Posted: 5/28/2006 9:30 PM
Post subject: How to get the idea of tool-assistance across?
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
just an idea that crossed my mind today.. most of the misunderstandings of tool-assisted videos exist because many viewers don't understand the meaning of tool-assistance. It's not trivial to grasp for a casual gamer who is used to real consoles. There's the Why and How-page, but the explanation about tool-assistance is short, hidden inside a longer text, and is incomplete about the tools used. It links to Using Emulator Tools, but that's technical information for TAS-creators, not education for viewers. And it's way too much text for the average internet user. My idea is to offer an easier way to learn what tool-assistance is about: create a short introductory movie, so they can see how it's done. This movie should show the creation of a difficult stunt using tool-assistance, recorded using fraps (or similar). A stunt that's impressive, not possible for a human player, and shows the basic tools, including some re-records and frame advancing, maybe luck manipulation and memory viewing. If on-screen-displays are visible and menu items are used instead of hotkeys it should be mostly self-explanatory, but maybe additional subtitles could be added. some ideas for the stunt (no idea if they take too long for a short movie):
  • the 0% break on Metroid Fusion (no luck manipulation though)
  • Super Metroid: enter lower Norfair suitless, and manipulate a 20 energy drop
  • Super Metroid: Phantoon quick kill. manipulate some missile drops from him, use the memory viewer to monitor his health, kill him.
  • a crowded fighting scene in a 2D Zelda, with a manipulated bomb drop
  • Aria of Sorrow Boss fight with manipulated soul drop
btw, this is just an idea, not an offer to create such a movie - I'm no good at TAS'ing. ;) opinions?
m00
Posted: 5/28/2006 9:36 PM
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moozooh
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That's a clever idea.
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 5/28/2006 9:39 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
I like the idea. Then people would really see how we do these runs and amount of those "OMG!! YOU'RE INCREDEBLE WIZS!!" topics would be reduced. But I doubt most of the new people actually read the FAQ though, so we need a "READ THE FAQ" button. But I could do loads of stunt and luck manipulation demos for Metroid.
Posted: 5/28/2006 9:45 PM
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Rising_Tempest
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Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
Or how about, a short movie showing the making of a few stunts for different games, to try to appeal to a wider audience? Say, some sort of ridiculous bomb jump in a metroid game,,, a boss fight from, perhaps, a megaman game,,, tons of critical hits in a row in an RPG game,,, try to sucker in players of several types of games, yes?
Posted: 5/29/2006 7:58 AM
Post subject: heh
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (312)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
Hmm... that's an excellent idea. I could do the Aria stuff.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 5/29/2006 9:13 AM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
So, any good screen capture programs you could recommend?
Posted: 5/29/2006 9:44 AM
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upthorn
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Supposedly HyperCam works decently well, for a free program.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 5/29/2006 11:47 AM
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Truncated
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I like the idea, and it has been suggested before, it's just that noone has done it yet. Would it be a good idea to also show what buttons that are recorded, and how loading a state jumps backwards and erases the button presses? >But I doubt most of the new people actually read the FAQ though, so we need a "READ THE FAQ" button. That we already have one at the top of the forum, and it's linked to from every page on the nesvi... tasvideos homepage.
Posted: 6/2/2006 11:00 PM
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Bob_A
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
Perhaps someone could add metarerecording to an emulator so we can tas it?
Posted: 6/3/2006 6:26 AM
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graviteh
Joined: 4/14/2005
Posts: 45
Most of the people who cry out "LOL YOU NEED TO PLAY IN SLOW MOTION BECAUSE YOU SUCK" are just stupid fucks anyway. Personally I would jsut go around saying "The point is to be entertaining rather than show extreme skills while completing a game in a frame by frame perfect manner" They would would still cry like that, but i guess it is up to those with brains to understand.
Posted: 6/3/2006 9:04 AM
Post subject: Re: How to get the idea of tool-assistance across?
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Bisqwit
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Tub wrote:
My idea is to offer an easier way to learn what tool-assistance is about: create a short introductory movie, so they can see how it's done. This movie should show the creation of a difficult stunt using tool-assistance, recorded using fraps (or similar).
I've been thinking of a similar thing, possibly recorded with video camera or something. But these are ideas that never get done...
Posted: 6/3/2006 11:48 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Posts: 5712
My brother thought it was fun to watch me work on a Mega Man run for a while, but I'm not sure if it's an activity that translates well to a short Internet video. But you might still find a way.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/5/2006 8:28 PM
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LocalH
Joined: 10/3/2004
Posts: 138
Perhaps, rather than being a short video, it should be a 30- or 60- minute documentary?
Sonic Retro
Posted: 6/5/2006 9:21 PM
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SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
even better, a tutorial ? or both ?
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Posted: 6/5/2006 10:34 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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LocalH wrote:
Perhaps, rather than being a short video, it should be a 30- or 60- minute documentary?
Yeah and then NOBODY will bother to watch it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/6/2006 7:33 AM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Yeah and then NOBODY will bother to watch it.
I would.
Posted: 6/6/2006 12:28 PM
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creaothceann
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Their goal is to show whos the better player at a particular game right? but the point im getting at is why do you need to prove to somebody that your better or faster at a computer game then they are, if not to inflate your ego.
What would you answer to that? :/ Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpM2ghqeqOM
Posted: 6/6/2006 1:25 PM
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Truncated
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How about: to explore the limits of the game? Or: for the same reasons as any sportsman, competing (and especially winning) is fun. Also, is that from the tool-assisted movie? I would guess so, but I couldn't see it mentioned anywhere.
Posted: 6/6/2006 2:31 PM
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creaothceann
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Truncated wrote:
Also, is that from the tool-assisted movie? I would guess so, but I couldn't see it mentioned anywhere.
Yeah, the tool-assisted Super Metroid movie... There's a link in the description that goes to this forum.
Posted: 6/6/2006 4:00 PM
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Kyrsimys
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Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
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It's not from any published run though. It's probably one of Saturn's RBO teasers seeing how he's in Norfair without Varia.
Posted: 6/6/2006 5:52 PM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
creaothceann wrote:
Yeah, the tool-assisted Super Metroid movie... There's a link in the description that goes to this forum.
But it's not clear from just looking, and "tinyurl.com" doesn't make it any clearer.
Posted: 6/6/2006 6:50 PM
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creaothceann
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Alright, I added some info. [/offtopic] Anyway... sorry for disrupting the thread.