My native language is SAE, Standard American English. I've studied a lot of Spanish, just this summer finished out my minor in it (I'm a college student), and like to think I'm fluent in it. Also, I'm studying French, but I don't know enough to use conversationally.
My future goals are American Sign Language and more thorough mastery of Spanish.
BTW, if any of you want to learn Greek or Latin, I recommend Textkit.
Zurreco wrote:
Dacicus wrote:
BTW, if any of you want to learn Greek I recommend not learning it at
Why's that?
Ps: I agree with Guybrush's teacher, Finnish has indeed quite difficult grammar. It is much more difficult than that of Japanese, for example.
In Japanese, there are only ~5 different patterns in how to conjugate a verb into past tense, but in Finnish, the number is more like >30.
English is my native language. GO USA!!!!(j/k, I hate bush as much/more than the rest of you).
Me gusta pensar que puedo hablar espanol casi fluente, pero hace 3 anos que no tomo clases.
Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
What Truth?
There is nospoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that changes, it is only yourself
I'm fluent in English, being an american citizen and all. I've also taken French in high school, and a semester of American Sign Language (ASL). I want to learn more ASL.
I'm from Russia, and my native language is… umm… Russian (surprised, eh?). :D
Next, I understand written English (a bit worse with spoken English, but oh well…) and my speech is fairly good (but without any external help nor my personal motivation, most of the efforts are drawn to "trying not to make it worse", as I find myself constantly forgetting great parts of the English vocabulary, so now it's far from perfect), though it's a bit harder in "live" conditions… Still, I think a month or two of staying anywhere in England would pump my level up to an appropriate condition.
Games like Diablo II also help when it comes to its vast vocabulary of synonyms (even my English teachers didn't know all of them, heheh).
Another nice thing is to watch various movies in English (Monthy Python films are good for that), and with English subtitles.
I also can decipher a bit of German, French, Spanish and Polish, and some more of Latin/Esperanto. BTW, I plan to study Latin (all by myself, as it now seems to be usual for me) within this or next year, as it greatly helps in understanding some other European languages. As you can see, I'm rather interested in linguistics (a "downside" of being an INTP, lol). :)
I also understand some other Slavic languages as they're all pretty similar.
Zurreco wrote:
I plan to learn Russian within the next 10 years.
And that's pretty unusual since Russian is extremely unpopular, well, almost everywhere on the planet. :) But if you want an advice, feel free to ask (as I'm fairly familiar with all the cultural context that influenced the language for the last 10—15 years).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
And that's pretty unusual since Russian is extremely unpopular, well, almost everywhere on the planet. :) But if you want an advice, feel free to ask (as I'm fairly familiar with all the cultural context that influenced the language for the last 10—15 years).
Is it? I learned Russian in school for two years (but forgot pretty much all of it again later on).
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Bisqwit wrote:
Why's that?
The short version of this tirade would be that Greek is a slowly dying language, namely due to the fact that native Greeks are either too ethnocentric to learn anything else/spread the word or that native Greeks try to be as unGreek as they can be. Coupling that with the fact that Greek is actually two languages in one, and also that Greek is one of the hardest languages to learn/understand/master, it's better to not worry about it. Learning Greek will only help you with learning etymology. Take it from someone who speaks Greek fluently; you will never find a use for this language unless you want to sound like you are always angry or confused. Also, here is to hoping that Greek will go the way of Sanscrit within the next 100 years.
That was the short version.
moozooh wrote:
And that's pretty unusual since Russian is extremely unpopular, well, almost everywhere on the planet. :)
Russian may not be the most popular language, but that doesn't make it any less desirable. I learned the alphabet conversion for it ~5 years ago and was pretty intrigued from there. However, I doubt I'll ever seriously learn Russian, since I hear it is terribly hard to learn.
The short version of this tirade would be that Greek is a slowly dying language [... Y]ou will never find a use for this language unless you want to sound like you are always angry or confused. Also, here is to hoping that Greek will go the way of Sanscrit within the next 100 years.
