at the start when sonic hits the bee and goes through the wall he partially zips through it at the end which saves 20 frames over what would normally be done.
  • Marble 1 - I’ve actually done this quicker than the ingame run despite the fact I’ve collected +50 rings
  • Marble 2 - This took an insane amount of planning. Everthing was planned to the last detail beforehand.
  • Marble 3 - Before the end I was 11 frames ahead, but the moving platform was higher up so I had to increment it by two units costing 10 frames.
  • Spring Yard 3 - I personally found this the most frustrating stage to work on because of the timed delays, lag and position of moving platforms and slight randomess of how sonic reacts to and lands on certain platforms .
  • Star Light 2 - If you jump at certain frame while going fast up a slope Sonic will hit a ceiling boundary and his X coordinate will not increment he can move normally once he’s back on his feet. I took my time in gaining the fastest speed possible during the sine wave section.I could almost clear the second wall, but I had to let go of all input so that Sonic would sucessfully land on the platform below. Left+Right halfs Sonics velocity in a single frame during his running animation. This was a great surprise since I thought it was unlikely to come off. I’m kind of on a fence on whether Marble 1 or this stage was the highlight, I’ll let others peoples opinion dictate this .
  • Star Light 3 - Getting 45 was intentional to avoid getting a higher bonus thus saving 44 frames
  • Scrap Brain 1 - Refer to JXQ’s commentary if you don’t know what happens during the start.
  • Final Zone - I tried to do a little jig during it and also get 1:14 but the purpose of doing that was to terminate the movie as early as possible, it could be cancelled if sonic is moved to the left or is killed by jumping off the end of the stage.
Suggested description: Sonic’s first installement on the Mega Drive. Sonic has yet to learn the art of spin dashing. With the curse broken on this game, it was time to remove the all emerald curse, which has blighted the Sonic world.
Suggested Screenshot: Frame 00:59:16 or 3:58:37

Truncated: I fixed the formatting since it was destroying the forum layout. Don't start lines with a space unless you want monospace font. Don't start lines with Tabs at all.

adelikat: Rejecting this submission. All reasons have been well articulated in posts in the discussion. The main reason though is that the goals are not a publishable "category" of run.
1) It is far too similar to the current published run (it is 90% the same run) to warrant being published along side it.
Overall, obtaining emeralds makes it less entertaining than current run, making it a poor choice to obsolete it.
Therefore, the only reasonable choice is to reject the submission. Congratulations on making the highest quality run I have ever rejected though :) I hope you take what you have learned from this run and make an improved version of the current run. Good luck.


Mitjitsu
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upthorn wrote:
The one that really struck me was at the end of marble zone 2. There are some platforms hanging above lava, and 6 rings in between them. You slow down to collect those 6 rings, but there are 14 rings earlier in the level that you didn't get. If you hadn't had to collect those 6 rings, you could have cleared that area a couple of seconds faster.
I thought you might say that, but there were a total of 55 rings I could of collected. Unless you're including the tele ring boxes which are completely out of the question to get. Even If I collected all the rings before then, I still would have needed to take a dip in the lava to get another ring and the other 5 I avoided would have caused sonic to either bumb into an object or to signifcant slow down his speed.
upthorn wrote:
AKA: Though, the least you could do is make Sonic do something random in the idle time.
What do you mean? I thought the time was passed reasonably well. Although I'm in a very biased postion I did do a lot more than what JXQ did. A lot of the stages he didn't do anything other than just remain off screen.
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upthorn, I disagree about the waiting at the end of an act. There's nothing more boring than waiting for the damn score counter to go away (in this game, anyways). If a run wants to be entertaining, having a 50,000 point bonus ticking away for a full 7 seconds is certainly not helpful. AKA: Though, the least you could do is make Sonic do something random in the idle time.
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bobxp wrote:
AKA: Though, the least you could do is make Sonic do something random in the idle time.
Sonic glitched pretty bad during one fadeout. I think it was one of the starlights that he did that.
