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Posted: 8/2/2006 5:36 AM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
It desynched in the 2nd level during the canon-bonus-level because you miss one star. Is it possible to collect the stars while climbing the ropes by jumping and not by usual climbing? Your jumping the ropes looks much better now. Now you have to solve the desynch problem. Which Snes-version do you use?
Posted: 8/2/2006 2:31 PM
(Edited: 8/4/2006 10:50 PM)
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sargon
Joined: 1/18/2006
Posts: 78
Location: Norway
Having problems watching this. Snes just shut down. Try and use the same settings as arne when making the movie (the two top settings on and the rest of). And also å little tip: try to watch arne's input display on his any% run. maybe you will pick up something on it. edit: It was a audio problem I've had watching this, so i muted it. worked just fine until the desync with the stars in the second world (commented later in the thread)
Posted: 8/2/2006 2:40 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I made it all the way through this, with the same ROM I use to watch Arne's progress, checksum = 4E2D90F4. Snes9x 1.43 v9, with WIP1 timing, Volume Envelope Height Reading, and Sync Sound samples with CPU checked (1st, 3rd, 5th options). Overall this looks good, although there are some tricks Arne has discovered that will save you some more time. The first thing I noticed is that you can dismount the rhino in the first level instead of taking him through the sign to save a bit of time. The other thing is the player-switching when hitting the goal. Check out Arne's current progress, watching his run with the controller input enabled (default the "comma" button) and maybe you can learn more about the game. As is, I would think it's good enough to be published, but it would also be obsoleted soon as well (especially if it's Arne's next project).
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 8/2/2006 5:03 PM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Hmm...I use exactly the same settings, rom and Snes-version as JXQ, but I get a desynch at this place:
Posted: 8/3/2006 1:34 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Hmm I miss a star? interesting... I just replayed my .smv movie and didn't see it at all is there any way to hex edit sections and keep the rest of the movie intact? for future reference I would greatly enjoy that instead of redoing the run a million times I tried doing all jumping instead of climbing, and I always miss stars when I do that. from the picture, if I do all jumps I get six, 3 in 2 columns, and always miss one star. *|* | *|* | *|* |* and also, with further slowdown jumps: *|* *| *|* | *|* | *|* |* If I tried to slow it down even further I might be able to but so far I jump a bit in the beginning and keep climbing because it's 99.9% more consistent. Edit: I just tried doing it at very slow speeds (found out how to improve my climbing even more, and how to scale a single rope so no loss there) and even still I could not find a consistent way to never miss stars dismounting rambi is something I believe you cannot do in mid charge, do you change direction in one frame and jump off rambi once the charge is cancelled like I do with enguarde in lockjaw's saga? I do use the goal switch, but since topsail trouble is the only place where dixie is useful and the boss fight uses dixie, then that's the only place where she's used. I can't see input because I don't have nitsuja's modified SNES9xW, just the improved version 1.43 WIP1 Sargon: What/where two settings?
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Posted: 8/3/2006 5:52 AM
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JXQ
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comicalflop wrote:
I can't see input because I don't have nitsuja's modified SNES9xW, just the improved version 1.43 WIP1
I would recommend getting it from the Downloads page.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 8/3/2006 6:11 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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I'm going to start Krocodile Kauldron today, previous mistakes like the missing star and a few others will be left alone until I find out how to hex edit that stuff, can anyone help me on how that's done? I had previously gotten up to squawk's shaft, this world is good for me except hothead hop because I suck at using the spider, I need a huge amount of practice to get as good as sami with the spider otherwise rest of the world is good so I'll start that today and I'll post as a WIP as soon as I'm done with that world.
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Posted: 8/7/2006 1:07 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1543/Donkey%20Kong%20Country%202%20-%20Diddy%27s%20Kong%20Quest%20102%25%20completion.smv *forgot how to shorten link, will fix later For some reason I keep desynching at the Lava Lagoon stage, I'm using the nice trick that was discovered here where you duck into the water and that's coming handy and some other small shortcuts but this level keeps desynhcing for me. How does the rest look so far up to the desynching point? Hot head hop sucked like I suspected, lots of room for improvement there, kannon's klaim was almost perfect except for one part where I fall, and land to do a roll where falling would be faster. Jungle jjinxes had some good stuff but wasn't 100% smooth. I backed up the movie file so that I can start from scratch in the beginning seperately while working on my current version any thoughts? is it still desynching at other places for other ppl?
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Posted: 8/7/2006 6:31 AM
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SpiDeY
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
are you using the modified by nitsuja version of snes9x?
Posted: 8/7/2006 9:38 AM
(Edited: 8/9/2006 9:19 PM)
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
No, he's not.
