I may still do that. It's really a matter of which is faster: The Hills have Eyes or Towers of Blood + Alien Twilight, as both paths lead to the same level. I could do Towers of Blood + The Crypt, but the Crypt is painfully slow.
And it seems the teleporter in Alien Twilight leads to a very bad spot in the next level, so the Hills are sounding better and better. They would sound even *better* if there was a flag there, but noooo, there's more ****ing teleporters...
Update: Decided to do the Hills. I'm very proud of my Bagel Brothers boss fight, too. I pick up a hidden Bezerker helmet midway through bouncing on a boss's head. And Skycutter sees some use in Diamond Edge, so there's only three helmets not used so far.
Update: Aaaargh! Ice God's Vengeance is another flagless level! Curse you, Sega, curse youuuuu!
While I was planning whatever I was going to do with these stupid flagless levels, I thought to myself, "Damn this game is long." The movie's nearly 31 minutes long. On the plus side, the total for the times given for speed bonus means they expected me to get this far in ~45 minutes, plus the times it takes to do Diamond Edge (about a minute) and Ice God's Vengeance (about another minute), the two levels I use warps in. So I knocked off about a third of the time it'd normally take to do each level fast.
Lessee, this, Beneath the Twisted Hills, Alien Isle, Sky Fortress, The Shimmering Caves, The Final Marathon, and finally Plethora. At least, that's what the GameFAQs guide says, and it's certainly not always right.
Haaaa....
Hahaha....
Haaaaahahahahahahaaaaaa....
It is aliiive! Aliiiiiive! Woooohooo!
Final time: 35:36
And it's 1:46 in the morning. Woooo.... I hear angels singing the hallelujah chorus... Or maybe that's just Winamp...
Pity the run degenerated into a warp-fest after that stupid stupid Diamond Edge level. Oh well. I'm still calling it "Warpless" because "As-few-warps-as-possible" doesn't sound nearly as good.
Um, you guys probably want to see the run, right? Right.
http://nifboy.keenspace.com/images/KidChameleonwarpless-nifboy.zip
I take two hits in the vid, mostly because, at the time, I felt more like saving time than being perfect.
I actually use a diamond power, too.
Looks very good! There is a huge shortcut in the level right before Bagel Brothers which you miss - after you take the cyclone helmet, you can go left and fly right up to the flag.
Looks very good! There is a huge shortcut in the level right before Bagel Brothers which you miss - after you take the cyclone helmet, you can go left and fly right up to the flag.
True, this saves a few seconds, but I would have to wait for the drill blocks that completely block the way to stop drilling, or take a hit. In my planned "medium version" which uses warps, just not the end-level one, I'd do that.
I thought you could take more hits without looking sloppy, but that's just me. I know other people are more averse to taking damage in these runs. If it saves time, but not otherwise, I think it's OK.
You used the berzerker a lot against the bosses. Does the his headbutt do more than one jumping hit? I think there are samurai and axe masks lying around which possibly could be faster.
I know, this game is fawking long. When I played this game on a real console getting through it could take one to two hours. Mostly because I died a lot, of course :) The final levels are hell.
If you are using warps except for the end-level one, will you be using the one which leads to the level after Boomerang Bros? That takes some skill to do, after all. But perhaps it is more interesting to see the first half of the game done quick too.
I thought you could take more hits without looking sloppy, but that's just me. I know other people are more averse to taking damage in these runs. If it saves time, but not otherwise, I think it's OK.
You used the berzerker a lot against the bosses. Does the his headbutt do more than one jumping hit? I think there are samurai and axe masks lying around which possibly could be faster.
I know, this game is fawking long. When I played this game on a real console getting through it could take one to two hours. Mostly because I died a lot, of course :) The final levels are hell.
If you are using warps except for the end-level one, will you be using the one which leads to the level after Boomerang Bros? That takes some skill to do, after all. But perhaps it is more interesting to see the first half of the game done quick too.
First, I *am* one of those that hates taking damage. You'll notice in the final marathon I wait for a ram (though rams move considerably faster than, say, alien robots, and I already took a hit). I particularly hate the one in the Cliffs of Illusion because it *looks* like you can jump on his head but you can't.
Second, when I use Bezerker on Shishkaboss, it's for the shortcut two levels later that allows me to do a level in one second (I'm particularly proud of it). Picking up Bezerker on the Bagel Brothers was more of a "I hit the prize block while jumping on his head and I'm going to switch helmets next level, so I may as well use it to cause some extra damage." I don't like spending a few seconds to go out of my way to pick up a helmet that'll save a few seconds.
Third: I'm impressed you actually beat it. I usually got stuck somewhere around Devil's Marsh back when I was a kid.
