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Posted: 6/26/2006 6:35 PM
Post subject: Palindromic TAS
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
It would be interesting if someone could make a palindromic TAS, that is, the keypresses are the same forwards and backwards, and it actually beats some game. I really have no idea in what game this could even be possible, but I figured I'd just throw it out there for all you crazies to mull over.
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:37 PM
(Edited: 6/26/2006 6:40 PM)
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zefiris
Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[
near impossible. It's nothing like bigame run ever. You can't see what your keypresses do until you finish half of movie.
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:38 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
*Mulling over* Nothing interesting found yet...
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:40 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
zefiris wrote:
near impossible. It's nothing like bugame run ever. You can't see what your keypresses do until you finish half of movie.
We go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:40 PM
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zefiris
Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[
..but we had tools for that :D
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:41 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
We invented the tools we needed, yes.
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:42 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
You could probably plan tetris ahead from both ends. It's just incredibly difficult, and utterly useless. The foremost impression would be "this player has too much free time".
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:42 PM
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zefiris
Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[
Can you invent tool predicting what state will game have after you press key you haven't pressed yet? :D
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:43 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Bisqwit wrote:
You could probably plan tetris ahead from both ends. It's just incredibly difficult, and utterly useless. The foremost impression would be "this player has too much free time".
I think the "utterly useless" part is why I find the idea so compelling!
Posted: 6/26/2006 6:45 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
xebra wrote:
I think the "utterly useless" part is why I find the idea so compelling!
Good luck!
Posted: 6/26/2006 7:36 PM
Post subject: ARGH!!!
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
EMOTICONS!!!! EVERYWHERE!!! HELP!!! And we go to the moon because we can't go to any other planet...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 6/26/2006 7:40 PM
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miau
Joined: 3/26/2006
Posts: 42
Location: Germany
Button-mashing through Street Fighter
Posted: 6/26/2006 8:23 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
It's easy so long as you dont worry about getting a great time. Just double the movie length and paste all the inputs in backwards, sure they will do nothing, but you never said they had to :)
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 6/26/2006 8:37 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Let us not be pedantic. The input should end when it no longer affects gameplay, as usual.
Posted: 6/26/2006 9:12 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Aw that makes it harder :( It's an interesting challenge but I think it would be hard for a viewer to appreciate the palindromocity of it. I bet certain games (short and simple ones) would be doable without new tools being created. You could play the game half way and then paste it in reverse. Then watch it, make a few adjustments repeat. This is easier said then done ofcourse.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 6/27/2006 12:22 AM
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Bob_A
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
It'd be fairly easy (albeit tedious) to do in something like an rpg where all you have to do is imput commands at certain frames.
Posted: 6/27/2006 12:45 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Hmm good point, some games only check inputs on odd numbered frames (solstice for example). So this would be really easy to do, but would have 0 entertainment factor added for the viewer. Lets say the movie inputs were the first row, then you could turn it into a palindrome and it would play identical using the second row. 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n
anbmcldkejfighhgifjekdlcmbna
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 6/27/2006 3:17 AM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
Why don't you combine the two concepts and make big-game palindrome movies. It could work for short games like Donkey Kong, and Monopoly. I'd say that would be pretty damn impressive to watch. If the movie times don't match, (monopoly is really fast), you should aim to bankrupt as many computers as possible... It would be fun to see a dancing carpenter dash make a fool of himself (narrowly escaping barrels) along with a computer player getting bankrupt on Baltic. Actually, I think beating Donkey Kong itself as fast as possible with a palindrome style input would be pretty cool.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 6/27/2006 4:17 AM
Post subject: This is what you deserve!
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
You know what happens when you try to do this palindromic thing??? You'll probably end up with a lot of BUGS too: So, this is what I do with your suggestion! SO LONG, BOWSER! Heheh... sorry about that lame joke... but I could not resist... those images were so funny! =D
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 6/27/2006 2:57 PM
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Healblade
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 91
-50 points for including Pokémon in a non-Pokémon thread. On topic: I would agree with miau that button mashing through a fighting game might be your best bet. That way both halves of the movie would be utter chaos. The trick I guess would be to have a program to generate the "second half" of the button press file. Then again, that might be almost trivial to some of the programmers here. I wish the best of luck to whomever tries this rediculous concept, and I look forward to seeing their results, positive or otherwise.
Posted: 6/27/2006 3:10 PM
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Baxter
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
xebra wrote:
We go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
Going to the moon at least looked kinda cool. This will look like someone isn't good at a game. Edit: Btw, doing a palindrome run for a slightly complex game like megaman, will be harder than going to the moon too.
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 6/27/2006 3:32 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
At least Megaman is straightforward. Doing the same for an action/adventure game would be really harder than going to the moon, cause you'll possibly need something like Blue Gene to analyze valid input combinations.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/27/2006 5:02 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
DK64_MASTER wrote:
Why don't you combine the two concepts and make big-game palindrome movies.
Big-game? BIG game? It's bi game! BI-game! And not as in bisexual.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/27/2006 5:38 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Baxter wrote:
Edit: Btw, doing a palindrome run for a slightly complex game like megaman, will be harder than going to the moon too.
I don't really see this.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 6/27/2006 6:19 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Bisqwit wrote:
Good luck!
I'm glad to see that you approve of that emoticon.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
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