highest level so that there's less distance to cover when teleporting and it would therefore take less time.
Hmm, good point. The teleport-out sfx appears in three places in the game code.
At 0B:A0D7 --
it issues a teleport-out sfx, then teleports object $00 at 8 pixels per frame upward until Y coordinate is negative, then adjusts object bits, possibly for the purpose of invisibilifying. (Loop termination rule is unknown.)
Note: Object $00 is usually Rockman.
At 0D:A224 ---
it issues a teleport-out sfx, then teleports object $10 at 8 pixels per frame upward until Y coordinate >= $F0. (Loop is terminated on this rule)
Note: Object $10 is not usually Rockman. Thus, this might be his stunt double Mockman who appears on the title screen.
At 0D:80E5 --
it issues a teleport-out sfx, but doesn't seem to do anything resembling teleporting an object vertically. There is horizontal movement.
It is probably the stage selection screen.
So it's possible that ending the battle at a high position would be a good idea, but uncertain.
CoolBumpty has explained it well. We had some brief discussion about this 8 pages back.
Remember, the glitch in the Heatman battle is more than just for show.
So it's possible that ending the battle at a high position would be a good idea, but uncertain.
Couldn't this be tested easily by ending a fight at different heights and counting the frames until a certain event?
Couldn't this be tested easily by ending a fight at different heights and counting the frames until a certain event?
Yes, that's exactly what I did.
This is a minor English grammar thing.
Bisqwit wrote:
Yes, through testing I can confirm that it really is as CoolBumpty suggested.
You have the ability to confirm this through testing, but you have not yet done this, is what this means.
Since you have already confirmed this then it should be written, "I have confirmed that it really is ..."
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Boco wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
KDR_11k wrote:
Couldn't this be tested easily by ending a fight at different heights and counting the frames until a certain event?
Yes, that's exactly what I did.
This is a minor English grammar thing.
Redundant and unnecessary. Please stick with the topic.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Naah, it's not an error on your part. I suppose Boco got confused with the "can confirm". Since it's a figure of speech it doesn't obey standard grammar rules. I just missed your post somehow.
New WIP.
https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/rockman2-shinryuu,bisqwit-pending-v2.3.6.fcm
Metalman stage almost completed. In the making of this stage, I tried to duplicate Finalfighter's "item1slight" technique, but instead, I discovered a better version of that technique. It only requires two items per rise (instead of three), and the items can be placed at greater distance, and it is also easier to place them.
I used this technique in every zipping in this stage, except the first, and I estimate it is 1.5 seconds faster than Finalfighter's Metalman stage.
Best of all, it's not over yet: I believe I can still push it further.
Worst of all: I believe we could use this technique twice in Woodman stage, saving 20-40 frames. It would most likely mean that Crashman, Quickman and Metalman have to be redone due to desyncing that usually occurs after copypasting. Crashman is the most troublesome, due to the technique where only BisqBot is good at.
Quickman is also an optimization candidate, with a prize of about 16 frames.
Looks good. As for whether to go back and redo these four stages, the decision is up to you guys. I would suggest thinking about this in terms of which pieces you might successfully copypaste and which pieces will definitely need to be redone.
Parts subject to randomness:
- Woodman lag-prone area with apes
- Crashman 1st substituted scrolling (relatively easy compared to 2nd?)
- Crashman 2nd substituted scrolling
- Crashman battle (although this might even stay in sync, since it depends on only his initial jump)
- Quickman battle
- Metalman stage after jester bots appear (lag)
Parts not subject to (much) randomness AFAIK:
- Woodman stage up until the apes
- Woodman battle
- 2nd half of Crashman stage after last substituted scroling
- all of Quickman stage
- Metalman stage up until jester bots appear
Due to Murphy's Law all of the above are candidates for desyncing regardless. On the positive side, this game can be pretty reasonable on staying in sync when there isn't lag. Consider that the entire Heatman stage was successfully moved even though it was originally played after destroying Bubbleman.
If there's a possibility of saving a second or so, I'd say that it would probably be best to go back. But I'm not the one who would have to do all the work, so of course it's up to the two of you. For me it's perfectly fine either way.
I was also wondering if scrolling through the menu could be faster or slower by playing the Woodman stage at different times. I don't remember where all the weapons are located in the menu, but if you have to pass the Woodman weapon in other stages, or if you'd have to pass the Crash/Quick/Metal/Bubble weapons in the Woodman stage, then the order of when the Woodman stage is played would matter a small amount. It's a small issue that doesn't matter much at all (like ending a battle on a higher platform saving a frame or two), but if those levels end up having to be redone anyway, it's something that may be worth considering, if it hasn't been considered already (since it's very much possible that Woodman first is the fastest in terms of the menu).
