Post subject: Destiny of an Emperor
Twisted_Eye
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Capcom's first RPG, made in 1989-90, is really an excellent game. It takes place in ancient china where war breaks out when no one can decide whether Final Fantasy or Pokemon is better and in the process create something of a mix between the two. Actually, the game's storyline is taken right out of the ancient text, "Romance of the Three Kingdoms," and, in fact, many of the game's characters are shared with the game series of that name as well. (And Dynasty Warriors, and DoaE's sequels of course, etc.) Battles are done kinda like if the light warriors in Final Fantasy fought other groups of light warriors, and as you progress in the game you can hire or convert other generals to join your side, somewhat like Pokemon, though there's only one of each general in existence. Which makes sense anyway. I've got the game split up into 'chapters' though the game doesn't label them any differently. The game does noticably get stronger after defeating every major plot character(s) though, sometimes by leaps and bounds, so the movie will require drastically different strategies as the game goes on, depending on my strength, my enemies' 'soldiers' (HP), and my 'tactics' (magic). And to complicate things further, Destiny of an Emperor comes with a function I've never quite seen replicated: All-Out. When the point comes that you're just going to have all your characters Attack over and over, you can select this and the game will play through rapidly, selecting your targets at random. While this makes it harder to optimize the battle, it can make the battle go much, much, much faster; in my movie, the first two battles are All-Out from the start, and the third uses very little All-Out. The end result? The third battle alone is nearly longer than the whole movie up to that point! So juggling between these two options to maximize time while keeping my group healthy to minimize trips to the inn will definitely be interesting. Do I All-Out to win as quickly as possible or do I strategize my attack, allowing me to optimize my strikes for successes and criticals on my side and failures and misses on theirs? On the plus side, the game's random battles are nearly as easy to avoid as Dragon Warrior; stopping for one or two frames along the way can prevent any unwanted meanies from popping up. If I'm walking around China and I suddenly get attacked, it's because I want to capture the enemy general that attacks me (At this point in my planning, I'm only expecting to catch Han Zhong, Hua Xiong, and Pang Tong this way, the freebies in the game are powerful enough). As far as level gaining is concerned, for a TAS there's not much to be gained from it. The only generals whose armies are influenced by your level are the Five Tigers (basically your main characters), Zhu Ge Liang (your main tactician), and Jiang Wei, a tactician apprentice you meet at the very end of the game that can give you the tactics that Liang doesn't want to learn (An Sha chiefly among them--the instant kill tactic. I plan to ENJOY this tactic quite a bit :) :)). The only other benefit to leveling is that you gain a new tactic practically every level, however, most tactics are not helpful, especially in a TAS (last I checked, NO ONE has any idea what the tactics Cheng Nei and Jie Ce actually DO). http://www.twistedeye.net/DestEm.fcm Here's the link to the WIP. I conquer Chapter One, the Yellow Scarves, and start battle six. I'm not sure what precisely the rom is called yet (y'know, the whole [!] [b1] business) because it came with a pack of poorly named roms, but I know that it is the official english version like the game I played for years as a kid, and it works pretty well, so it shouldn't be a problem. Even if it's not precisely the preferred rom, it should be close enough to not desync, hopefully. And when you're loading the movie, look at its stats ;D (Oh and can someone help me hexedit my author info in there? I ended continuing the movie that I'd forgotten to put 'Twisted Eye' in) All comments welcome, if anyone thinks that this game might not be a good enough game to TAS or if I don't look like I'm doing a great job, let me know, I'd love to hear it before I get too far in hehe. If you want to know WHY I do something I do, just ask
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ROM it worked for me (checksums lined up too): Destiny of an Emperor (U) (it also worked with a few other U versions) have no idea what the hell im watching honestly, but all out was pretty funny. how long do you estimate this to take?