Posted: 8/7/2006 3:11 PM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
comicalflop wrote:
is it still desynching at other places for other ppl?
We can't continue watching because it's desynching in this bonus room. I really recommend to download nitsuja's version and remake the whole thing.
Posted: 8/8/2006 12:45 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I tried downloading nitsuja's thingy, but it made my SNES emulator run at 40/60 frames, and everything was crappy and slow. So I deleted it. I don't know how it's supposed to work, but so far all it did for me was make my emulator slow down, so unless someone can help me on whether or not it's its own program or an extension of SNES, I will leave it alone. I am starting from scratch, and won't start each next level until I have perfected the previous level. yesterday I tried to do all climbing in the bonus and I always miss a star. I will attempt tonight to slow down the speed even further, but I doubt it will yield better results becuase quite frankly I think the game physics of rope jumping won't permit me to hit all the stars, even though I come close to getting all sometimes. We'll see where tonight brings me. Edit: I think I got it. at relle slow speeds, when rope jumping on one single rope (as is the case to get the stars in the bonus) you can jump on the first fram possible to get maximum speed. But I'm slowly waiting for diddy to swing around the rope just a little to jump up the direct middle of the rope each time. I get a little more success with that, I'll see if it works Edit: DCK2-102% Stage 1-2 Star Bonus nailed YESS!!!! After three days I have finally got the bonus done. Yes indeed by jumping a frame or two after diddy grabs the rope and swings around it, and ends up halfway between the rope, if you jump then you practically climb the rope right up the middle. This way I can in fact grab all the stars. Then I jump up in between the ropes to get the middle column very fast by falling, and precede to get the right column the same way as the far left column. Loads of seconds saved. The rest of the movie is much smoother than the previous movie up to stage 3, with the rambi dismount (not as smooth as I wanted it, but saved a second) smoother climbing in stage 2, saved frames on the "kill the monsters" level (but look sloppy when I "wiggle"), more smoooth climbing, of course the star bonus much seconds saved and getting the final DK coin and target much smoother. Does this look more TAS calibre and worthy of publication, as compared to my previous movie? Slowing down more does seem to improve quality, so I will accept the more time it will take for now since I see results.
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Posted: 8/8/2006 2:35 AM
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Comicalflop
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DCK2-102%World1 whew, got in 3 levels and the boss in one night. Hopefully, since I redid before the star bonus that the desynchs will stop. However, with the significant improvements I still calculated only a 1 second improvement of my first version of up to krocodile kualdron. Maybe because they don't end on the same frame, that might make up the difference. I really think the extra work to gain frames and smooth things out was worth it, what do you guys think?
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Posted: 8/8/2006 3:49 AM
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L4yer
Joined: 6/12/2006
Posts: 368
It desynched for me in the underwater crate level around the DK coin in regular snes9x and desynched the level after in the blue mosquito bonus room in the altered snes9x.
Posted: 8/8/2006 5:39 AM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Yes, it desynched for me in Topsail Trouble, too. But up to this point it was just GREAT to watch. I hope you will continue this run, but apparently you have to use nitsuja's version. Did you download the newest version? Maybe you can ask nitsuja why your framerate is dropping.
Posted: 8/8/2006 12:06 PM
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SpiDeY
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
For the ones with desynching problems: He is using the Donkey Kong Country 2 - Diddy's Kong Quest (U) (V1.1) [!] version, not the (V1.0) one!! I was able to watch it entirely. A good run so far, but it is far from framelly perfection. But you are doing good, I suggest to you forget about moving on to the second world, focus on improving this one. I've seen a lot of room from improvement, and I think you can do it!
Posted: 8/8/2006 12:41 PM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Ahh, that explains a lot...thanks SpiDeY.