Sorry, I'd check it myself, but I have a headache at the moment and I really need to go to sleep. =P (it's 5am in my timezone)
Edit: After reading the last post, if things can be copied and pasted, then I'd say there isn't much point in worrying about that weapon select bit. And regardless of what ends up being done, the run is great thus far. =)
Heh. I also once overanalyzed that idea, and probably others here have also spent too much time doing so. Have you thought about the stage select screen too?
Fortunately (for sake of our heads), there aren't any pre-Wily spots in the run that involve switching directly between the air shooter and bubble lead.
I believe we could use this technique twice in Woodman stage, saving 20-40 frames.
The first place is out of question. Having three Items on screen in the push-up phase causes more lag (because of the dog's fireballs) than the trick would possibly save, and there's no way to do it without the first Item.
Checking the second place.
EDIT: The second place is a success, and it savessaved 15 frames.
EDIT 2: Now it desyncs in Crashman stage _after_ the first horizontal scrolling.
Details on the desync:
This is mystical.
[img_left]http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/snap/rm2cdes1.png[/img_left]This is the old movie.
Play #32310 - X=295.25+0.000 Y=84.00-0.250
Frame 32310: 1 on for 0
Play #32311 - X=295.25+0.000 Y=84.00+4.871
Play #32312 - X=296.56+1.312 Y=79.13+4.621
Play #32313 - X=297.88+1.312 Y=74.51+4.371
Play #32314 - X=299.19+1.312 Y=70.14+4.121
Frame 32314: 2 on for 0
Play #32315 - X=300.50+1.312 Y=66.02+3.871
Play #32316 - X=301.81+1.312 Y=62.14+3.621 (this is the frame shown in the image)
Play #32317 - X=303.12+1.312 Y=58.52+3.371
[img_left]http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/snap/rm2cdes2.png[/img_left]This is the new movie.
Play #32295 - X=295.25+0.000 Y=84.00-0.250
Frame 32295: 1 on for 0
Play #32296 - X=295.25+0.000 Y=84.00+4.871
Play #32297 - X=296.56+1.312 Y=79.13+4.621
Play #32298 - X=297.88+1.312 Y=74.51+4.371
Play #32299 - X=299.19+1.312 Y=70.14+4.121
Frame 32299: 2 on for 0
Play #32300 - X=300.50+1.312 Y=66.02+3.871
Play #32301 - X=301.81+1.312 Y=62.14+3.621 (this is the frame shown in image)
Play #32302 - X=303.12+1.312 Y=58.52+3.371
There is a 1 pixel difference between the heights of the Item1s in these images. Yet, the input are identical, and the coordinates of Rockman are identical. I have no idea why it happens.
EDIT 3: Surprisingly, this was a good thing. It saved 4 additional frames. However, now it desyncs in the second BisqBot-assisted scene. Time to fire up the bot again.
Hmm, this reminds me of how the height of a Shadow Blade I was throwing in Rockman World 3 would vary by a pixel depending on where I had thrown it before, and that affected whether I reached an enemy. Like, maybe there's some kind of oscillation to the fractional pixels or something.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
EDIT 3: Surprisingly, this was a good thing. It saved 4 additional frames. However, now it desyncs in the second BisqBot-assisted scene. Time to fire up the bot again.
The bot didn't do as well as the last time, shrinking the 19-frame gain into mere 3 frames.
However, there were other improvements in Crashman stage, which combined resulted in Crashman's door entered 31 frames earlier than in the previous WIP.
I tried fighting the boss, but I lost there 5 frames compared to Shinryuu's version. So it's Shinryuu's turn now.
After he's done, it's time to redo Quickman and Metalman.
a trick?
I planning a non tool assistent speedrun of Mega man 2. I use some tricks I haven´t seen before. I haven´t read all this post here, sorry. But If I remeber correctly this trick in the flash mans stage wasn´t used in the time attack of rockman 2 here.
Flash mans stage: In the very end of the stage. Just before the two doors before the boss.. After used the Jet earlier you can still have it equipped and instead of jumping up to the plattform and move a little to the left then jump up to the right one. Instead use your jet wich should have some bars left...Use it to reach the boss door. It should save you some frames.. Maybee´I´m wrong here but I tried to help you =P Its exactly there Sleepz do one of his very few mistakes in his console played speedrun. If I remember it wasn´t used in the TAS here.
Air man isn't dead at this point in the TAS movies, item 1 saves more time in the Air man stage than the item 2 in the Heat man stage, and item 3 saves more time in the Heat man stage than item 2 in the Flash man stage. :)
on airman stage on the first set of big faces with 2 screws why don't you land on the right side of the last screw instead jumping over it and the gap, I thought you moved faster on the ground.
Also, for small jumps before falling where you hit a ceiling, Zoizite found it was faster to do large jump even though you hit the ceiling anyway, are you doing this?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
