Post by OmnipotentEntity

Posted: 2/11/2006 12:42 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

Update, drastically different route in 3-3 (thanks to nitsuja again) saved 7 frames in that level, which fell to 5 frames by the end of 3-8. But hey, 5 frames is 5 frames, and it's a far more difficult route. If I could trigger the pushing guy between the first possible frame you can, and frame 47925 (which is the next possible frame I found) let me know. Because then I can complete this level much faster (2-3 seconds). I'm simply going to try to hex in level 4, because I think I have that near completely optimized. I'm going to redo most of Level 5 though.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 2/12/2006 12:11 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

___________________________________________________________
| 0-1: 098 | 0-2: 097 | 0-3: 097 | 0-4: 095 | Total: 0387 |
| 1-1: 145 | 1-2: 143 | 1-3: 147 | 1-4: 133 | Total: 0568 |
| 1-5: 142 | 1-6: 189 | 1-7: 190 | 1-8: 135 | Total: 0656 |
| 2-1: 185 | 2-2: 137 | 2-3: 146 | 2-4: 095 | Total: 0563 |
| 2-5: 141 | 2-6: 134 | 2-7: 185 | 2-8: 146 | Total: 0606 |
| 2-9: 143 | 2-10:137 | 2-11:143 | 2-12:134 | Total: 0557 |
| 3-1: 185 | 3-2: 187 | 3-3: 184 | 3-4: 134 | Total: 0690 |
| 3-5: 188 | 3-6: 146 | 3-7: 181 | 3-8: 183 | Total: 0699 |
| 4-1: 190 | 4-2: 139 | 4-3: 141 | 4-4: 194 | Total: 0664 |
| 4-5: 188 | 4-6: 180 | 4-7: 178 | 4-8: 142 | Total: 0688 |
| 4-9: 214 | 4-10:235 | 4-11:192 | 4-12:185 | Total: 0826 |
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

I lost a timeunit in 4-1, I didn't gain it back until 4-9, which I promptly lost again, but gained it back again (x2) in 4-12. Which is odd, because I can't think of a way I could have possibly gained time on my old run of 4-12... (Though I did redo it from scratch.) Next up, Level 5.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 2/24/2006 1:00 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

Currently working on 5-9, if anyone wants to help here's where I'm at.

I'm trying to use the rock to glitch me to the key area without opening the gate. Here's what I know about using rocks to glitch through floors. 1. Mario's hitbox must enter the rock's hitbox at the frame where Mario's controls would become locked if he were standing directly under it. 2. Mario must jump during this frame. 3. Mario *may* have to be moving quickly. 4. Mario *may* have to approach from the right. 5. Mario *may* have to be on a conveyor belt. 6. Mario *may* have to be on not so solid ground. If 3 is true then I'll need to somehow fanagle a triple jump. If 4 or 6 is true then I'll have to take my backup route. If 5 is true then I'm just screwed. -_-' Lycanthrope I'll put up a happy ASCII table next update.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/2/2006 2:54 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

___________________________________________________________
| 0-1: 098 | 0-2: 097 | 0-3: 097 | 0-4: 095 | Total: 0387 |
| 1-1: 145 | 1-2: 143 | 1-3: 147 | 1-4: 133 | Total: 0568 |
| 1-5: 142 | 1-6: 189 | 1-7: 190 | 1-8: 135 | Total: 0656 |
| 2-1: 185 | 2-2: 137 | 2-3: 146 | 2-4: 095 | Total: 0563 |
| 2-5: 141 | 2-6: 134 | 2-7: 185 | 2-8: 146 | Total: 0606 |
| 2-9: 143 | 2-10:137 | 2-11:143 | 2-12:134 | Total: 0557 |
| 3-1: 185 | 3-2: 187 | 3-3: 184 | 3-4: 134 | Total: 0690 |
| 3-5: 188 | 3-6: 146 | 3-7: 181 | 3-8: 183 | Total: 0699 |
| 4-1: 190 | 4-2: 139 | 4-3: 141 | 4-4: 194 | Total: 0664 |
| 4-5: 188 | 4-6: 180 | 4-7: 178 | 4-8: 142 | Total: 0688 |
| 4-9: 219 | 4-10:234 | 4-11:192 | 4-12:184 | Total: 0829 |
| 5-1: 083 | 5-2: 138 | 5-3: 241 | 5-4: 145 | Total: 0607 |
| 5-5: 088 | 5-6: 132 | 5-7: 133 | 5-8: 147 | Total: 0500 |
| 5-9: 281 | 5-10:191 | 5-11:190 | 5-12:136 | Total: 0829 |
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Redid 4-9 (nitsuja trick). Gained 5 time units. However, I encountered terrible luck in 4-10 as a result. It's still a net gain though. Time unit diff for stage 5:

