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Posted: 4/9/2006 7:41 PM
(Edited: 4/9/2006 7:58 PM)
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Bisqwit
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Highness wrote:
Would it possible to travel all the way in the floor instead of the ceiling, or is that impossible?
Certainly, if you just could somehow enter the solid. [Edit: That gives me an idea...] [Edit2: Too bad it didn't work. I tried if it's possible to zip through the bamboo stick in the scene with birds in Woodman stage. But I don't see how it would be possible to enter that height in the wall.]
Posted: 4/9/2006 7:44 PM
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Highness
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Joined: 8/24/2004
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Hehe.. Finally I'm contributing with dumb things that might give people ideas. :D *feels a warming sensation and hardening nipples*
Posted: 4/9/2006 7:59 PM
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Graveworm
Former player
Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460
I don't know if this is a stupid question, but I couldn't find it in the Rockman tricks page. Anyway, in Wood Man's stage for example, just after the long zip at the three screens with dogs, Shinryuu (and Morimoto/Finalfighter, whoever did that part.) uses item one to get up in the roof, and then when Rockman transfers to the next screen he's at the top of the screen. (You all know this, I don't even know why I tried to explain.) I've looked at the input for this part in Shinryuu's video, but I still can't reproduce this trick, and I wonder how it works. And if it's possible to do without using slowdown/frame advance and save states.
Posted: 4/9/2006 8:03 PM
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Bisqwit
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Graveworm wrote:
just after the long zip at the three screens with dogs, Shinryuu (and Morimoto/Finalfighter, whoever did that part.) uses item one to get up in the roof, and then when Rockman transfers to the next screen he's at the top of the screen.
After you enter the ceiling, jump a few times. This will make Rockman descend a bit in the next screen. Each jump will put Rockman 11 pixels more to the down. When you think Rockman might be on the right height, press left and up/down to grab the ladder that is on Rockman's right side. (Left is pressed to exit the wall by zipping out from it.) When the screen scrolls, you will see whether Rockman is on the height you thought he'll be.
Posted: 4/9/2006 8:38 PM
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Graveworm
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Posts: 460
I couldn't do it, I guess I don't quite understand, but thanks for trying to help me, I appreciate it.
Posted: 4/9/2006 11:43 PM
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hanzou
Player (21)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Yeah, this is still missing from the Rockman tricks page. When I first tried to get it working, there weren't any .fcm files available so that I could watch the button presses. Now, at least you have Shinryuu's WIP for which you could load up in FCEU and frame-advance through the input display. Also, here is a short demo I made a while back that starts from a save-state: laddertech.fcm
Posted: 4/10/2006 3:34 PM
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Bisqwit
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hanzou wrote:
Yeah, this is still missing from the Rockman tricks page.
Good point. Will fix some day.
Posted: 4/10/2006 6:50 PM
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Graveworm
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Joined: 9/29/2005
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In a place like in hanzou's movie and on the left side of the part with the dogs in Wood man's stage, (where you start the long zip), I can do this ladder technique, but it's different in the place I mentioned, where Shinryuu uses it, I can't get it to work there, I don't know what's different, I just know that it doesn't work. And like I wrote, I've watched Shinryuu's video, but I still can't get it to work. I play alot of Rockman 2, but I've never played it using frame advance, so I usually only use the easiest zips and tricks to complete the game a bit faster, but this trick will certainly save another couple of seconds, and it also looks really neat. Also, I'm kinda dense in the head. :/
Posted: 4/10/2006 6:51 PM
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Bisqwit
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Graveworm wrote:
In a place like in hanzou's movie and on the left side of the part with the dogs in Wood man's stage, (where you start the long zip), I can do this ladder technique, but it's different in the place I mentioned, where Shinryuu uses it, I can't get it to work there, I don't know what's different, I just know that it doesn't work.
Can you show me an FCM of your attempt and I'll tell you what's going wrong if anything.
Posted: 4/10/2006 6:56 PM
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Graveworm
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Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460
It probably wont help, I have no idea of how it works. I wont waste your time with that, I'll just say that when I try to do this, I can't get anywhere, Mega Man just stays where he is.
Posted: 4/10/2006 6:57 PM
(Edited: 4/10/2006 7:13 PM)
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Bisqwit
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Graveworm wrote:
It probably wont help, I have no idea of how it works. I wont waste your time with that, I'll just say that when I try to do this, I can't get anywhere, Mega Man just stays where he is.
You're wasting my time if you don't give me a clue as to how to improve my instructions. When I don't know what exactly you are doing wrong, I can only guess and the things I say might not be helpful at all. [Edit: The point is, I want to see what you're doing.]