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Here is a speedrun / walkthrough video (of the Japanese version but there are no gameplay changes) which finishes at 5h45, if you need some help with basic strategy or where to go when. (it's not tool-assisted) This is one of my favorite games of all time by the way. Edit: This game is based on Motomiya Hiroshi's manga "Tenchi wo Kurau" (Devouring Heaven and Earth) which is the entire reason I'm into Chinese mythology / Eastern religion / Eastern history / manga & anime. Edit2: Why do you recruit Song Yong and Song Ren? They are useless. Not only do you waste time to recruit them but during battle all they do for you is 2 damage, which takes a hit animation, and taking hits from enemies. If you actually need someone aside from the brothers try Mi Zhu in Xuzhou. Personally I would wait for Chen Deng (why is he your tactician anyway? keep 5 or less people and use Liu Bei) Edit3:
(last I checked, NO ONE has any idea what the tactics Cheng Nei and Jie Ce actually DO)
Cheng Nei = city walls. It reduces enemy defense if you're fighting a fortified location (a castle). It's not worth using usually. Jie Ce = heals negative status (that is, counters Ji Rou, Wuo Jian, Shui Jian, etc) Edit4: Do you really need to talk to Zhang Shiping? I mean, Zhang Fei is pretty rich all by himself. (and anyway I don't think you need to feed your army before your first battle, which since it's a story battle will give you food).
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
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I tried this game myself about a year ago (that was one of my old favorites too), twice too: 1 - 29:53, a little farther than the Lu Bu part 2 - 9:14, after the fight with Hua Xiong My second one got to Hua Xiong almost 2 minutes faster than yours, here's what was mostly different in mine: - I didn't get the starting gold and rations (I get enough from all the boss fights already) - I didn't recruit Song Ren and Song Yong - I didn't get Chen Deng, but got Mi Zhe - I went to the inn between most fights, it might have cost some time but allows me to use All-Out more often, like in the 3rd battle When using All-Out all the way doesn't work, you can manipulate luck during the fight by interrupting All-Out with B and doing it again. Only do manual actions if single turn All-Out still isn't enough. Tactics are useless at the start, but not so much once you get the one that does 150-200 damage (around the later Lu Bu fights), then the stronger ones later and obviously An Sha at the end ... I'd say the more interesting part when doing a run for this game will be how you manage to get through the later parts ... since you're going to be underleveled and will have to fight enemies with more than twice as much life as you (soon after where I stopped my 1st one, I get one that's 300 vs 800 and seems very hard if not impossible), the trick will be to recruit all the best ones you can find on the way, since they'll usually be stronger than the main characters (where I stopped my 2nd one, I wanted to get Hua Xiong, but it seems this will be hard to manipulate).
Twisted_Eye
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Well, you've all sure given me a lot to think about ;P Wherre do I start. Uh, Song Ren and Song Yong were meant to keep the other guys healthier between all-outs, since being at the top let them take damage more frequently I'd read--but you know what, that makes sense, healing between battles doesn't take too long. Or at least not long enough for it getting those two to be helpful. I'd hadn't thought of that. Looks like I'll redo this whole chapter then! I chose Chen Deng instead of Mi Zhe because well mainly because it kept me out of Xu Zhuo at the start and gave me another tactician with good health, and he's got more strength than Zhe. Your idea of using All-Out back and forth with B I definitely like, especially if I use inns more to keep health up As far as not talking to that Zhang Shi Ping----WHOA. I always thought you started the game empty! haha wow. I'll go back and reread where I'd read about the game and what the tactics do, I'll definitely look into Jie Ce because I never found it to do anything. Keep in mind I was first playing this game before I was 7 so I'm not surprised that it'd never crossed my mind! I'm definitely going to watch what you all have shown me and look into starting over! Thanks
Twisted_Eye
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ALLLRIGHTY, combining a bunch of ideas from you fine people and a couple route changes of my own design, this newest remake of the movie is a good bit of an improvement: The frame that Liu Bei says 'Yes' to rule: New movie: 25303 Acmlm movie #1: 26161 Acmlm movie #2: 26854 My first attempt: 32480 (ouch haha) So this here is 858 frames improved. I defeat Zhang Bao first and take his axe, heal and get Mi Zhe equipped with flail, and then defeat Zhang Jao and take HIS axe. On the way back I 'convince' Han Zhong to join me and heal again, and then finally take out Zhang Liang and the backroads Yellow Scarves battle in one go. I never not-all-out, heck, at the end of the movie I still haven't even selected a strategist :P I'm sure that better usage of All-Out cancelling and restarting might yield a slightly quicker movie, but there are SO many combinations that I don't even want to START. (If you want, I can show you tons of them that DIDN'T ;P) I give the third axe to Guan Yu rather than Zhong because Zhong'd only do like 5 more damage with it on, Yu'd improve twice that much. Really, though, I think that this starting area is the most flexible in the entire game; most of the rest is pretty darn linear, so perfect strategies would really come down to who you hire to fight and finding all of the hidden weapons and quick paths to weapon chests. (There are enough, really, that I believe a trip to a weapons shop should never be necessary. And forget armor, or at least not until much later in the game if at all.) http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor1.fcm Thanks again for your help so far! My real problem at this point is how to deal with Lu Bu. I could plow through without bothering with the Gemsword at all like in Acmlm's first movie or I could go for Guan Ping, Hua Xiong, the gold key, the gemsword, and finally Lu Bu. I can't quite tell if the benefit I get from hiring him and Ping would really be worth the time it'd take to do it. They're both very strong and have a large amount of soldiers for the area, and Lu Bu would be removed completely from two major battles. Worst case scenario I just run through Dong Zhuo (and maybe even through Yuan Shu) in BOTH ways and compare at that point.
