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Posted: 8/18/2006 6:38 AM
Post subject: .
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
The problem is that when we get used to the tool-assisted thing, these normal runs doesn't llok so great. You should learn the TAS tricks and start a new run. You will never know 100% about a game without playing it in extreme slow motion... heheh
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 8/18/2006 6:28 PM
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kilix
Joined: 8/17/2006
Posts: 6
Ok thanks a lot guys for your comments, I will consider them for a better run next time !!
Posted: 8/20/2006 2:11 PM
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kilix
Joined: 8/17/2006
Posts: 6
Well I have finally made a complete run of Shinobi III with the tool-assisted stuff of the emu by playing all through the game at a speed of 50% for 47 re-records ! The conditions of this run are the same that in my first post however there is some notes: - in stage 5 there is the famous place with the bomb in the box to break in order to progress in the game. This place is possible to reach but impossible to get out. Instead of using one shuriken I used the "kariu ninjitsu" which will make me lose the 50000 pts of "perfect bonus" (even if I used a shuriken instead of the ninjitsu this bonus is impossible to have at the end of this stage due to the box) and the 15000 pts of "no ninjitsu bonus" (5000 pts x 3) !! So you will note this is better to use a ninjitsu instead of a shuriken because I will obtain the 30000 pts of "shinobi bonus" ! - in the labyrinth of stage 6 I get through all the rooms in order to have the maximum score. If you know a little bit this game, doing all the rooms will make you redoing some rooms with the return of enemies previously killed. So I decided to show you all the rooms completed at least once and when I was doing a same one I avoid the enemies and don't get again the bonuses in the boxes. This "negative" point in the movie is compensated/balanced by showing you how to perfectly avoid enemies in each room ! - in the begining of stage 7 I used 10 shurikens in order to defeat the 5 great laser-beams (2 pow-shurikens each cannon) because they are impossible to beat with a slash or a kick. I made this choice because it's 1000 pts for each cannon and moreover using shurikens doesn't affect the score due to the fact that in this last stage you don't have the bonus points like in the other 6 stages. However apart the begining I complete the whole stage with the main conditions of the run (no shuriken, ninjitsu, etc ...) with a good show-time during the last boss ! In conclusion the time of this run is about 49 minutes and can be considered too long but don't forget that I have killed ALL the enemies of the game, with no damage, with some new tricks never seen before against bosses/enemies and all of this to obtain a maximum score ! So enjoy the movie and tell me your opinions !! ^_~ Here is the link of the file: http://rapidshare.de/files/30095000/Kilix_-_Shinobi_III.gmv.html
Posted: 8/20/2006 3:33 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
kilix wrote:
Well I have finally made a complete run of Shinobi III with the tool-assisted stuff of the emu by playing all through the game at a speed of 50% for 47 re-records !
That already makes the TAS obsolete. We use frame advance and thousands of rerecords to make things as accurate as possible. Take this as constructive criticism and redo your whole runs using frame advance and loads of rerecords to shave off every frame possible.
Posted: 8/20/2006 4:36 PM
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kilix
Joined: 8/17/2006
Posts: 6
Guybrush wrote:
kilix wrote:
Well I have finally made a complete run of Shinobi III with the tool-assisted stuff of the emu by playing all through the game at a speed of 50% for 47 re-records !
That already makes the TAS obsolete. We use frame advance and thousands of rerecords to make things as accurate as possible. Take this as constructive criticism and redo your whole runs using frame advance and loads of rerecords to shave off every frame possible.
I don't understand ! Why didn't you take a look first before judging it obsolete ?? It doesn't make sense !! It's all about speed and frame-perfect ?! I read here http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html that a TAS movie must be real, interesting and beating some records. I'm sorry but except the lenght of my replay I never saw somewhere a run of shinobi III with conditions like all enemies killed, maximum score, no use of shurikens, no damage taken, improved techniques against bosses, shinobi and perfect bonus in all stages, etc ... It looks like you reject my run ONLY for the low re-records and moreover without watching it !!!! Very strange !
Posted: 8/20/2006 4:38 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
I don't have Gens and I don't even want it, but if your run can be improved in a title screen (by being frame perfect) it's obsolete. And because there isn't a run of Shinobi III yet, doesn't mean your can be sloppy. I don't want to offend you, but I doubt it's not even close to perfect.
