This movie has been cancelled. Check the forum for our current WIP.
SNES9x improvement7. Only WIP1 timing checked.
No warps, passwords, etc. No difficulty selection in game.
Two player run, takes no damage. Death used as a shortcut.
When any enemy is hit by two players at the exact same frame, it will take 2x-3x the normal amount of damage. This makes boss fights extremely efficient. Not sure if this was a programming glitch or intentional.
The double jump technique is used as often as possible to accelerate the run, including killing one player to gain extra height.
The lottery is actually the fastest way to make money in the game. The lottery must be played once to obtain the pass in level 6 and the dictionary in level 8.
This movie is 2:28 faster than the single player. This is due to the boss fights, the lottery vs. the dice game, and also slight optimizations such as jumping ladders as oppose to climbing.
Movie Description:
Two player run of video game based on a popular japanese cartoon.
This movie was made with two players playing two characters.
Usually when we have a movie that's played by 1 player on 1 character, and a new submission comes that has 1 player playing 2 characters, the new submission will obsolete the old one (instead of becoming a new category).
Now, there are two players, and I'm not sure what to do.
(Disclaimer: I didn't watch this movie yet. (And thus, not voting either.))
Wow this must get a Star. Great run. Like the way how you run with the front guy and most defeat enemies with the back guy.
Great Entertainment and great use from the 2. Player with some shortcuts and dead as shortcuts.
And I like games as 2 Player runs when it is possible. Most you have much more ways for Entertainment what you show often in this run.
Many Stars from me for this one *****
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run)
WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB)
Matty
Nice! I like this game (and series), and I like the use of two characters (one killing enemies while the other advances).
However, there were many parts I thought were improvable. What I saw would only save a few seconds total I think, maybe a minute tops, but it was there. So I don't know what to vote. It's well done, but there are mistakes even I can spot?
BTW the anime was made after the game series.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Now, there are two players, and I'm not sure what to do.
I don't see why the number of players that made the movie should make a difference about what the movie obsoletes. The number of characters, maybe, but how many players there were shouldn't matter.
(I haven't watched it yet but if it's over 2 minutes faster than the published run I'll probably vote yes when I do watch it.)
I don't see why the number of players that made the movie should make a difference about what the movie obsoletes. The number of characters, maybe, but how many players there were shouldn't matter.
seconded. IMHO publishing should depend on the movie itself, not on the process of making. The amount of time or work that went into creation, rerecord counts, tools used etc. has never been an issue, and I don't see why tool assistance or even bot assistance is fine while buddy assistance is not. ;)
I watched the 1-player run back when it was released, now I watched the 2-player run. It's certainly interesting, some glitches were used, and I liked the battle tactics using a killer and a runner.
No idea if it's improvable like Boco said though, or how the general execution compares to the single-player run.
I'll vote yes on publishing, because it was entertaining.
I'm not sure what I'd vote on obsoleting the 1-player-run, but I'm not asked about that anyway.
I always thought that as difficult as it is for one person to make a 2-player TAS, it would be much more difficult for two people to do the same. I suppose it depends on the game.
I should watch this run, I like 2-player runs.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I always thought that as difficult as it is for one person to make a 2-player TAS, it would be much more difficult for two people to do the same.
I thought that too. Then again, 3000 rerecords on a 30-minutes game.. it doesn't seem too bad, but I guess that's how all the errors I saw crept in, and with 2 players it's that much harder to optimise because both have to do it right, synchronized...
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
nitsuja wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
Now, there are two players, and I'm not sure what to do.
I don't see why the number of players that made the movie should make a difference about what the movie obsoletes. The number of characters, maybe, but how many players there were shouldn't matter.
I thought that Battletoads set the precedent that using 2 players with 2 controllers was enough to create a new category. Either this should obsolete the older run and the Battletoads movie count should be halved (warp and nonwarp), or this movie should be published in a second category. I would say that the former is a better idea. If we can't come to a decision on this, then how should 1 person controlling 2 characters fare against a 1 person controls 1 character movie? That is, to say, how nitsuja's Kirby Super Star that controlled both players obsoleted my old one player run.