___________________________________________________________
| 5-1: +04 | 5-2:  00 | 5-3:  00 | 5-4: -01 | Total: +03 |
| 5-5: +01 | 5-6:  00 | 5-7: +01 | 5-8:  00 | Total: +02 |
| 5-9: +14 | 5-10: 00 | 5-11:+01 | 5-12: 00 | Total: +15 |
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

5-1, I now backflip up instead of taking the ladders (I don't know what I was thinking last version). 5-2, I'm particularly proud of not killing anything in this level. 5-4, Probably different subtimeunit timing. 5-5, Ditto 5-6, New, slightly faster, route (nitsuja again), but timeunit isn't saved until next stage. 5-7, Minor optimizations. Specifically, regular jump on the last climb (10 frames) and not breaking the block under the key (time is saved on the jump and releasing the hammer earlier. around 5 frames overall). 5-8, Being the closest break tally point to the center of the game, I find it ironic that I wound up with 500 timeunits exactly. 5-9, Drastically different route. Thanks to nitsuja walljump timesaver. And thanks to nitsuja again for telling me which option was true. Another route option: follow a similar path to my previous run and then using the top rock to push Mario with the key through the ground and the fall to victory. However, because I'd have to bring the key along that would require throwing and hefting the key two additional times (once to get to where the top rock is, the other because you can't all the way through the ground and to the next highest platform without falling), so even though the route itself is slightly shorter it winds up being 2-4 seconds slower. Note the graphical glitch after he scales the wall for the second time. :) 5-11, Subtimeunit timing? On to 6-1 Some stats: 50.8 seconds faster. (New movie ends later than old movie) 21439 rerecords vs 14009 rerecords 56/101 stages done. Just over 30 minutes into the movie. If there are no suggestions, it's on to Stage 6.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/2/2006 3:21 AM

Quote

nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

OmnipotentEntity wrote:

Gained 5 time units. However, I encountered terrible luck in 4-10 as a result.

How does this work? I don't know how the randomness in this game goes, but did you try things like sacrificing a few frames in 4-9 to get better luck in 4-10, or is it just not that kind of randomness? Also, since you jumped across that pit in 4-9 going left, why not jump across it going right beforehand? That would cut out all that waiting at the top, I think.

Posted: 3/2/2006 4:03 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

Randomness seems to be based on very large blocks of time. Time units seem to be a factor, but they don't seem to be the only factor (but I only have a single piece of evidence for this.) And the randomness is not divided strictly upon the timeunit border. (Completing a level in 191 vs 190 doesn't always change the luck). I haven't put as much thought into figuring out the randomness system because of that. Most of the time bad luck costs me less than a timeunit so it's not worth the time it takes to manipulate it. About 4-9. D'oh! >_< I'll fix that.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/5/2006 3:35 AM
(Edited: 3/7/2006 12:38 AM)