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Lu Bu lets you what, skip one battle? Yet it takes HOW long to get him? And then even being the strongest man in the world doesn't help you because he just leaves. The traitor.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Twisted_Eye
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Well he gets removed from the battle you convince him and the last Dong Zhuo battle, but looking into it there are other generals in the area that are really strong. OH. I forgot, that's why I wasn't going to bother with him, you have the Ye Huo spell by then, one quick round of multiple Ye Huos will wipe him out easy, and that's only if all-out is way too much trouble. Which it shouldn't be. so YEAH. It's decided.
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I didn't had the energy to read the huge amounts of text above this post but I must say that it's awesome that someone finally makes a run of this awesome game! I had it on my todo-list but never got to do it so this is really awesome. I bet it has been said already, but as I remember it the battles are manipulative so that you don't have to have any random encounters at all. Anyway, good luck with the run! Can't wait to see it!
/Walker Boh
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I like this particular song theme from this game. http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/miscmusic/destiny.mid But I wonder where else I have heard it... (Generated with http://bisqwit.iki.fi/source/sndtool2.html from a log file created with nezplay, build-instructions of which can also be found on that page
Twisted_Eye
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UPDATE: Dong Zhuo dead. I'm now nearly up to the point where Acmlm's first movie ended, but I'm 2:12 (8024 frames) ahead. -Luo Yang (First fight with DZ and Lu Bu) was hellacious to conquer because I tried a number of different methods. It took quite a few days alone. The winner ended up being Acmlm's movie's method, with one minor difference: I let Han Zhong bite the bullet at the second gate. He's Huo Hu minus soldiers and minus tons of intelligence, so he's really not very helpful here on out. Bringing Huo Hu into the fight as a result gives me 4 able or decent tacticians to bounce around with as I please, hehe. (That and how he looks like Mi Zhe is kinda funny in the field) http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor2.fcm (At the end of the movie I'm just checking if I REALLLy have to do the whole 'invite Liu Bei, rest, talk to guy' thing after all, which sadly I do) I don't think I'll have a problem with running out of men at Nan Yang (Yuan Shu's last stand) and its two gates, I've got either Ji Ling or Zhang Xun that I can pick up for 600+ soldiers and 180+ strength after the city after next that'll fill that seventh slot (finally) should Yuan Shu be too much trouble with the crew I have currently. ...Catch one of those two and keep Zhong's corpse, then after Yuan Shu I'll dump Zhong, Zhe, and Feng and pick up Xu Zhe and Zhao Cang in that cave on the left and conquer the Jing Zhou area, which should make Yuan Shao much much easier to beat than to go in the reverse order and try to beat Jing Zhou after Shao. Pick up 6 gullwings (maybe more I'll doublecheck) at Ling Ling to fly back to Nan Yang to conquer Shao and then use those gullwings to hurry through the whole necessary Zhu Ge Liang fiasco before continuing.