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Overall I liked this run. There were decisions the author made that I obviously would have made differently (since I made those decisions differently when I ran the game), but the only one that actually bugged me was not hitting Robotnik one last time at the end. I really enjoyed the second half a bit more since I got to compare it against my run, and it was cool seeing myself be obsoleted. Anyway, the minor differences aren't enough to stop entertainment for me, so I vote yes.
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I voted yes, although somewhat reluctantly. I don't think it's a great idea to begin with, like others have stated. Some of the stylistic choices made the movie much less enjoyable to me as well, especially when comparing it to the existing run. And yeah, not ending the game was not a good call I think. I'd feel much better about voting yes if the game actually did end, I hope this is fixed.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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JXQ wrote:
and it was cool seeing myself be obsoleted.
Not only part of your run, but you yourself have been obsoleted? I would think that would hurt. Seriously, it looks like this run was executed well, but despite the effort that must have gone into those 50-ring routes, the most entertaining parts to me were the levels where AKA didn't get a Chaos Emerald, so I think a straight improvement of the previous run without changing goals so much would have been more fun to watch. The bonus stages didn't seem as boring as some people say they were, but there was nothing really surprising about them either.
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JXQ wrote:
The decision bugged me was not hitting Robotnik one last time at the end.
I take that because you did it and I didn't. I was going for real game time which meant terminating the movie as early as possible and on another note from the very start I wanted to see if it was possible to break 21mins for a movie lenght and I did. I don't know if I'd want to do another run that obseletes yours. I could do a few stages through stage select and hex edit all the rest in. I fairly certain that its possible to knock 2 seconds off yours. In my defence the bonus levels are much better than Sonic 2 or 3. If you were to take away the fancy 3D tunnel and more updated music, then it wouldn't be much fun. I was strongly consisdering Sonic 2 until I saw quietrust's run, I couldn't think of many improvements to it other than sing tails as an assist and the planning for getting the chaos emeralds was beyond me, and I didn't know whats decisions based on entertainment I could make. The other motivation for doing this run was to encourage more people to do runs where runs where Sonic collects all emeralds.
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I watched it and immediately thought once it hit Spring Yard 3: "JXQ v2.0". That, of course, is not a bad thing, as JXQ's run is spectacular. Basically my vote focuses on the first eight acts, which I thought were done pretty well. I'm not fond of the choice to stop to save real time, but each to their own. Voting yes.
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Isn't it in the guidelines or somewhere that the game should end? You guys know we can still control Sonic after this run is finished, right? We have to go to the right manually to end the game and get the ending credits and stuff. There's no excuse for this in my book.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Mitjitsu
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The exact termination point is subject to debate. We have seen these options: Ending the movie as soon as possible (when no further input is needed to complete the game). Pros: Shortest possible movies (as for frame count); easy to compare competing movies Cons: Aiming for this goal might sometimes cause the game to end slower than with option 3; sometimes, movie is ended before the game is actually over Ending the movie at the first possible moment where the ending of the game can not be prevented by providing more input. Pros: When watching the movie on an emulator, accidentally touching the controlling keys will not prevent the game from completing Cons: Longer movies than “shortest possible”, yet movies are ended before the commonly established “last hit” is delivered Ending the movie at the moment the player character halts/last shot has been delivered Pros: Common ground makes it easy to compare competing movies Cons: Exact definition depends on the game and is subject to debate Ending the movie when the ending is over (“the end”). Pros: “Movie end” text will not appear prematurely Cons: Needlessly long movie files Its a grey area I'm afraid, if I'm going for the shortest movie time I'm gonna have to terminate as early as possible. If I have to hit robotnik then I won't break 21 mins.
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Is it necessary to hit Robotnik? I thought you just had to move to the right and the game would end, no matter if you hit Robotnik. I can live without the Robotnik hit for sure, but I hope a run which doesn't end the game doesn't get accepted, and I would change my vote to no if I could, for the time being.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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Its only neccsary to make Robotnik jump into his vehicle, because I termitated so early it caused him to enter slower. It wouldn't be even much bother to make sonic run along to the end, it would take seconds for one of the judges to modify it for that purpose.
