Ok, I got 4175
I think I've done the level itself as good as I could, all I need to do now is tweak the boss fight. What do you think?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
The only thing that caught my eyes was that there was some lag in the beginning of the level. This was when you had 3 bullets on the screen at the same time... try to avoid this, since it often causes lag. As for the boss.... I thought it looked good, perhaps you can walk up to him more as you're shooting?
Anyway, it's a great improvement, so keep it up. :)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Those 20 seconds were actually just something I calculated by dividing the time for my testrun with Tailz time for level 1, and I got that my stage was like 98% as fast as his, and then I just multiplied that number with Tailz full time...
But if he keeps this up, the improvement could be... I don't know, about 40-45 seconds? When you think about it, only level 1 has now been improved by several seconds, who knows what can be done with the other levels. :)
Wow, it's been a while since I posted an update on this thread. I took a break for a bit and remotivated myself and now I'm back at it again. This time, I got 4139 on stage 1. 1 frame faster than Acmlm's attempt. I'm going to go with this one. I have no idea how Baxter got 4128 but this is the best I can do. Get it here.
Randil is right, there is a very small amount of lag when 3 bullets are on the screen at once. It's so subtle that you won't notice it unless you're looking for it. I managed to avoid having 3 bullets on the screen at once until the boss fight, where it is unavoidable.
I also did stage 2. I reached the end at 9418. 9418(both stages) - 4139(stage 1) = 5279(stage 2). This stage was kinda fun. I hit every edgeboost I could except for one, around frame 6200 there's a mushroom that keeps me from using the edgeboost because any attempt sends me headfirst into him. I tried to shoot it but the gun is too far above him to hit. I ended up edgeboosting on the ledge right before it and jumping over the thing completely. The boss fight is interesting, I think you'll like how I did it.
I did some comparing with this run and the cancelled run and found that this run is much faster than the other one. On the old run I finish stage 1 at frame 4398, stage 2 at 5493 and had a total of 9891 frames. With the current run, I finish stage 1 at 4139, stage 2 at 5279 and have a total of 9418 frames. I saved 259 frames on the first stage, and 214 frames on the second stage for a total of 473 frames! At this rate I should be able to improve the run by at least 30 seconds.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Good to see you're still working on this, I was just about to ask how you were progressing when i saw this post.
I watched your WIP, and I can't say anything else but great job. The edgeboost trick was used everywhere it could be used (at least what I saw), you didn't stop anywere (like where you stopped in the second stage in your first movie), and I didn't notice any lag. I don't think it gets any faster than this now. :)
One tiny flaw in the movie is that you don't kill all enemies that you can kill. Not that this saves any time, but it makes the run look a little cooler perhaps. But in general you kill all enemies that are killable without slowing down, so it's no biggy at all.
One question on the second boss fight: Is it faster (and if so, how much faster?) to kill the two werewolves with Amagon rather than using Megagon? I mean, sice you turn into Megagon after you've killed them, you will still have to put up with the waiting period of turning into Megagon... Although with Amagon I guess you can kill them at a greater distance, but on the other hand they take less attacks to kill with Megagon... Meh, I don't know, this is probably a stupid question... :)
A great improvement, I hope you get another WIP up soon. Good luck!
One question on the second boss fight: Is it faster (and if so, how much faster?) to kill the two werewolves with Amagon rather than using Megagon?
I did some testing and found that it is faster to transform into Megagon and kill the two werewolves than it is to just kill them with Amagon. With Megagon I finish the stage at frame 9357, whereas with Amagon I finish at 9418; a difference of 61 frames. It's tricky to kill the werewolves by punching because they are always a set distance away from you. If you get inside said distance, they back up then stop when they are far enough away. Megagon's punches are the worst in the world and are very hard to manipulate. I can't figure out how they work, sometimes I can get him to punch while without stopping, and other times he stops for a few frames then punches.
It takes 243 frames to transform into Megagon and while transforming the game pauses, nothing moves at all until you finish transforming. I transformed into Megagon before the first werewolf and it takes 2 energy blasts(?) to kill them. That also takes 2 notches off the health bar. The second werewolf takes another 2 blasts, so that's 2 more notches. The first form of the boss takes 3 blasts, taking a total of 7 notches. His final form takes 4 blasts, making it 11. I have 10 notches on the health bar.
I'm going to try killing the first werewolf with Amagon then transforming into Megagon to kill the second werewolf and the boss. I'll have 2 extra notches from not using him against the first werewolf, which will give me enough health to kill the boss, if I don't get hit by him ;).
I'll let you know how that turns out.
EDIT: Tested it, still faster to kill both werewolves with Megagon; killing 1 werewolf then transforming finishes the stage at frame 9402, 45 frames slower than killing both with Megagon. I'm going to try to finish off the boss with a punch or two.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Ok, redid the boss fight and now I kill both werewolves with Megagon. The stage finishes at frame 9316, 102 frames faster than without Megagon! You can see it here. Did I mention how annoying Megagon's punch is? No matter what frame I hit the punch button on, he would not extend his arm until frame 8929. He may be halfway through the boss but the game will not register the hit until the arm extends.
Also, at frame 8913 it looks like I miss the boss. I actually connect with the boss on frame 8908 or so. I have no idea how this works because I couldn't get it to happen again for the final hit but I somehow hit the boss before the arm came up. Just letting you guys know I didn't miss.
I'm done with this for tonight, kinda tired. Will continue tomorrow and will post a new WIP.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Wow. That is really good. I'm at 2-2 currently, making great progress. I'll post a WIP when I finish 2-2.