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Remember to actually kill Yuan Shu. You have to order it three times I think.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Twisted_Eye
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Yep, looking forward to it, actually ;P
Twisted_Eye
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Update: Yuan Shu dead One night later and I'm one chapter farther. http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor3.fcm You'll notice after the final battle that, uh, I'm on the wrong side of the castle to go right to the bridge and do the Yuan Shao encounter. I missed a little forethought there, so I'm just going to redo the battle frame by frame but from the left side instead. It SHOULD prove to come out precisely identical since it's the same number of steps, and then after the battle I have two less steps to walk. 16 or so frames. 16 USEFUL frames to manipulate that nasty bridge 'fight.' And, no, I wasn't ever able to catch either of the two generals I wanted, though if I go a good deal out of my way time-wise and equip those two robes I've had the whole game Lei Bo appears. Not quite worth it, and I survive anyway. EDIT: Bah. Redoing the battle was not working, and rewatching the battle I realized that Liu Feng flatlines; I'd meant for Mi Zhe to take the punishment after all, so I'm going to keep what I've done up to the end, redo the end of the Yuan Shu battle, heal, and manipulate the bridge to do minimal damage. Take out the first castle in the northern regions with the trident and Ye Huos and I'll be on my way.
Twisted_Eye
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UPDATE: Jing Zhou settled. http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor4.fcm I don't think I'll ever need to pick up an enemy general that isn't a freebie. Han Zhong is such a lucky exception for such a total loser! Pang Tong just won't be enough of a help, even with three times the health of my other guys. I just don't NEED him. The free weaponry I pick up in Jing Zhou is enough to All-Out the next few battles, maybe even through Shu. Up to and including the Huang Zhong battle I have to struggle struggle struggle to survive, and after? All-Out is all I need. I won't need to waste my time picking up Pang Tong. OH. And I counted using a walkthrough. For optimum time I need to pick up EIGHTEEN gullwings in Ling Ling to last me through the rest of the game. Only two of which might be unnecessary--quick transport to Ji Zhou and back for a quick level up to get An Sha as quick as possible. Why spend one turn taking out ONE general when you can spend one turn taking out all FIVE? Major timesaver. Except I'm so outrageously underleveled. The walkthrough says to use Da Re at around this point. I just now pick up Yan Re at the end of this movie. An Sha is a heck of a long ways away :P It should work out perfectly to hit level 26 at about Wu hopefully, and from there the game will go by like NOTHIN. Oh and at the end of this movie like 10 minutes are spent counting steps to get to Zhu Ge Liang's from Chang Sha and from Nan Yang for the whole deal getting that dude, so the movie's really only about 50 minutes long so far. I 'm hopeful it won't reach the two hour mark, though it WILL be close...
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Hm, that's weird. I got a desync just after you defeated Xing Dao Something (159700 somewhere). Some brigands turned up, you ran away, then you ran into some more and went all out, after that things went downhill.
Twisted_Eye
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Twisted Eye wrote:
Oh and at the end of this movie like 10 minutes are spent counting steps to get to Zhu Ge Liang's from Chang Sha and from Nan Yang for the whole deal getting that dude, so the movie's really only about 50 minutes long so far.
That's what I was talking about here, I should've been more clear. Ling Ling (where Xing Dao Rong is twice) is the last castle of Jing Zhou, so that's where this update technically ends. Everything at this point and beyond is me figuring out how to do the Zhu Ge Liang part fastest so I wasn't stopping to manipulate battles at all.
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Hm, okay... but I don't think your testing included trying to walk into a non-passable tile several times so that the game sounds grt grt grt grt. Because that's what happened right after the brigands. I didn't bother watching any further than that. Since I wasn't prepared for that and didn't make a savestate before it happened, would you mind supplying one with your next update? That way I wont' have to watch the same 50 minutes again. Watching this was entertaining in some mysterious way, even though it was really quite repetitive.
Twisted_Eye
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Yeah, I should go through and make savestates at each section break, I'll add them into the zip with the next update after I beat Yuan Shao. Oh and the whole trying-to-walk-into-water thing for several frames is because at that point I was recording at 1600% speed haha
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It does get long and repetitive in a way, but I actually find it interesting ... especially now that you're destroying enemies with 3x your HP (you'd have as much as them normally), just from finding better weapons on the way, which proves that the damage done depends much more on strength and attack power (weapon) than the level, which is a good thing for such a run too. That 3 minute improvement to where I stopped my old one was already good, I think I was estimating it to end at around 2 hours back then too ... this is progressing well, so I guess we'll find out before too long, hehe. What would be really funny (but maybe not possible) is if you get underleveled enough later in the game that the enemy's HP bars would overflow and loop back (at 4x the amount needed for a full bar, so just over 10000 for orange), but you'd have to get near the end around Level 20 for that to happen, and not pick anyone with over 2000 on the way ...