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:12 PM
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Shinryuu
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latest WIP.. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/983/Rockman2-NES-Shinryuu%26Bisqwit-v2.3.3.fcm Quickman defeated.. if someone interested currently im working with Bisqwit and i have worked about half year with this RUN i think.. but... run is going to be finished much faster now with combining Shinryuu's & Bisqwit's skillz.. :)
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:19 PM
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JXQ
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It seems this is a common phenomenon, and it may not matter to many who don't watch with controller input, but... Many of your buttons (in Woodman's stage is where I first noticed this) are pressing the same buttons on controller 1 and 2 at the same time. Probably doesn't matter in this game, but I know it would cause some headaches in MM3.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:21 PM
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Shinryuu
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ah.. JXQ i played mm3 with Player 2 input "just playing around"... and i forgot to take PL2 options off.. that's the reason :)
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:22 PM
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Bisqwit
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Shinryuu wrote:
ah.. JXQ i played mm3 with Player 2 input "just playing around"... and i forgot to take PL2 options off.. that's the reason :)
I'll nesmock the P2 input off the next time I copypaste...
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:25 PM
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Shinryuu
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okay.. that's fine :) i noticed the P2 Input when i watched woodmanstage after finishing it..
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:26 PM
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JXQ
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It was only in that one part on Woodman's stage anyway, so it wasn't even a big bother for me, the controller-input watcher :) Anyway, this looks great, my only question was in Crashman around frame 33715, you seemed to stay on the Item-1 for a bit long. Do you travel faster riding it up than using the ladder for a bit?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:28 PM
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Bisqwit
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JXQ wrote:
in Crashman around frame 33715, you seemed to stay on the Item-1 for a bit long. Do you travel faster riding it up than using the ladder for a bit?
Item1 elevates 0.25 pixels per frame, Rockman climbs 0.75 pixels per frame. So no, it is not faster to ride the item. However, while Rockman is in his "look at my hand, I just threw something" pose, he can't climb. (He can grab a ladder, but not climb it down or up.) So it's faster to stand on the item, which does move upwards after all.
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:31 PM
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JXQ
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Bisqwit wrote:
his "look at my hand, I just threw something" pose
LOL Look at my hand, I just threw something! Amazing! Thanks for the answer :)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:50 PM
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Truncated
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Is groundspeed > airspeed in this game, as it is in Mega Man 1? If it is I can't tell for sure if it's used correctly all the time. Unrelated: at 34928 and some other places in Clashman stage, you hold on to the ladders a while after using item 3. Can you cancel out of it by jump+regrab? Or do you have to wait for the item to raise anyway?
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:53 PM
(Edited: 4/11/2006 1:28 PM)
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Bisqwit
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Truncated wrote:
Is groundspeed > airspeed in this game, as it is in Mega Man 1?
Yes, the speeds are precisely the same as in Rockman 1. Accelerations have however changed. The differences and exact values are listed here: http://tasvideos.org/RockmanData.html#horizontal_motion_ Edit: If you noticed some flaw somewhere, please do mention it. > at 34928 and some other places in Clashman stage, you hold on to the ladders a while after using > item 3. Can you cancel out of it by jump+regrab? Or do you have to wait for the item to raise anyway? Releasing the ladder does not cancel the "look at my hand" pose delay in this game.
Posted: 4/10/2006 7:59 PM
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JXQ
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Bisqwit, please call it by its awesome full name you invented, the "Look at my hand, I just threw something!" pose. (Exclamation point added by JXQ)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/10/2006 8:38 PM
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hanzou
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Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
re: Graveworm, I haven't found it any more difficult to do the ladder technique at that Woodman spot as compared to the Wily1 ladder. I use turbo and it usually takes many rerecords, but I do it without slowmode or frame advance. I watched the WIP. Great work guys! Dodging the energy drop in Crashman stage was a surprise. Only problem I noticed is that on the Quickman battle you didn't end on the highest platform (one of kolechovski's timesavers). Was there no way to do that without losing more than 2 frames in the fight?
Posted: 4/11/2006 10:58 AM
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Bisqwit
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hanzou wrote:
Only problem I noticed is that on the Quickman battle you didn't end on the highest platform (one of kolechovski's timesavers). Was there no way to do that without losing more than 2 frames in the fight?
Caught uneducated. I don't know what this item is about.
Posted: 4/11/2006 12:45 PM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
I'm guessing that the teleportation up and out of the boss room takes a varying amount of time depending on how high you end the fight, and that the game will wait out Rockman is off the screen before going ahead with the weapon information screen. So it's best to end up on the highest level so that there's less distance to cover when teleporting and it would therefore take less time. (very slightly) Of course I could easily be completely off. And I didn't know about that either. Regardless of whether what I said was right or not. =P Oh, and as always, very nice work. =)
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