Fourth: I'm not sure what warp you're talking about. I know there's one on Hoverboard Beach that lets you skip like a dozen levels as well as the Boomerang Bros, which I'll be using.
The secret warp to Woods Of Despair:
Do Blue Lake Woods 1 & 2 and get all bonuses (time, no prize, no hit). Do Highwater Pass 1 and get time and no hit bonus. (You have to get the helmet here, no prize bonus isn't possible.) In Highwater Pass 2, take the teleport to Elsewhere A, and take the cyclone. Exit into Under Skull Mountain 1. Go down a bit in this level, after a while there is a secret room you can fly to in the upper right portion. Smash the four blocks for 10,000 points and the warp will activate. (There is another description at GameFaqs, but it's crap. Use this one instead.)
Even if you decide not to use this warp, you should consider taking the cyclone anyway because it cuts down time a lot in both Under Skull Mountain levels and Lions Isle.
The berzerker shortcut after Shishkaboss (or am I mixing it up? the iron column level anyway) is very cool and I think you should use it. I meant at Boomerang and Bagel. Isn't going out of your way to speed up a few seconds what time attacks are all about? :)
In Devil's Marsh 2 you could opt for the cyclone after you open up the path downwards with Red Stealth. The cyclone is slower at the end of DM2, but saves some time in the following three levels; Knight Isle, Whale Grotto, and Hoverboard Beach. Don't know which is faster, you'll have to experiment. Decisions, decisions...
>I'm impressed you actually beat it. I usually got stuck somewhere around Devil's Marsh back when I was a kid.
Hehe. *takes a bow*
Ech. I never really liked "secret" warps. It feels too much like cheating to me. I do have pretty much everything up to the "warp to Elsewhere A" part done, though.
I never thought of picking up Cyclone after busting through the ice in DM2. I was trying too hard to follow the icicles down. That'd actually save a minute or two (you'll notice I pick up Micromax and keep him through those levels in order to do Hoverboard Beach really fast).
nifboy, sweet run that u made for the warpless version, tho im sure it could be improved ( but i don't know the game so well to tell you where :/ ).
I really enjoyed it :)
The warps are your choice of course, but I don't think it's very different from "welcome to warp zone" in Super Mario Bros.
I'm sure there are plenty more places like DM2, the iron column level, and others where picking the right helmet in advance can cut time dramatically. We just have to find them.
What runs are you thinking of doing now? I might try to do this if you are going to concentrate on something other.
I haven't decided. I may take a crack at Earthworm Jim or maybe Toejam and Earl. Probably the latter.
But go right ahead and use whatever warps you feel like using. I just did it "warpless" to try and show as many levels as I could (51).
Just letting you and everybody else know that I've started a run on this game. Compared to your times, I got:
Blue Lake 1: 1 sec faster
Blue Lake 2: same time
Highwater 1: 4 sec faster
Highwater 2: 3 sec faster (up to the teleporter, where our paths diverge)
I don't know why I got the same time in BLW2. I know I made an improvement in the start of the level, either i flubbed later in the level, or it wasn't enough to give a full second on the timer, or the enemies are in different spots because I got there earlier so I can't get it faster anyway.
I found another trick in HWP1 too which could save 2-3 seconds, but I have to redo everything afterwards...
I decided to use the warp in Under Skull Mountain anyway, and take damage anywhere it's faster.
I don't have any webspace, otherwise I'd let you see.
I can actually probably imagine what some of those improvements are. For example, in HWP1 I should have hit the Iron Knight P block then jumped on *top* of it, grabbed the helmet, and started climbing from there. HWP2 is likely done without hitting a P block for a Red Stealth.
But I'm surprised HWP2 is only 3 seconds faster, though. I guess the teleporter does take that long to activate.
Yeah, I do that one (jumping on top to get helmet) in HPW1, but I found another one. On the first part with rubber blocks, you can jump up in one bounce. I do it in two now, you did it in several.
I was unclear about HWP2. It's three seconds faster up to the point where we go different ways (under the teleporter). I exit the level more than three seconds before you. It is as you suspected due to dropping the samurai and instead gaining speed from jumping on both hands in the start.
Finding a good path is probably what will take the most time in this game... ideas are very welcome.
Ok, I redid Highwater pass 1 and managed to get six seconds faster there, and probably i squeezed an extra second out of HWP2 too. Now I'm up to Woods of Despair 2 with Red Stealth.
Possible options:
-Shortcut with Red Stealth through blocks (faster on this level)
-Take Skycutter and go long way through level (slower on this level, but possibly faster on the next ones)
Exits:
-Flag to Forced Entry, Cliffs of Illusion, Lion's Den
-Teleport to Valley of Life, The Black Pit, Lion's Den
I'm thinking about picking Skycutter and taking the teleport. Valley of Life can be done quite quick with Skycutter, as can Black Pit. Then I have skycutter for Lion's Den and Wind Castle 1, which should improve things.