So, umm, deliberate or something. I should have watched and voted on this earlier, but I put it off for tomorrow.
Nice! I like this game (and series), and I like the use of two characters (one killing enemies while the other advances).
However, there were many parts I thought were improvable. What I saw would only save a few seconds total I think, maybe a minute tops, but it was there. So I don't know what to vote. It's well done, but there are mistakes even I can spot?
BTW the anime was made after the game series.
Boco: I'd like to know where you think it could be improved. A few things we found out later in the speed run: The text goes fastest if one player holds B while the other presses rapidly. Additionally, any time you walk diaganol in a town, it slows you down. Any large diagonal needs to be a jump, since the jump doesn't slow you down.
Other things that may have looked like a mistake: In the last level, we both jump on the second to last ladder. That is to put the cloud into position. We tried 20 some times to do it without that, and it just wouldn't sync up right.
Anything else you saw would be very interesting....
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 229
Location: The boonies.
I agree with Boco in that there's room for improvement, but I don't really think it'd add up to a minute. (but then again, we've been surprised by such things before.) Watching this run makes me want to take a swing at this game, try a few different techniques, maybe play with the death shortcut thing.
That being said, the run's still entertaining, and as such I still voted "Yes."
A few things we found out later in the speed run: The text goes fastest if one player holds B while the other presses rapidly. Additionally, any time you walk diaganol in a town, it slows you down. Any large diagonal needs to be a jump, since the jump doesn't slow you down.
Both of these things happen QUITE a lot. Even normal text advancing isn't done in some places (meeting Koban Cat after killing the lantern guy). Route improvements in-town to avoid moving so much out of the way would save a lot. Since the times for the two lantern guy fights are different, one is neccessarily slower. There was also at least one point in which I thought a suicidal piggyback jump would have sped things up (and you have enough spare lives to do that twice - I don't remember if dying resets your power or your sandals, but still). Maybe I could find more specific points if I paid more attention and tested things myself.. as it is there's at least a few seconds of improvement and I honestly think a minute of improvement without major route changes is just on the edge of possible (I could of course be wrong).
It's still a great movie, very entertaining, etc.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
I'd be the first to admit this movie is much better than mine and deserves to be published. The two players at once makes it far more entertaining, and the boss fights are astounding. Using death to save time is something you can't do in a one player run. I also didn't realize you could jump while you were climbing a ladder. Oops :)
That said, Boco is right that there are some slight improvements that could be made. The text scrolling mistake in level 2 is very noticable, and there were a couple other places where it could have been very slightly improved. Of course I also know that getting the text scrolling just right can be rather difficult because of how it works in this game (you have to hold the button, then release and hold again at just the right spot). I also noticed you clipped objects a few times walking through towns (of course it's been a while since I watched my movie so I might have some of that too). Are you sure playing the lottery is faster? The nice thing about dice is it's directly in your path in level 5. I could be totally wrong, of course.
Anyway. Good work guys. Glad to see I'm not the only fan of Goemon out there :)
Both of these things happen QUITE a lot. Even normal text advancing isn't done in some places (meeting Koban Cat after killing the lantern guy).
It's not that we didn't do any text advance... we just did the (admittedly) wrong text advance (pressing B every other frame). We learned that 2 player helped the most, holding B on one and then rapid B on the other, was even FASTER than holding B in single player.
Boco wrote:
Route improvements in-town to avoid moving so much out of the way would save a lot. Since the times for the two lantern guy fights are different, one is neccessarily slower.
Yeah, we admittedly hurried through the town scenes. A few times, the person not in the lead could have killed more, to make more room. Also, figured out that the diaganol jump worked... in the last level...
Boco wrote:
There was also at least one point in which I thought a suicidal piggyback jump would have sped things up (and you have enough spare lives to do that twice - I don't remember if dying resets your power or your sandals, but still).
I'd love to know where! I was surprised with the number of things I found out about my fav. Super Nintendo game in making this speedrun.
