No, that wastes time climbing Spiral Mountain twice.
Not if that is the last 100 percent thing he gets.
So instead of having the last input frame be on the final egg shot into the jinjonator, it should be after all the credits are done? Haha. I mean, sure, 6 honeycombs are useless play-wise since they don't give you a 9th honeycomb piece, but since this is a 100% run, they need to be collected and collecting them before anything else is the fastest way. Unless you can convince us that there is a way during gameplay to come back to spiral mountain and then go back into the lair and continue the game in less than 30 seconds, and you can show that getting these with some other move gained in the game can speed up the process more than it already is, this is not worth mentioning again. :/
jsmith: nice! that climbing trick might be useful for getting chimpy's orange, but it will certainly be abused in rusty bucket bay and clanker's cavern :D
I feel that the beak bomb slide tests I did are important enough to warrent a long post of their own. Sorry about the length and the double post.
Background:The Freezeezy Beak Bomb Slide(1) seems to indicate that when you pull out of a beak bomb and land at the same time, you keep beak bomb speed for at least one frame on the ground. Furthermore, it is common knowledge that when you start a flipflap jump while moving, you keep your previous speed until you launch the jump. Finally the Rolling Flipflap Jump technique(2) shows that you can start a flipflap jump any time you are considered on the ground and can jump, even if Banjo has not yet crouched.
Hypothesis:The frame you land and pull out of a beak bomb, you can begin a flipflap jump. While winding up for the jump you will keep beak bombing speed.
Procedure:1)Locate a flight pad-target combination for which I can land a beak bomb in the proper manner shortly after launching with a high success rate.
2)In each trial, land a beak bomb on the target and attempt to backflip the instant I land.
3)If the result was a crash, throw out the trial and repeat. Otherwise, record the results.
The chosen target was the platform in Treasure Trove Cove where Bottles teaches the Shock Spring Jump. The chosen flight pad was the second one around the upper level of the course in the clockwise direction(NOT the one on Blubber's ship). The chosen number of trials was 30(95% confidence level for all failures assuming 10-frame reflexes).
Data:The first 3 non-crash trials all had the same result: Upon landing I began a flipflap jump windup and slid at beak bomb speed while doing so. I decided further trials were redundant.
Analysis:Although the hypothesis had been confirmed, the results of the test were inconsistant with a 1-frame window(>99% confidence). I therefore decided that I must have kept beak-bomb speeds for longer than 1 frame. I repeated the test a few times when I held Z during the landing but did not jump, hoping that the distance travelled would be visible at the least. Upon landing I automatically went into a crouch and slid forward starting at beak-bomb speeds and continuing until friction stopped me! This was reproducable.
Conclusion: It is possible to keep beak bomb speeds upon landing without frame-perfect timing by holding Z when you land.
References:(1)This Thread page 12 post 5
(2)This Thread page 12 post 15
EDIT:Formatted section titles.
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Very good bkDJ although I'm convinced I could cut another second off it maybe even 2 altough most likely 1. I'll have a go at it in a couple of days though, but could you please explain the timing and the button press for that weird feathery flap on a frame by frame basis, but just as I thought the collywobble area can only be entered early if you backflip at the seams. 150 re-records isn't that much for one tricky stunt espeacally as that jump I did to get into the collywobble area took over 300 to do, if you count the early jump at the right running angle as well.
I'm wondering 2 things. 1: why does project64 play this game at 60fps, but mupen64 plays it at 30fps. the missing 2 frames every 4 makes TAS difficult.
Project 64's FPS is not frames per second but fields per second or VI/s in mupen.
Project 64's FPS is not frames per second but fields per second or VI/s in mupen.
But project64 actually looks smoother. Trust me, you can see the difference between 30fps and 60fps. I even ran them side by side to make sure. mupen looks really jerky like that. (yes my comp is good enough to have them both running full speed at the same time)
AKA wrote:
Very good bkDJ although I'm convinced I could cut another second off it maybe even 2 altough most likely 1. I'll have a go at it in a couple of days though, but could you please explain the timing and the button press for that weird feathery flap on a frame by frame basis, but just as I thought the collywobble area can only be entered early if you backflip at the seams. 150 re-records isn't that much for one tricky stunt espeacally as that jump I did to get into the collywobble area took over 300 to do, if you count the early jump at the right running angle as well.
Yeah you could cut maybe a second or so from having a better coliwobble position, other than that though I don't know what I could have done faster. and for the text skip I can't really explain better than I already did. I did it one way to see if it was possible. that took 30 retries. I did it another way when I made the short demo video (20 retries). Then I had to do it an even different way when I did the whole spiral mountain vid (also 20 retries) since the camera was taking a long time to catch up with where I was. If you want frame by frame, get the m64, and get that great input plugin by nitsuja (I ended up using it for more precise straight lines, it really is even better than a gamepad for holding precision), then do frame advace at that part and see what buttons I'm pushing.
The first way I did it I couldn't even jump away from the platform I had to jump towards it, and it let my shadow be over it as long as I was touching the bridge post, and then I had to re-angle myself onto the bridge with a flap.
Oh, and I got out my console and tried to do this. I did the colliwobble jump on the FIRST TRY, what the hell >:( but then I turned too many corners underwater and jumped away from the tree one and I got 2:20 as a final time :/
As far as several recently discovered tricks go, I think there's a generalized programming error here:
I think the game does these in the following order in a frame:
1)Sample the input
2)Check to see if Banjo's activity status(i.e. whether he's standing, beak bombing etc.) should change, but it doesn't actually change it yet.