Now I'm faced with a question. Seeing as how Baxter proved it is possible (I believed him anyway) to get 4128 on the first level, should I redo it? I think 4139 is pretty good, but if you guys think I should redo it, then I shall. What say you?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Maybe you can get someone to hex-edit a new version of 1-1 into the movie... Or maybe you have found other really small parts in the movie that can be done a little faster.
As Guybrush said, if you feel up for it, then redo it. Faster is always better. But don't panic, 11 frames is not an awful lot. I will forgive you if you don't redo 1-1 just for that. :)
I think you should decide for yourself if you want to redo it. It would probably be better, but I'm not going to get into that, since I know how annoying it is to redo things, and the game doesn't really interest me that much, so it isn't really my task to say whether or not you should redo it.
Randil wrote:
Maybe you can get someone to hex-edit a new version of 1-1 into the movie...
... You are kidding, right? I would be more amazed than I've ever been before if all other levels, besides level 1-1 were played perfect. I don't know the game that well... but level 1-1 probably isn't the hardest level (the designers would have done something rather strange if this were the case).
If you decide on redoing it, you should also test stuff like if the powered up super version of the game character walks faster, than if you are normal. You should test howmany hits the boss takes with the super version, and with the normal version, and test how much faster he can be beaten with either way. You should also test how many frames it takes to transform.
My notes on level 1-1:
- Make sure you don't have lag.
- Make sure you kill the enemies in a way, so you don't have to release pressing 'right'.
- Only jump if you need to get up on some platform, jumping costs a frame.
- Walk off every edge possible. If you can walk on, don't jump off the edge. If you would fall, jump off the edge at the last possible frame.
- Some enemies from behind must be shot. Shoot them by pressing left on frame X. Press right+fire at frame X+1, and keep walking. Some of the times, the game character moves a pixel or 2 back when pressing these keys, and sometimes, he just keeps walking to the right. Make sure the screen moves forward at all frames, when shooting an enemy from the back.
- Shoot your shots at the first frame they are able to hit the boss. Shoot all of you 3 bullets (can't have more bullets on-screen), and fire new shots, when you have hit him as fast as possible. Keep walking to the front, up to the point, where you will be killed, if you would keep standing there shooting. This means that at the frame you kill the boss, he will be at the closest position possible from you. Walk forward at the first frame possible after he dies.
If you keep to these rules, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to also get a time of 4128. Also use these rules for the levels ahead, I think they will be usefull to you (even though some might seem over obvious).
Sorry about the lack of updates on this, I've been kinda preocupied (curses FFXI). I would like you all to know that I am still working on this and one day it will be completed. Here's a new WIP.
At the moment I am on 2-2. 2-1 is done, and I'm about half-way done with 2-2, but I've got a problem. As you know stages 2-1 and 2-2 deal with the flying turtles. In stage 2-2 I ride a flying turtle across a big gap around frame 18600 or so. When I reach land I jump off and start running because running is faster than riding the turtle. As I run and use edgeboosts the turtle slowly gets pushed offscreen. At frame 19240 or so the turtle is supposed to re-emerge and ferry me across another gap. There lies the problem: the turtle doesn't come back. I stand there and kill enemies waiting for it to come but it never does. I found that if I stop around frame 19131 and go backwards, the turtle will appear and follow me. That seems to be the only way to get the stupid thing to come. I don't want to do that though, not when I've made it to that point so fast. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this problem?
Also, at frame 18848 I miss an edgeboost. This is unavoidable. If I take the edgeboost I wind up getting hit by the spider-creature above me. I tried many times but could not find any other way around this. By not edgeboosting I am far enough back to shoot the creature instead of plow into it.
Almost forgot, here's a savestate.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
If you have to use the turtle you jumped off earlier anyway, why don't you just stay on the turtle? There's no use in moving faster if you have to wait for it to reach a certain point anyway.
Or does the turtle reach that point faster if you run ahead?
Ok, solved the problem with the stupid turtle. I wound up having to jump back on the stump behind me to get it to appear. This caused me to lose some frames (around 64) but I think you'll agree with me that it's ok. I reached the end of 2-2 at frame 24071. Despite giving up those frames, I am 1091 frames ahead of my previous attempt! I think that's a nice improvement ;).
Here's the WIP.
You can use the same savestate as before. You'll notice that I miss an edgeboost or two. I'm not sure of the exact frames I miss them on but when I do miss them, notice the spider monster thing. On more than one occasion I was forced to skip the edgeboost because the boost would put me right under the spider thing and kill me. This is unavoidable and thankfully didn't happen too often.
I'm working on 3-1 and 3-2 now and after watching how I did them on my previous attempt, I can say that they are going to be "fun". Expect another WIP in the near future.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Running ahead of the turtle in 2-2 is much faster than riding on it. It would take well over 100 frames to get to the problem point and that wouldn't be worth it.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Hey Tailz. Just watched your WIP now (yeah I know, it took me a few days...) and it still looks very good. :) I'm also bumping this to see if you've made any more progress?
Whoa... I had no idea it had been so long since my last post. First let me say I'm sorry for not posting for so long. I've been really lazy and haven't been working on the game as much as I should. I am still working on this though, albeit I'm progressing really slow.
I am now finished with stages 3-1 and 3-2 and have begun work on 4-1. The edgeboost is being used everywhere it is possible, but most of the rocks in 3-1 and 3-2 don't allow the trick to work. I finish stage 3-2 on frame 36536, which is 1330 frames faster than my previous attempt.
You can get the WIP here. Again I'm sorry this is taking so long. Those of you who want to see this run completed please bear with me on this, it will be done soon. I am going to try my hardest to get this finished before the end of the month.
You can get a savestate here.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