There are still reasons to learn Greek (or at least older forms of it - study of Greek writings for example). And anyway what's your beef with Sanskrit? That's near the top of my own languages-to-learn list.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Sanscrit is considered a dead language, as no country actively teaches it.
Teaching is not much of a problem, communicating is. As with my English, any studied language quickly stagnates without regular practice with its carriers. And where do you find a Sanscrit speaker? That's one of the main reasons I refused to study Ithkuil, but it's still on my prime list, as I found it the greatest constructed language ever since Latin (and maybe even greater).
Zurreco wrote:
Russian may not be the most popular language, but that doesn't make it any less desirable. I learned the alphabet conversion for it ~5 years ago and was pretty intrigued from there. However, I doubt I'll ever seriously learn Russian, since I hear it is terribly hard to learn.
Well, not that terrible, but yeah, sure it is hard. Especially with those mile-long lists of exclusions from almost every rule, not to mention those ever-changing accents where even us the native speakers make mistakes quite often. >_<
schneelocke wrote:
Is it? I learned Russian in school for two years (but forgot pretty much all of it again later on).
Sadly, it is. Too hard to be popular, especially for a non-european (especially for a non-east-european!). However, I was quite surprised when you said you studied it at school. Was that in Germany?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
In Japanese, there are only ~5 different patterns in how to conjugate a verb into past tense, but in Finnish, the number is more like >30.
There are over 130 ways to conjugate Finnish verbs altogether (compare that to the at most 5 ways to conjugate English verbs). Also nouns have about 14 cases (English nouns don't have them at all).
Curiously, though, Finnish is one of the easiest languages for a child to learn as his native language. An extensive study about this was performed recently. It measured how fast children of different nationalities learn to speak their native language fluently. Finnish was among the easiest ones. Among the hardest ones was German and, perhaps a bit surprisingly, English.
By the way, I understand and speak Finnish very well, as it is my native language (I'm actually rather confident that I can more easily write grammatically correct Finnish than the average Finn... :P ).
I also understand spoken and written Spanish very well. I was completely fluent in speaking and writing it 10 years ago (again, mostly better than natives themselves, especially the writing part), but due to lack of usage it's very difficult now.
I understand spoken and written English quite well. I can write English somewhat fluently (in some cases I need to stop to think, and sometimes even consult the dictionary), but my spoken English is very untrained.
I had a couple of Japanese courses, so I knew some rudimentary things about that language, but I have forgotten much of it due to lack of usage.
In Japanese, there are only ~5 different patterns in how to conjugate a verb into past tense, but in Finnish, the number is more like >30.
There are over 130 ways to conjugate Finnish verbs altogether (compare that to the at most 5 ways to conjugate English verbs).
Well yeah, but I was comparing the number of different patterns in which the words are conjugated. For example, in English, there are approximately two patterns in which to conjugate a noun to plural:
skin -> skins (add "s")
half -> halves (remove "f", add "ves")
Plus a couple of irregular forms, such as mouse -> mice
In Finnish, there are plenty more:
koira -> koirat ( -> t)
aine -> aineet (ne -> neet)
nainen -> naiset (nen -> set)
avain -> avaimet (n -> met)
suksi -> sukset (si -> set)
hius -> hiukset (s -> kset)
hammas -> hampaat (mas -> paat)
ratas -> rattaat (s -> ttaat)
poika -> pojat (ika -> jat)
tyttö -> tytöt (tö -> öt)
maku -> maut (ku -> ut)
and so on.
This is what makes Finnish hard to learn, not the number of cases, I think.
Edit: And also, hard to use in computer programs. Many american computer programmers create "localizable" programs by creating strings that can be translated by replacing them with something else. They might write "Directory contents", and Finnish translators will substitute it with "Hakemiston sisältö".
But when they write "Directory contains {0} {1}s" , (a pattern that will be automatically completed with a number and a word during the program execution, for example, "Directory contains 23block devices"),
it becomes impossible to translate, because there is no single suffix that you can tack into a word in Finnish to make it into plural. The body of the word must also change when it's conjugated.
And in this case, it wouldn't even be the plural form, but the partitive form (which is not any easier).