Posted: 8/8/2006 2:12 PM
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sargon
Joined: 1/18/2006
Posts: 78
Location: Norway
Thanks for the version update Spidey. Just saw the run and there is room for improvement. For example you didn't use the new goal-switch trick that arne discovered. It saves some frames for arne, so it should save some for you too. Anyways good luck with your run
Posted: 8/8/2006 9:43 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Glad the desynching stuff is out of the way. Yeah I can't tell what version I was using, hopefully if people watch with 1.1 the desynchs will stop Now on to some justifications and the spots where I notice needs improvement: Why don't I use the goal switch? In world 1 I found 2 spots in SDA's speedrun where dixie is used to gain speed, because her spin gains more distance. However, watching Sami's any% run showed me to avoid dixie as much as possible except for rare cases where she's a big time saver. I basically nailed the same tricks faster with diddy, so there's no need to use the goal switch. Further in the run I may use it, but for world one so far there's no need. I think the future of the run will be very diddy oriented, simply because I used him more and found out that I can mostly do th same tricks as dixie. Areas that I noticed I can improve on: Pirate Panic: 1: there's a part where I roll up stairs and for some reason I go slower, I could jump here to gain a few frames 2: Rambi dismount could be smoother Mainbrace Mayhem: Second bonus: I could not wobble, cuz I mess up horribly trying to idle the time and even though the 6 kill is awesome the waiting looks sloppy. DK coin: I could make the roll jump go farther, and not have to jump again to get the coin. Gangplank Galley: None Lockjaw's saga: 1: Improve the duck swimming, I might be able to jump out of water onto the bulkhead above and do another duck fall into the water, that would be fastest but hard to do 2: test whether holding Y makes enguarde go faster or not, I noticed when I didn't hold it he was going faster, is this true? 3: slightly more smoother bonus Topsail trouble: None (goal switch not needed since Diddy fulfills dixie's purpose faster) Boss: Need to luck manipulate the final egg, anyone know at what point to make a savastate to manipulate the eggs? I've gotten up to jungle hijinxes, I made hothead hop much better than the first time I tried it, I'll keep working until someone can help tutor me on how to hex edit. I'm making backups of my movie just like it's recommended, so if someone can help me get familiar with it then I'll go back to fix mistakes DCK2-102%World1 + World2 Stage 1-2
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Posted: 8/9/2006 5:50 AM
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SpiDeY
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
I think that there is lot's of room for improvement in the ending of the levels, you could hit the goal earlier in almost every stage.
Posted: 8/9/2006 6:48 AM
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AzHP
Joined: 6/20/2006
Posts: 142
I haven't watched the run but most likely the reason is that he doesn't want to hit the goal from a high place triggering the dance scene that accompanies receiving an item at the end of the level.
Posted: 8/9/2006 9:08 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
That's correct, you lose seconds by hitting the goal from a certain height so it's always faster to make an extra jump to just go to next level. There is one or two levels where the DK coin is in the target, so usually those will be the two exceptions, unless I try to do a goal switch. I still keep getting desynchs at Lava Lagoon, I will keep going a little iddy bitty step at a time thru the level to keep desynching minimal. Does going turbo mode to undo mistakes affect desynching if I want to fast foward to lava lagoon? will submit a WIP as soon as lava lagoon is complete sans desynchs
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Posted: 8/9/2006 9:17 PM
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AzHP
Joined: 6/20/2006
Posts: 142
Turbo shouldn't affect anything...
Posted: 8/9/2006 9:45 PM
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nitsuja
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Joined: 12/21/2004
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AzHP wrote:
Turbo shouldn't affect anything...
It shouldn't, but when a game waits for a sound to finish playing before continuing (or otherwise reads the sound output and uses it), it does matter because Snes9x (unfortunately) plays the sounds separately from the emulation. So if you're fast-forwarding at one of those times, or have a different enough CPU, the game ends up waiting a different number of frames before continuing, causing a desync. That's what the "fake mute" fix is supposed to prevent. In the case of this particular game, it has desyncs for another reason, which happen if you load a savestate that was made on certain frames. So fast-forward shouldn't matter for that. What could matter is whether you save on odd or even frames, if the "bad frames" to save on follow such a simple pattern...
comicalflop wrote:
Gangplank Galley: None
What about the very start of the level? You roll under the barrel for no apparent reason before jumping onto it. And using Dixie might speed up the part after getting the DK coin.
Posted: 8/10/2006 2:35 AM
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Comicalflop
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
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But it seems I only desynch in the Lava lagoon level, and this is the second time I've done this... no other level has desynched for me due to savestates, and yet twice lava lagoon has desynched? (in the same spot more or less, of all things what are the odds?) Gangplank galley: yeah, that was a little mistake but I was reciting from memory the major spots that I could improve on. And dixie is not faster in any way, her hovering is mostly the same speed as her running which is slower than diddy's. PLus, in the first world (and the second too) I'm finiding spots where dixie's spinhover would be great to get to certain places, but diddy gets to them just as good, yet faster because his roll is great (mostly in topsail trouble and hothead hop). However... after getting the DK coin I could use dixie to hover over to the warp faster but the time needed to perform a switch is a little too much and I'd lose frames that way. I could possibly do a goal switch before to start the level with dixie.... "fake mute", is that available on the improved SNES9X that I use? unless someone can tell me how to use Nitsuja's modified SNES9X, I'll stick to what works for me I'll keep doing Lava lagoon, but it'll be hard because I don't know any savestate saving tricks because if I see where there's a desynch, I'll have to replay the movie up to before the part where it desynchs and start from scratch, and that takes time...any good way of playing a level that desynchs a lot?
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