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

___________________________________________________________
| 0-1: 098 | 0-2: 097 | 0-3: 097 | 0-4: 095 | Total: 0387 |
| 1-1: 145 | 1-2: 143 | 1-3: 147 | 1-4: 133 | Total: 0568 |
| 1-5: 142 | 1-6: 189 | 1-7: 190 | 1-8: 135 | Total: 0656 |
| 2-1: 185 | 2-2: 137 | 2-3: 146 | 2-4: 095 | Total: 0563 |
| 2-5: 141 | 2-6: 134 | 2-7: 185 | 2-8: 146 | Total: 0606 |
| 2-9: 143 | 2-10:137 | 2-11:143 | 2-12:134 | Total: 0557 |
| 3-1: 185 | 3-2: 187 | 3-3: 184 | 3-4: 134 | Total: 0690 |
| 3-5: 188 | 3-6: 146 | 3-7: 181 | 3-8: 183 | Total: 0699 |
| 4-1: 190 | 4-2: 139 | 4-3: 141 | 4-4: 194 | Total: 0664 |
| 4-5: 188 | 4-6: 180 | 4-7: 178 | 4-8: 142 | Total: 0688 |
| 4-9: 225 | 4-10:234 | 4-11:192 | 4-12:185 | Total: 0836 |
| 5-1: 082 | 5-2: 139 | 5-3: 241 | 5-4: 145 | Total: 0607 |
| 5-5: 087 | 5-6: 131 | 5-7: 133 | 5-8: 147 | Total: 0498 |
| 5-9: 280 | 5-10:192 | 5-11:190 | 5-12:136 | Total: 0798 |
| 6-1: 139 | 6-2: 123 | 6-3: 190 | 6-4: 246 | Total: 0698 |
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Went back and fixed 4-9, didn't change luck until 5-6... :/ I wound up losing around 2 seconds there. Silly thing is, that's the only level with changed luck. All the rest hexed in just fine. Even the Kong fight. The file goes up to 6-7, but consider 6-5 and 6-6 test routes, 6-6 in particular needs work. Comment on 6-1 through 6-4: 6-1: Perhaps there's a better way to handle the bullets. Or a quicker place to throw away the floor. 6-2: Ugh, I couldn't cheese this stage, so I had to do it the "normal" way. 6-3: It might be possible to center Mario with the door better. 6-4: There seems to be a wall there... :) Notes on walljumping with wind. It's easier. But to multi jump you need to do the following. From the jump: <A, <, < will line you up for the next jump. From the next jump: <A, <, Hold >. Rince repeat. Also, on the second jump, and every other jump afterwards it is possible to turnaround jump (as shown), just after the first jump, (<A, <, <) hold >. File Located Here. If there's a demand, I can start posting save states. EDIT: Changed link 3-6-04. It's kinda a shame to throw this all away. But I can always just hex it back.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/5/2006 7:05 AM

Quote

nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

OmnipotentEntity wrote:

but consider 6-5 and 6-6 test routes, 6-6 in particular needs work.

6-5, it might be faster to wall-jump up those 2 blocks in the middle (and backflip instead of handstand jump on the way there) instead of backflipping off the cannon on the right. 6-6 looks pretty good to me. It seems that the wall-jump straight to the key isn't possible.

Posted: 3/6/2006 12:36 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

1-4 can be improved with the 6-4 technique. I got a 145. Time to fire up the hex editor again.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/7/2006 12:27 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

___________________________________________________________
| 0-1: 098 | 0-2: 097 | 0-3: 097 | 0-4: 095 | Total: 0387 |
| 1-1: 145 | 1-2: 143 | 1-3: 147 | 1-4: 145 | Total: 0580 |
| 1-5: 142 | 1-6: 192 | 1-7: 191 | 1-8: 137 | Total: 0662 | 
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Yeah, I suck. You know. When I started this I was under the illusion that I might get it done sometime in 2006. :) We all know now that it'll be at least until 2008. EDIT: Old movie for anyone who missed it.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/7/2006 5:47 AM

Quote

nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Maybe those people that say "but I can't do a TAS, it could take years!" will finally get a solid example. Are you going to try hex-editing later stages in or just redoing most of them?

