Secret of Mana is probably the game I'm most attached to, so anything related to it is of interest. Nevertheless, I think it could make a good movie because of its real-time battle sequences, unlike, say, Super Mario RPG. Since RPGs don't offer the same basis for quick completion of jump n' runs, you could reduce most of the boss battle sequences to one hit (unless there was some show-off way to defeat them), and ignore the leveling up. The powering up at the end really detracts from the otherwise great Chrono Trigger movie. Anyway, I'll watch whatever you put on here.
I think Zero had stopped working with this game. I think Nitsuja want to work on this game sometime in future, he need help with plan, route, new glitch decovery, etc..
Whenever Nitsuja announce that he is working on this, I'll get on finding plan/route/whatever to help him with this.
Being my favorite game of all time, I'd love a run of this.
If someone does this run, I'd help going over the plan/route.
Would these glitches help at all? Wouldn't the ability to get permanent power bonuses be extremely useful?
Would these glitches help at all? Wouldn't the ability to get permanent power bonuses be extremely useful?
I looked into running this myself a month ago, and had the idea to have Girl "buff" Boy's speed so that his... whatchamacallit.... "attack readyness meter" reaches 100% more quickly.
I never tested it, though, so I don't know if it would be worth the time it takes to buff, but I'm fairly certain nobody's mentioned the idea yet.
I'd like to know if there's any excuse that could justify whacking the monsters while running by. I'm guessing there isn't (unless it could avoid a leveling-up session somewhere?) but I get the feeling it'd make it more fun to watch than just running by everything.
Also, maybe the biggest unknown is if critical hits can be manipulated / how to manipulate them. I know that multiple hits can stack additively (into a single big damage number) if timed well enough, I'm not sure yet if physical attacks can combine with magic damage but charged hits and (I think) criticals can combine with other normal hits.
I'd like to know if there's any excuse that could justify whacking the monsters while running by. I'm guessing there isn't (unless it could avoid a leveling-up session somewhere?) but I get the feeling it'd make it more fun to watch than just running by everything.
That's the question, if killing just the bosses will give enough levels/magic levels to be enough. If not and a leveling session would be needed, then perhaps whacking em as you go would work.
nitsuja wrote:
I know that multiple hits can stack additively (into a single big damage number) if timed well enough, I'm not sure yet if physical attacks can combine with magic damage but charged hits and (I think) criticals can combine with other normal hits.
I'm pretty damn sure you can add on physical damage while an enemy is under an offensive spell.
But with the glitch to get permanent status effects, which supposedly stack, I was thinking any of these effects might be useful:
-Gnome->speed up - permanent hit and evade increase
-Gnome->defender - permanent defense increase
-Lumina->lucid barrier - permanent protection from attacks
-Dryad->Wall - permanent protection from magic
-Luna->Moon Energy - permanent crit increase
-Luna->Moon Saber - permanent HP steal
It cant take too much time to save and reset the game.
The mana sword glitch was mentioned earlier, again not sure if it would be worth it as it requires going through the whole intro again! It's worth pointing out, if it was useful you can do this more then once and level your sword early as long as you don't try to forge past level 9 (if i remember correctly, received a 10 orb doesn't bug the game, its when you try and forge again).
Another glitch that might be useful?:
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Avoid magic attacks using pygmy hammer/Moogle belt
Whenever an enemy character casts an attack spell on you or an ally use the pygmy hammer / moogle belt on the character being attacked , do this twice before the spell animation ends and if done correctly the character will completly avoid taking any damage. This trick is especially useful when you are fighting the Mana beast.
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Another thing not explicitly mentioned is that if you have to level magic, with the girl its easy to do it by someone like luna who you can replenish your MP by simply talking too.
And I know its been mentioned, but obviously the more places you can use 2-3 players the more entertaining the run would be.
That's the question, if killing just the bosses will give enough levels/magic levels to be enough. If not and a leveling session would be needed, then perhaps whacking em as you go would work.
Have you watched Zer0's (apparently abandoned) run? There's a short leveling session already in that, but I'm not sure how necessary it was.
badrad wrote:
It cant take too much time to save and reset the game.