3)Check to see if Banjo's still on the ground
4)Update Banjo's speed and position.
5)Update Banjo's activity status
Therefore, if his activity changes, he keeps his old speed for another frame.
If he moves so that he's no longer on the ground, he stays on the ground anyway for another frame as far as the game's concerned.
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Don't stress yourself out :). If it causes too much trouble, forget it, and just make a note of it in the comments when you submit the movie.
But then again, looking at your runs, Sami, you tend to strive for perfection :).
A bit before you enter Grunty's Lair, do a roll, but cancel it with a flipflap jump on frame 5 or 6. I believe you will slide faster than walking speed and save about a dozen frames if you enter the lair right before you would jump.
EDIT:...and for 1000 rerecords you may want to consider a 'bot.
EDIT2:I discovered a way to skip the Nipper dialogue completely and beat him in about 2 seconds from first attack frame to last hit, but I don't think it's practical in a speedrun. 5 bonus points if you can guess how.
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I discovered a way to skip the Nipper dialogue completely and beat him in about 2 seconds from first attack frame to last hit, but I don't think it's practical in a speedrun. 5 bonus points if you can guess how.
If it involves going around rather than in front, that might waste more time than how it's done in mashmallow's run (which I should download again since I lost it). Does it involve flying and landing on top of the shell and hitting him from the top?
No, that hits Nipper once and then starts the cutscene when you bounce.
I think the fastest way in a speedrun is to jump over Nipper's right(small) claw and attack. It's possible with the right timing.
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about your jump thing. If I do nothing but roll, the screen blackout is complete on 22842. If I initiate Z+A on frame 22755, -56, -57, -59, -60, or -61, blackout completes at 22839. it complete at normal 22842 if I backflip start on 22758. Weird. Then again maybe not because it could be that it ends on any of the 2 frames previous to -39 for different timings as well since I see one frame and then the frame 3 frames ahead of it 3 times without the 2 in between rendering. (yes that means that when a button gets pushed I sometimes don't see the reaction till 5 frames later.)
I started the jump on 22745-6 (yes, two-frame button presses). and if this is any indication, my crazy dumb jumping I did in my spiral mountian is slower than letting the roll last [22761-22745] = 16 frames. I did indeed let the rolls last longer during my speeds trial. So If I redid it I would let the roll last 16 frames each time instead of 8 to 10.
I'm sorry, if it's just my stupidity but everything before "I did indeed let the rolls last longer during my speeds trial. So If I redid it I would let the roll last 16 frames each time instead of 8 to 10." had me thrown for a loop, then again, I'm not really a very important one to understand this.
I'm sorry, if it's just my stupidity but everything before "I did indeed let the rolls last longer during my speeds trial. So If I redid it I would let the roll last 16 frames each time instead of 8 to 10." had me thrown for a loop, then again, I'm not really a very important one to understand this.
just documented the frame numbers when executing a flip flap ended spiral mountain faster during the final roll than just plain rolling. the final sentence was the most important: the roll boosts banjo during 16 frames, not 10 like I previously though.
edit: VVVV I dunno, I think it's funny, and I'd tune it out after the first few seconds anyway, like I did with oot's hearts. or oot's crazy roll yelling in TSA's speedrun
i like your wip's and tests but for sure this is gonna be a "turn-sound-off" game like zelda:OoT - kazooies "yaaar ohhhh" or something like that makes me go mad ;)
i like your wip's and tests but for sure this is gonna be a "turn-sound-off" game like zelda:OoT - kazooies "yaaar ohhhh" or something like that makes me go mad ;)
Talon Trot and flying will be the main mode of transport throughout the game.
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I had a go at SM and I was quite a bit slower than bkDJ but I did do a couple of bits better than he did.
1. Quicker rock clearence
2. Better log jump to the honeycomb
The collywobble jump drove me mad after hundreds of attempts so I just used bkDJ's file again.
Here it is
http://rapidshare.de/files/30245337/bk_badTAS-bkDJ.m64.html
I'm pretty sure that 2:02 would be a perfect run, since no way does all honeycombs in 1:40 then an exit of 2:00 match up.
I have colliwobble in a much better place now, and if I can just get up, not going to the back of the garden could save a second. As soon as I manage the jump, I will post the m64 for sami or anyone to use.
Climb Ticker's Tower as Banjo, without Talon Trot:
1)Jump onto the second platform.
2)Roll off the platform at an angle.
3)Airjump back onto the platform
4)Repeat 2 and 3 once
5)Roll-airjump to the next platform
6)Repeat 2-5 for each additional platform in the middle.
7)backflip to the next level/exit tower
I haven't made it past the 4th platform on a console, but I think I could manage it with rerecords.
EDIT:Reason:Rolling off the ledge resets the timer that determines when you start sliding.
EDIT2:Got notes on second floor as Banjo.
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Climb Ticker's Tower as Banjo, without Talon Trot:
1)Jump onto the second platform.
2)Roll off the platform at an angle.
3)Airjump back onto the platform
4)Repeat 2 and 3 once
5)Roll-airjump to the next platform
6)Repeat 2-5 for each additional platform in the middle.
7)backflip to the next level/exit tower
I haven't made it past the 4th platform on a console, but I think I could manage it with rerecords.
EDIT:Reason:Rolling off the ledge resets the timer that determines when you start sliding.
But as a termite you don't have the jiggy dance. Unless you can also get the jiggy at the top of mumbo's mountain's entrace without the termite, I don't think this is a timesaver :(
Oh, and I HATE this retarded colliwobble jump. so close, yet so far away.