Posted: 3/7/2006 12:30 PM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

Well, while I'm back here I have things I want to fix in level 2. Mostly stylistically, so not much of a reason not to use a hex editor. But after level 2 everything that I can hex back is getting hexed back. Aside from the ones that can be improved with that glitch.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/7/2006 2:31 PM

Quote

KDR_11k

Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 352
Location: Germany

Can you manipulate whether Mario closes the door behind him at the end of each stage? That could save quite some time (though it'd save frames only, no timeunits).

Posted: 3/7/2006 4:17 PM

Quote

Hoe

Joined: 7/31/2004
Posts: 183
Location: USA

OmnipotentEntity wrote:

Yeah, I suck.

A very impressive video :)

Posted: 3/8/2006 12:55 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

KDR, I can't manipulate luck in this game at all, I haven't figured out an effective way how... @Hoe, thanks, though I was more referring to the fact that I can't seem to get this movie done, ever. :)

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/8/2006 3:35 AM

Quote

nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

I don't know if the door-slamming is even luck at all. At least, nothing done in the level changes whether it happens. BTW, I knew it probably wouldn't work, but here is all that happens when trying to beat 1-8 the sneaky way.

Posted: 3/8/2006 8:28 PM

Quote

Squ4ll-

Joined: 11/28/2004
Posts: 138

Im under the impression that the door slamming happens when ever you beat the current record for that lvl. How much time have you used on this project so far Omni? When its finished its gonna look good :) .

The best time you have is the time you share with other people.

Posted: 3/8/2006 11:43 PM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

If that were the case then the door would be slamming on every level.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/14/2006 2:50 AM

Quote

GeminiSaint

Former player

Joined: 3/31/2005
Posts: 192
Location: Argentina

The animation of Mario closing the door occurs whenever you finish a level with 150 or more time-units left. There's no luck involved.

Posted: 3/16/2006 3:40 AM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

GeminiSaint: Thanks.

___________________________________________________________
| 0-1: 098 | 0-2: 097 | 0-3: 097 | 0-4: 095 | Total: 0387 |
| 1-1: 145 | 1-2: 143 | 1-3: 147 | 1-4: 145 | Total: 0580 |
| 1-5: 142 | 1-6: 192 | 1-7: 191 | 1-8: 137 | Total: 0662 |
| 2-1: 187 | 2-2: 137 | 2-3: 146 | 2-4: 095 | Total: 0565 |
| 2-5: 141 | 2-6: 133 | 2-7: 186 | 2-8: 146 | Total: 0662 |
| 2-9: 144 | 2-10:138 | 2-11:142 | 2-12:??? | Total: ???? |
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

I'm having some trouble with the Kong fight, the barrel throw timings are different, which is messing up my old strategy. 2-1: New route, I feel like a dummy for not using it before. 2-2: I couldn't find a better one than the one I used so, meh. Neat trick though. 2-3: Shaved a few frames off of this one by using the turn around jump there. 2-4: I tried going up the side instead of climbing the ropes, two timeunits slower. Though it did teach me some more about the walljump which was useful in 2-7, 2-10, and other stages. 2-5: Hexed back in, no change 2-6: Redid the ladybug handling, tried for a while to glitch myself through the ceiling (frame 30348) no dice. :( 2-7: Tried the alternative route up the wall, 199 frames slower. 2-8: Doublechecked to see if I could perform this glitch faster, no dice. 2-9: I like the new route much better. Though it isn't considerably faster, it looks much smoother. 2-10: This looks so cool at normal speed, I wonder if I could split the hammer into 3 or 4? :) 2-11: I think I shaved a few frames off of this. Witty Text

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/22/2006 5:14 PM

Quote

spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

What a coincidence: I played through the game yesterday and now I found this amazing WIP. I just watched your old run and was really impressed. I didn't know about the glitches, so I had to collect my jaw from the floor. ;) I really hope that you will finish this run!

Posted: 3/22/2006 5:21 PM

Quote

OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

Eventually, I'm recently got fired, so I'm looking for a job. And my grandmother asked me to come and help her rebuild her house, so that's where the next few weeks are going. But I've already invested a year in this on and off. So I'm going to finish it if it kills me... when I get all of my shit worked out.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 4/10/2006 3:22 PM

Quote