Well, there doesn't seem to be a reset sequence... EDIT: ok nevermind.
badrad wrote:
Avoid magic attacks using pygmy hammer/Moogle belt
Whenever an enemy character casts an attack spell on you or an ally use the pygmy hammer / moogle belt on the character being attacked , do this twice before the spell animation ends and if done correctly the character will completly avoid taking any damage. This trick is especially useful when you are fighting the Mana beast.
Wouldn't it be faster to use some attack magic to stop the enemy from casting the spell in the first place?
badrad wrote:
And I know its been mentioned, but obviously the more places you can use 2-3 players the more entertaining the run would be.
Yeah... for traveling it would probably be fastest (most of the time) to keep switching characters to never stop running, except when their AI would do something dumb. In battles probably 3-player is fastest except for the consecutive magic trick that I think requires at least 1 CPU player. Good thing it's so fast to switch characters and activate/deactivate players.
Have you watched Zer0's (apparently abandoned) run? There's a short leveling session already in that, but I'm not sure how necessary it was.
I tried in both ZSNES and Snes9X and couldn't get it to work. I really wanted to see it. I tried it on the (U) rom and everything.
nitsuja wrote:
Well, there doesn't seem to be a reset sequence (unlike almost all Square games made after this one) so it'd require dying to reset the game, at least with Snes9x as it is now.
Wrong. L + R + SELECT + START = Reset.
nitsuja wrote:
Wouldn't it be faster to use some attack magic to stop the enemy from casting the spell in the first place?
Yes, your right, but the glitch could still be useful if for whatever reason you can't stop the attack.
nitsuja wrote:
Yeah... for traveling it would probably be fastest (most of the time) to keep switching characters to never stop running, except when their AI would do something dumb. In battles probably 3-player is fastest except for the consecutive magic trick that I think requires at least 1 CPU player. Good thing it's so fast to switch characters and activate/deactivate players.
I agree, I agree. Running is fastest with 1p because you can chain their sprints. Battles 3 players would be the fastest and most impressive. And your also correct that you need the player casting the magic to be the CPU to chain it.
I'm becoming very curious at what the time of such a run would clock in as.
Well, there doesn't seem to be a reset sequence (unlike almost all Square games made after this one) so it'd require dying to reset the game, at least with Snes9x as it is now.
Wrong. L + R + SELECT + START = Reset.
I'm also confirming this. I actually booted up the game to check, heh.
That's what I thought, but I tried it to make sure and it didn't work (because I was being stupid and also pressing Y). It still takes some time to do all that, though... yet another thing to test if it's worth considering.
badrad wrote:
I tried in both ZSNES and Snes9X and couldn't get it to work. I really wanted to see it. I tried it on the (U) rom and everything.
You're probably not using the right version of Snes9x. Try getting the one here.
Just watched Zer0s movie. Very good start. I don't think a SOM TAS would be boring at all, but then again its like my favorite game.
Have we figured out if luck can be manipulated to generate more crits?
And why wasn't Tropicallo timed so that he can take more hits? I know earlier in the thread zero said he couldnt get it, but Im pretty sure Ive gotten more then one longer above ground with him even with normal play.
So no one is actually planning a run, right? I'd volunteer, but I've never done one and am new to the community so I am probably not the best person for the job. Especially after watching Zer0s movie (the luck manipulation was real good, I wouldn't have thought of all of it.)
The hardest parts of the run would be figuring out what items to get and when, and what to level and when. Am I right?
I'd volunteer, but I've never done one and am new to the community so I am probably not the best person for the job. Especially after watching Zer0s movie (the luck manipulation was real good, I wouldn't have thought of all of it.)
I actually thought my try wasn't that good ;/
It's not hard to learn how to TAS, so if you have good knowledge of the game and patience you might should learn and give it a try ;)
And yes, count my run abandoned, I'm pretty much out of the TAS business, at least in doing it, watching - anytime ;)
And why wasn't Tropicallo timed so that he can take more hits? I know earlier in the thread zero said he couldnt get it, but Im pretty sure Ive gotten more then one longer above ground with him even with normal play.
Been a long time that I've done it, I'm not sure x_x
Have we figured out if luck can be manipulated to generate more crits?
Not me.
The hardest parts of the run would be figuring out what items to get and when, and what to level and when. Am I right?
One can always watch the run over at www.speeddemosarchive.com to get a rough outline of what has to be done right?