Posted: 8/20/2006 4:44 PM
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kilix
Joined: 8/17/2006
Posts: 6
Guybrush wrote:
I don't have Gens and I don't even want it, but if your run can be improved in a title screen (by being frame perfect) it's obsolete. And because there isn't a run of Shinobi III yet, doesn't mean your can be sloppy. I don't want to offend you, but I doubt it's not even close to perfect.
well I'm very surprised about this frame-perfect thing ! O_o
Posted: 8/20/2006 4:45 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
kilix wrote:
Guybrush wrote:
I don't have Gens and I don't even want it, but if your run can be improved in a title screen (by being frame perfect) it's obsolete. And because there isn't a run of Shinobi III yet, doesn't mean your can be sloppy. I don't want to offend you, but I doubt it's not even close to perfect.
well I'm very surprised about this frame-perfect thing ! O_o
What's so suprising in it? We aim to be as fast as possible, that means frame perfect.
Posted: 6/2/2007 7:06 PM
(Edited: 6/3/2007 9:27 PM)
Post subject: Shinobi III - Pacifist
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Grandy
Joined: 6/2/2007
Posts: 5
Before anything else, I'm Grandy. Hi. .... Now onto the movie! Inspired in the Contra III Pacifist movie, I shall attemp and beat Shinobi III without killing anyone unless necessary. This also means some shuriken and bullet dodging, seeing as now enemies will survive to shoot. Also trying to: -Aim for the fatest time -Play in the hardest level -Not gathering any power ups -Only attack using kunai and katana (no shurikens) and some ninjitsu for the bosses, seeing as, if I don't, some fights would take forever. And, as stated, the one shuriken needed to get past the bridge blowing level. -Manipulate luck Up until now, I only made about 1 minute run, and it's the complete first half of the first level. It's not much, but I guess it's enough to some rewiew, and to see if this has potential or not. Here it is, then. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5826/shinobi3.gmv Also, keep in mind that this is my first run. Ever. I didn't even bothered to play a little with the tools to see how they worked. I'm aware that in some point of the run, Shinobi stops for a few frames before resuming running. I sincerelly have no idea why he does that. I didn't imput that command.
Posted: 6/3/2007 6:38 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Heya Grandy, and welcome! It will interest you to know that a pacifist/no shuriken Shinobi 3 has already been attempted, and it seems it's not possible to complete the game without using shurikens: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3997 It was not very well received... I would suggest a movie just beating the game as fast as possible.
Posted: 6/3/2007 9:16 PM
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Grandy
Joined: 6/2/2007
Posts: 5
...really? I'm finding it really easy up until now, but I'm still in the middle of the game (just finished the 2nd boss). At any rate, I may colled a shuriken to get past the area where you must have the shuriken, and then discart the rest. Besides, there is already a Shinobi III 'true' speedrun, and I don't think I'd be able to beat it. EDIT: Oooooh, wait, I guess I know what you're talking about. I need to blow up a bridge with a shuriken. Oh well, I guess it still counts as "Attacks only with katana and kunai", since I'm not attacking anyone with the shuriken. EDIT2: Or, if I was crazy, I could try to break the box using ninjitsu.
Posted: 9/15/2007 8:04 PM
Post subject: Shinobi III New glitch
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DbICjQdMnG8 This can make the Electric Demon level a bit quicker. Basically you hop off the side and throw a shuriken while you are rising and it misses the ceiling or whatever is above you. Mixed with jitsu of fushin you can get through larger platforms/ceilings but I haven't really experimented with it too much. Found this about a week ago and as far as I know it's a new glitch. I've been a big fan of this game back since it came out on the genesis. Also if this is in the wrong part of the forum, sorry.
Posted: 9/18/2007 11:00 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
No, this is definitely a good part of the forum to post it. Though, there is probably some Shinobi 3 topic lying around you could post it to (it doesn't matter if you ressurect an old thread). The glitch looks very, very interesting. I haven't seen it before either. The current movie could be improved by a large margin with it.
Posted: 9/20/2007 2:08 AM
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
Playing around with this some more. Jitsu of Fushin is useful on the electric demon level, especially the last part before the boss. If you hop in through a ceiling and walk your way to the wall on the right and hold down while turboing B and C alternatively you can skip the entire part. Also another neat find, but I don't know if it is useful, on the Traps level. On the part where you have to jump up on the breakable boxes to make it to the door on top instead of taking that door, take the one to the left above where you start in that area. And then hop up above the spikes in that room (have to take damage for this unfortunately) and then go to the right until you start falling and turn around (moving around inside of objects, left makes you go right and right makes you go left) and hit down and B so you dart downwards diagonally (if you just fall straight down you die) and then after a while it will throw you into the boss room.