Are those the regular forms or the crazy exceptions?
They were a few examples I picked from the top of my mind, not some crazy exceptions.
There are plenty of other words that are conjugated the same way as each of the items in the list.
Sadly, it is. Too hard to be popular, especially for a non-european (especially for a non-east-european!). However, I was quite surprised when you said you studied it at school. Was that in Germany?
Yup, and not even in former East Germany, either. ^_~ Of course, it's still not all that common for schools to offer Russian courses, but many (grammar schools, at least) will offer a fourth language (besides English, French and Latin), and Russian is not an altogether uncommon choice there, either. Greek and Spanish are also popular, I think (although I obviously can't speak from experience, as my school only offered Russian).
I speak and write English fluently.
それに日本語が話せる。１年間スウェーデンで勉強して、その後１年間日本に住んでたから、何かぺらぺら話せるけど、漢字がまだ書けなくて大嫌いだ。漢字は多分世界の最低の文字だ。
Я тоже чут-чут говорю по-русский. (Ну привет, муузуух.) Потому что у меня была русская девушка.
Ich kann auch ein bisschen Deutch sprechen und schreiben aber ich habe es zum grössten Teil vergesst. Lesen ist kein Problem.
Och så svenska, förstås.
-----
To add something to the discussion, I found Japanese a lot easier to learn than Russian, despite Russian being a lot closer to my native language. A lot of the vocabulary (especially nouns) are "for free", but the grammar is horrible. I still can't wrap my head around verb aspects or cases.
Я тоже чут-чут говорю по-русский. (Ну привет, муузуух.) Потому что у меня была русская девушка.
:D
Здравствуй, Транкейтед. В следующий раз не забудь поставить мягкие знаки после букв «т» в слове «чуть-чуть». ;)
Вообще, хороший у вас тут форум, мне нравится.
Bisqwit wrote:
But when they write "Directory contains {0} {1}s" , (a pattern that will be automatically completed with a number and a word during the program execution, for example, "Directory contains 23 block devices"),
it becomes impossible to translate, because there is no single suffix that you can tack into a word in Finnish to make it into plural
Yep, same here. There won't be any sensible russian Diablo translations for that reason. %)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I speak and write English fluently.
それに日本語が話せる。１年間スウェーデンで勉強して、その後１年間日本に住んでたから、何かぺらぺら話せるけど、漢字がまだ書けなくて大嫌いだ。漢字は多分世界の最低の文字だ。
Я тоже чут-чут говорю по-русский. (Ну привет, муузуух.) Потому что у меня была русская девушка.
Ich kann auch ein bisschen Deutch sprechen und schreiben aber ich habe es zum grössten Teil vergesst (correction: vergessen). Lesen ist kein Problem.
Och så svenska, förstås.
-----
To add something to the discussion, I found Japanese a lot easier to learn than Russian, despite Russian being a lot closer to my native language. A lot of the vocabulary (especially nouns) are "for free", but the grammar is horrible. I still can't wrap my head around verb aspects or cases.
Wow, respect that you know so many different languages. Not bad!
Sanscrit is considered a dead language, as no country actively teaches it.
Umm... Sanskrit is a dead language because there are no native speakers. That doesn't mean people don't teach it. Or that it's not useful.
Aren't there still a few thousand native Sanskrit speakers? It might well be that there are no new ones born anymore (i.e., no child is born in a family anymore that actually still speaks Sanskrit), but I think I recall that the language is not officially "dead" yet with no native speakers being left at all.
What? You hate Kanji? I love it.
I'm a native English speaker and I'm currently studying Japanese in Japan. Nowhere near fluent, of course, but I can usually get by.
In the trivial department, I spent five years in high school studying French which I can barely remember at all. Six weeks of German are even less memorable. I used to be able to read Hebrew a little bit but I never studied the language, just the aleph bet. I seem to recall a Saturday morning class in Latin during my elementary school days but I can't imagine why. I do remember the Greek alphabet, thanks to a mnemonic device. Of course, that only means I can recite the letters in order, not read or write them!