I'd love to make this run my self. But I got no spare time. :(
One can always watch the run over at www.speeddemosarchive.com to get a rough outline of what has to be done right?
I'll try to watch that. Not sure if its going to help, but it couldn't hurt.
Zer0 wrote:
badrad wrote:
I'd volunteer, but I've never done one and am new to the community so I am probably not the best person for the job. Especially after watching Zer0s movie (the luck manipulation was real good, I wouldn't have thought of all of it.)
I actually thought my try wasn't that good ;/
It's not hard to learn how to TAS, so if you have good knowledge of the game and patience you might should learn and give it a try ;)
I am contemplating making one as a learning experience. Probably a tough game to do for a first though :)
One of my questions is about luck manipulation. For example, in your run Zer0, at one point running up left after exiting pandora you do this little left right dance, which was luck manipulation to time it so the monsters move and you can get a large diagonal dash.
How would I know to do that?
Well, I've been playing around for a few hours, and have reached the conclusion that I am not the man for the job.
I've been doing tropicallo, and I can only get within a couple hundred frames of zer0s, let alone match or beat it.
Someone with more skill at TAS (and more free time) should be the one to do it.
I'll still watch this thread and help in any other way :)
Abusing the glitch to get a permament Moon Saber would not be a good idea because of a couple of things:
When you hit an enemy, you restore HP equal to the damage you cause the enemy. It will cause you to "lag" as you excute the "healing" animation (for example, if you use Chocolate on yourself, you'd notice that you freeze in position, regardless of what you are doing, while the healing animation excutes, WHILE everything else does not). It will just stall the game too much.
Another reason is that there are enemies that will actually make you lose HP if you hit them with Moon Saber on. Mainly undead, such as zombies. I am not sure about this, but I think one or two bosses are undead, so... either way, it's a no-no.
Besides, a permament Moon Saber isn't all what it's cracked up to be. And since this would be a TAS'd run, there's no real point in having Moon Saber up or do any big healing.
Bump.
I've been playing around with this game a bit and I can't seem to get Snex9x to let me control all three characters at once. I enable 3 inputs with the same buttons, and it even shows the button presses for all three, but the game doesn't give me control of all 3, only 2 at most.
What am I doing wrong?
I had this problem too when I played a session with two friends.
IIRC messing with the "Enable Multitab 5" option in the input dialogue got it to work then. Still, USB-joypad support was somehow broken, so we had to map all three controllers onto a single keyboard, but used two keybords (one ps2, one usb). On both of them all three players work, so two can play on the first, and the third player has a keybord to himself.
Mapping was (keys in order of input in the config screen):
#1:Up,Left,Down,Right,Num-3,Num-6,Num-2,Num-5,Enter,Num-0,Num4,Num-8
#2:W,A,S,D,G,H,F,T,Space,Ctrl,Q,Z
#3:I,J,K,L,End,PgDn,Delete,Home,Shift,(rest on USB joypad)
We chose this mapping so that it wouldn't mess wih any of the internal functions of Snes9X used in TASing.
It doesn't seem to matter if the keys are different or not. Having inputs 1 and 2 be the same keys or different works fine. Having 3 inputs that all have the same keys or all have different keys doesn't work. This is all with the multitap enabled.
That's interesting that it allowed you to do it with two keyboards. Maybe this is a weird snex9x issue?
EDIT: I figured things out after playing NBA Jam with four players on the same input (synchronized basketball anyone?). The multitap option must be checked and then you must press 7 (hotkey for switch controllers). Onscreen it then says Multiplayer 5 on #0. Then it works when you press start on a controller beyond 2. This works if all the keys are identical as well as different.
Multiple Weapon Orbs
Have one of character pick up treasure chest that contains weapon Orb (can't be boss / regular items), switch to other character keep pressing attack button near treasure chest.
What is the source for this last trick?
Have you tried it, because if it worked, you could also duplicate the sword orb I think. As there is as far as I remember one in a chest.
Also for sure this would help to accelerate the game.
If it is possible, is it possible multiple times with three characters?
cu
Fabian
I've never heard of that trick. Sometimes the game gives you two weapon orb chests in a row (where there seems to be only one) but this is probably because you have missed an orb somewhere, and this is the game's way of repairing the situation and getting you where you should be with the weapon orbs. I think this has just been misinterpretated as a multiple weapon orb trick here.