Posted: 9/20/2007 8:07 PM
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Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
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Movies of this would be very appreciated, since it's hard to follow instructions like this. Record a GMV in Gens, upload it on microstorage, and post the link here.
Posted: 9/22/2007 5:08 PM
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
Alright. When I get some time I will.
Posted: 9/25/2007 2:35 AM
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
http://h4xopolis.net:1069/clipse/stuff/Shinobi%20III%20-%20Through%20Ceiling%20Glitch%20-%20Eclipse.rar Much quicker and I don't take the best route either to show some things off.
Posted: 10/26/2007 9:51 PM
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DM48
Joined: 10/24/2007
Posts: 11
I had to register to comment that I'm amazed that glitch has been undiscovered for so long, and nice job on finding it. I'm sure you'll also have spotted the many places where the existing run could be tidied up as well if you've played the game as much as I have, so I won't bother pointing them out. I hope you're able to get a full run done for this game, because it certainly deserves a high quality run.
Posted: 11/1/2007 12:05 AM
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
DM48 wrote:
I had to register to comment that I'm amazed that glitch has been undiscovered for so long, and nice job on finding it. I'm sure you'll also have spotted the many places where the existing run could be tidied up as well if you've played the game as much as I have, so I won't bother pointing them out. I hope you're able to get a full run done for this game, because it certainly deserves a high quality run.
Tyvm =) Yeah I am also surprised this has not been found by anyone, and I'd love to see a new run sometime soon with this.
Posted: 11/1/2007 4:37 PM
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DM48
Joined: 10/24/2007
Posts: 11
You should do it. :D In all seriousness, I've watched the existing run many times, and read the comments/thread about it, and like others have said, some bits of the run are just blah. =/ Not to knock the work that went into it, and I'm certainly no TAS expert, but just from having played the game in real time so much, the run looked so iffy in parts. And what made it worse were some parts of the run were extremely well done, like the luck manipulation on the dragon-type boss. The good bits only made the iffy bits look that much worse. The glitch you found would naturally speed up the 5th level quite significantly.
Posted: 11/2/2007 4:27 AM
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
I'll just leave it to the pros. I am not too great at perfect times.
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:48 AM
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upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Sega TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TASer of 2007
There is no such thing as a TAS pro. Also you are the only person on the forums who actually knows how to perform this new glitch.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 11/2/2007 1:14 PM
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DM48
Joined: 10/24/2007
Posts: 11
Yeah, you're the only one who I've seen do this too. Time constraints prevent me from taking a shot at this unfortunately, it's about the one game I would attempt a TAS of, but I can lend some advice with routes and strategies if you wanted to give it a go. =)
Posted: 11/3/2007 12:45 AM
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E-clipse
Joined: 9/15/2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canada
I won't have the time to anytime soon though but we'll see I guess
Posted: 11/7/2007 9:56 PM
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DM48
Joined: 10/24/2007
Posts: 11
Well in case anyone attempts this, a bunch of improvements over the existing movie are: Second part of the first level - Just before the first canyon jump there's a short stutter which can be avoided. First level end boss - Not running after him will cause him to appear on screen much quicker. Second Level - Definitely possible to get three hits on the yellow ninja before he disappears off the left of the screen. Third Level - Just before picking up the Ninjitsu, he does a double jump into the wall which is unnecessary. A single jump into the wall will still require two wall jumps to get over, and it's very close to being only a single wall jump needed, a single one may be possible with optimal positioning. Fourth Level - When on the waterski, it's possible to throw a shriken, jump, kick diagonally downwards and throw another shuriken far quicker than simply throwing shurikens without doing anything, definitely abusable against the mini boss and the end level boss. Fifth Level - The new glitch will speed up the level significantly. At the first boss, ducking and hitting with the sword is faster than standing. Any boxes with dynamite can be detonated faster with a jump kick or shuriken than simply walking over them. Dragon boss could be tidied up with sword swipes only when necessary than repeated slashes that look like button mashing. Sixth Level - I think doing a wall dodge off the red wall on the right in the big room can be used to get to the door quicker at some points. If a jitsu of Fushin is going to be used, using it a room earlier would seem to be quicker as it allows you to finish that room quicker. Seventh Level - In the third section it's possible to eliminate all 3 fans in a row with a shuriken burst with the proper positionining. Is it also possible on the final wall climbing section to use this new glitch to jump up through the wall? And that's all just looking through without slowing down, looking at luck manipulation or where a few frames can be saved here and there through better play.
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