Twisted_Eye
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UPDATE: Zhu Ge Liang is now my buddy buddy. http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor5.zip And now, save states included! M-Make sure to watch in read-only mode, friendly reminder ;P The amount of gullwings I need to pick up through the game has now jumped up to 21, but I just don't have the inventory space for it. And it turns out you can't buy any in Ling Ling (I'll buy the rest in Luo when I get there). So I redid the Jing Zhou section starting from after I pick up Wei Yan. Pay attention to: 1) Huang Zhong and 2) How many times I heal between Yan and picking up Zhou Yun. And at the end of the movie, the overworld music has finally changed! I've breeched the second half of the game and all in a time of 52 minutes. As far as reaching near the end at level 20, well, at the rate I'm going, I'll be at level 26 after I beat my first 10000+ foe, Ding Meng, a little way into Wu, AND I plan on picking up the awesome freebie Ma Dai at 3400 soldiers at Luo with his tiger bro, Ma Chao, so I don't think your idea will happen, though I'll be perfectly willing to send Song Ren and Song Yong out to fight Si Ma Yi alone for the heck of it later on! EDIT: HOLY COW. I look SO POWERFUL against Yuan Shao and such that I figured I had it made the rest of the game. THE VERY NEXT BATTLE one of the enemies is strong enough to take out everyone but Wei Yan in ONE HIT and the other only hits for a couple hundred less. THIS. SUCKS.
Twisted_Eye
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UPDATE: Shu belongs to Liu Bei. http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor6.fcm No save state needed until next time, use the last one included in the previous zip. This round had a few interesting things involved. For one, that darn gate (guarding Liu Zheng) that plagued me every other time I played the game! Then there's the whole 'enemies kicking my ass' thing, and yet not one battle after that stupid gate requires more than one round of non-all-out. The tactics I get are really useful, particularly Yi Xin. In my first go at the Ma Chao battle, I froze him and Ma Dai for the enTIRE battle with that tactic, it was a thing of beauty. Too bad I had to do that stupid gate AFTER all and I had to completely redo this fight >: ( Oh. And I don't buy an extra gullwing and teleport to the castle I'm already in because it actually took more frames to go that way!
Twisted_Eye
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haha, uh, disregard that last update. I've gotten all the way through Sun Quan at 1:28:something, but after rewatching my movie so far and spending a lot of time thinking, I've come up with some huge strategy changes that'll save a ton of time. A few minutes for sure, minutes I'll need to be below 2 hours at this rate! So I'm redoing everything in the Shu chapter from freeing Liu Zheng from his prison on. I'm going back 30 minutes in movie time, a full third of the movie so far :( The end result should be insane, though! See you next week! *heavy sigh* FOR THOSE THAT CARE: Movie up through Sun Quan http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor7.fcm Might be an interesting watch before watching the next update to see all the changes I make. One really cool thing about THIS movie that won't be in the next is the text that is read when I pick up the Nu Long sword in the cave just after Wu Castle--pay attention to who 'gets' the sword ;P
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That's really good, Destiny of an Emperor is one of my favorite NES games, and I'm TOTALLY into that run!
Twisted_Eye
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FINAL UPDATE: Sun Quan is no more. http://www.twistedeye.net/doae/Destiny%20of%20an%20Emperor8.zip <==Allow the save states to overwrite, the old Liu Zheng one is obsoleted Getting off work 4 hours early today let me catch up easy! I have redone everything through Sun Quan and am 3 good minutes ahead of where I was last, with the changes I made looking to save a little more time even before I finish it all up! With An Sha in my corner, the only thing slowing me down is a lot of walking and the unfortunate fact that Cao Pi and Si Ma Ya are unaffected by the tactic as far as I know (I'll try anyway, it wasn't working on Sun Quan no matter what, though, so I doubt it). 25 minutes to do 20 battles, only 5 of which contain Pi or Ya, so I'm thinking 2 hours shouldn't be a problem at all! *hi-fives FozzBozz's avatar* NEXT UPDATE is just going to be doublechecked wholly and then submitted! This should be done before the weekend easily. Yay!