An alternative could be to take the shortcut with Red Stealth and run Valley of Life with him, I can pick up Skycutter at Black Pit too...
Thougts, anyone?
Obviously there´s not a lot of interest in discussing paths, so I´ll just list the improvement made at this moment, compared to Nifboy´s run:
Woods of Despair 1: 3 sec SLOWER (due to not having cyclone)
Woods of Despair 2: 1 sec SLOWER (due to exiting through teleport)
Forced Entry and Hills of Illusion traded for
Valley of Life and Black Pit: 38 seconds faster (!)
Lion Hills: 3 seconds faster
Wind Castle 1: 3 seconds faster
Wind Castle 2: 4 seconds faster
Blizzard Mountain: 2 seconds faster
Caves of Ice: 3 seconds faster
Nightmare Peaks 1: 3 seconds faster
Nightmare Peaks 2: 6 seconds faster
Bagel Brothers: 7 seconds faster
Currently at Diamond Edge using Skycutter. There are a lot of exits here and most levels after this one also has multiple exits. I have tried making a map but there are so many levels and different routes that it will take some scouting before continuing the run itself. My idea is to go as quickly as possible to Secrets in the Rocks and from there to Ice God´s Vengeance. After that the game is pretty linear again.
As always, any ideas are welcome. And if anyone´s willing to host the run (only 80 kb) so everybody can see, or just want to see it for themselves, mail me at con_carnage at spaminfestedhotmailaccount dot com.
xou (thanks a lot!) has been as kind as to host the run in it's present state, which is up to Beneath Twisted Hills (the fifth last level). It's currently about 11 mins long and should work with the same ROM as nifboy's run. I'll post the new times later, here it is:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/humpf/runs/KidChameleon-uptoBTH-byTruncated.zip
And well, it's not exactly people hauling ass in this game, it seems it's just me. Maybe people have taken a summer break?
Truncated's run is more warpy, but very nice to watch too.
I think those teleports and all those secondary exits should be used for a run like this. Nifboy's run is pretty nice, but takes a long time :)
I am impressed. I have never even heard of that warp before, and it's very pretty. You do a lot of things I never really thought of (climbing on cannon blocks with Micromax).
I'm kind of curious as to why you do the cannons in Blue Lake Woods II the way you do them. There's also an enemy in Highwater Pass I that I think I did better, but that's just me.
Also, I refuse to believe anyone would willingly subjugate themselves to the horror that is slow-by-default for a full-game run. Ugh.
(Edit: Shaved another two seconds off the short run. See first post for details)
hum horror ?
Why do you talk about horror? :)
Just meant that this game isn't so linear, so why would a run should be linear? :)
Anyway, I enjoyed to watch yours nifboy !
hum horror ?
Why do you talk about horror? :)
Just meant that this game isn't so linear, so why would a run should be linear? :)
Anyway, I enjoyed to watch yours nifboy !
In the options screen you can turn auto-run on, something I think was very useful for my "warpless" version. I noticed Truncated didn't, so I commented on that.
I have identified one mistake in BLW2, where I jump a slope in an unfavourable way, but I guess that is not what you had in mind. Is it the first enemy or some later one? I fall on the first one on purpose since falling is faster than jumping. I might very well have made some mistakes, since those early levels were my first attempt at speed running ever. Also I learned the game mechanics more and more when I played at slow speed.
Which enemy in HWP1, the first blue blob? Stop being so cryptic and help me out! :P
Thanks for the praise anyhow. Though I actually owe a lot of the micromax tricks to you.
I have identified one mistake in BLW2, where I jump a slope in an unfavourable way, but I guess that is not what you had in mind. Is it the first enemy or some later one? I fall on the first one on purpose since falling is faster than jumping. I might very well have made some mistakes, since those early levels were my first attempt at speed running ever. Also I learned the game mechanics more and more when I played at slow speed.
Which enemy in HWP1, the first blue blob? Stop being so cryptic and help me out! :P
Thanks for the praise anyhow. Though I actually owe a lot of the micromax tricks to you.
Sorry 'bout that first mention in BLW2. When I redid it in my short run I realized why you did it that way, but it still seemed weird when you moved backwards when after hitting the cannon block.
But yeah, the first blue blob in HWP1, the one you wait for. When I do it I jump on the back part, while you wait and jump on the middle of him. I think I did do a little bit of waiting, but it's a small mistake.
With the micromax tricks, you found more interesting places to apply them.