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AKA wrote:
Its only neccsary to make Robotnik jump into his vehicle, because I termitated so early it caused him to enter slower. It wouldn't be even much bother to make sonic run along to the end, it would take seconds for one of the judges to modify it for that purpose.
I don't understand what you're saying. Because you terminated so early, the game does not end. Right? I don't see how it's a judge's job to modify the submitted run, I imagine that's up to the author.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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Cue trivial debate.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
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atro city wrote:
Cue trivial debate.
I don't understand this either. Are you saying I'm an idiot for objecting to the way the run ends?
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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No, I'm just saying it's trivial.
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Trivial means unimportant/irrelevant, right?
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Mitjitsu
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Fabian wrote:
Trivial means unimportant/irrelevant, right?
It can mean that, but it also means easy. I guess Atro uses the wrong wording to express his opinion in a way that could easily be misunderstood. The game does end right the purpose of the movie was to finish it with all emeralds in the fastest possible time by all means neccesary. The movie did end correctly. Of course the audience could quickly mess with the input to delay or even kill sonic, heck I've even made JXQ miss Robotnik and then killed him.
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AKA,
Fabian wrote:
AKA wrote:
Its only neccsary to make Robotnik jump into his vehicle, because I termitated so early it caused him to enter slower. It wouldn't be even much bother to make sonic run along to the end, it would take seconds for one of the judges to modify it for that purpose.
I don't understand what you're saying. Because you terminated so early, the game does not end. Right?
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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Quote from Rules:
Rules wrote:
However, there is one common trait that must be fulfilled: The movie must complete the game without viewer’s intervention. ...
You must complete the game. This includes the ending ("the end") and credits.
Mitjitsu
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FractalFusion wrote:
Quote from Rules:
Rules wrote:
However, there is one common trait that must be fulfilled: The movie must complete the game without viewer’s intervention. ...
You must complete the game. This includes the ending ("the end") and credits.
The game is complete if the inputs are left alone. Providing left isn't being held or sonic is made to jump off at the end. Like I just said I was able to prevent JXQ from completing the Final Zone.
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He did complete the game. Hitting Robotnik at the end is optional and the game does show the end credits. (edited for typo)
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Sorry. I watched the run and it does end. The way Fabian described it, I thought it didn't end.
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I enjoyed watching this run a lot. I don't really consider the special stages particularly boring. I've never got all the emeralds in this game... it was cool to see. As for whether this is worth publishing as a 100% run (a debate that was left aside for a new one about a page ago): It makes more sense to me to allow more than one run of a game that allows different endings or recorded amounts of completion (ie. Super Mario World, any Metroid, Sonic Games) than it does to include variants on a game that always ends the same way (ie. Super Mario Bros 1-3). I like those SMB1-3 runs, but they seem borderline "no shurikens" to me. They are still imposing a restriction on the player that doesn't exist in the game. If I had to pick between publishing warpless SMB and this run, I'd pick this run. Sonic 1 allows for 100% as well as any%, and SMB is binary (finished fastest or not finished fastest). In any case, I'd rather see all entertaining and qualified movies be published as long the resources exist to support that.
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In my opinion: - The wobbling is highly esthetically unpleasing. - I didn't like the decision to delay finishing to get smaller bonuses. It gives the wrong impression of how fast you really finished the level, as well as looking stupid. - I think input length only should be minimized as long as it doesn't delay the completion of the game. Use as much input as needed, but not less. - The bonus stages themselves are okay, but slowing down for the rings and taking less damage is not. All in all I'd rather see the Emeralds skipped. This seems like a rather negative review of an overall outstanding first submission, but all of those can be rectified for an all emerald run, except of course for the last point. I think you would have much more success with an attempt to obsolete JXQ's run, but I can imagine voting Yes to an improved all-emerald run also. Just not this one.