Boco wrote:
Maybe I could find more specific points if I paid more attention and tested things myself.. as it is there's at least a few seconds of improvement and I honestly think a minute of improvement without major route changes is just on the edge of possible (I could of course be wrong).
I agree that time could be taken off... perhaps 30 seconds... not much more. The text wasn't HORRIBLE... the towns were the worst part.
Boco wrote:
It's still a great movie, very entertaining, etc.
Thanks, we both enjoyed making it!
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Good one. Yes.
Love the jumping in the rotating rooms.
This was one of Yeoj's favorite parts. :) We both loved the first double jump to get over the dropping spikes.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
I'd be the first to admit this movie is much better than mine and deserves to be published. The two players at once makes it far more entertaining, and the boss fights are astounding.
Yeah, we loved them, at least, after they were done.
JuanValdez wrote:
Using death to save time is something you can't do in a one player run. I also didn't realize you could jump while you were climbing a ladder. Oops :)
That said, Boco is right that there are some slight improvements that could be made. The text scrolling mistake in level 2 is very noticable, and there were a couple other places where it could have been very slightly improved. Of course I also know that getting the text scrolling just right can be rather difficult because of how it works in this game (you have to hold the button, then release and hold again at just the right spot). I also noticed you clipped objects a few times walking through towns (of course it's been a while since I watched my movie so I might have some of that too). Are you sure playing the lottery is faster?
100% sure. You play the dice game 3 times. You would only have needed to play the lottery once. The lottery isn't too far off the beaten path. Additionally, the time you take to rack up the money takes quite a bit of time. I loved your video the first time, but the dice over the lottery made me cringe.
(Nintendo Power love: If you have the real game, and want to beat it, go to the lottery and put it on turbo b. As long as you start with 500 or so gold, you will be infinitely rich, eventually... just the way the probability works out)
JuanValdez wrote:
Anyway. Good work guys. Glad to see I'm not the only fan of Goemon out there :)
Thank you!!! Oh, man, I loved this game. I had originally planned to do a 1 player run, until your version came out, and I thought it was unbeatable. I was crushed. So, I asked Yeoj to join in... I figured the only gain would be the latern man fight. Didn't expect the double hit, the suicidal double jump, etc.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
DarkKobold , prove you love the game and start with the N64 game of goemon =D
well im just kidding but that would be awesome, i love that game
also, nice run, definite yes
100% sure. You play the dice game 3 times. You would only have needed to play the lottery once. The lottery isn't too far off the beaten path. Additionally, the time you take to rack up the money takes quite a bit of time. I loved your video the first time, but the dice over the lottery made me cringe.
Actually I would have had to play twice. You only had to play once because you had two people. I tried to manipulate the slot machine area on level 4 to drop coins so that I would only have to play dice twice, but couldn't get it to work. But anyway, rewatching my movie I see you're right. The lottery is way faster.
This game seems like it could be done much faster (I admit I haven't played it though). But there are several tricks you don't use throughout the game, as if you discovered them midway through and just kept your current progress anyway. It is better to examine a game beforehand to find these glitches so that you could use them all from the start instead of having to start the run over, which is better still than submitting a run that picks the trick up midway through. Examples of this I saw were jumping over the barrels at the end of the first world, killing enemies in your way (instead of walking around them diagonally), and diagonal jumping.
I vote no because the author discovered time-saving methods and didn't fully implement them. However, overall the run had entertainment potential to it and I would most likely vote yes on an improvement that used these tricks throughout.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I'll assume this means the video hasn't been flagged for publishing.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
For what it's worth, I think this should be published on the grounds that it is (in my opinion, of course) considerably more entertaining than the existing published movie, despite being still improvable.
This was more entertaining than the published movie, and doing a 2P run of this game is a great idea, and it led to some neat time-saving tricks. Still, the text and movement are both imperfect.
To answer "Did you enjoy watching this movie?", I say yes. It sure could use an improvement, though.
Voting yes. I think this should obsolete the run on the site now. It's faster and more entertaining and a 1-player run does not offer anything this run doesn't.
