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Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
So far so good. I really like the sound glitches/bugs or what ever they are. Sounds like you are dying. :)
Post subject: Mega Man 3 question (second controller input)
Player (71)
Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205
I was watching the newest MM3 run and I had a question occour to my mind. Oftentimes, in these games, the speedrunner utilizes glitches and mistakes in the programming that were never intended to be used in gameplay to make it faster, most of them discovered BY speedrunners.... however isn't there a very well known glitch that if you input commands on controller 2 you can do things like jump very high (save on rush coil)? I seem to remember a popular strategy for beating the last boss is doing a super jump by holding up on controller 2 and you jump and top spinning right into him. is there a particular rule that says this can't be used? becuase it totally should be used! [Edit by Bisqwit: Given a more descriptive subject]
Player (71)
Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205
as a matter of fact, here is the list of these glitches copied from mmhp.net some wouldn't be suitable for a speedrun, but i think some others would, like super jumping, freezing the robots and navigating the pits Super jump: Hold right on controller two and Mega Man’s jumps will almost touch the top of the screen! These eggs are perfect for collecting power-ups. Slow-bo mode: Hold up on controller two for slow motion. (Actually, it’s really only the animations that are slowed down.) Time stop: Hold up and A on controller two to freeze most robots in their tracks—including Mega Man. (You won’t be able to move unless you jump first. But you can still fire your arm cannon, which is why this is such a useful trick.) Note that robots in motion will usually continue to move, but you can use this to freeze most of the Robot Masters during at least one stage of their attack. Then you can fire away at the helpless robot for an easy victory! Jump/Stop combo: Hold up, right, and A to freeze the action and give you the super jump! Invincibility from bottomless pits: If you happen to fall in a pit, quickly press right on controller two and the jump button on controller one to jump out—even after you hear the “death” sound effect! You’ll have to play the rest of the stage without music, but it’s worth it to save your skin! Navigate bottomless pits: Hold right on controller two, then jump into a bottomless pit. Keep that button down while you move left and right using controller one. You can slide through the pit safely avoiding anything up above. When you’re ready to leave, press jump on controller one to get out. There are a couple of catches to this, though—one, if you stay down there too long, you’ll die; and two, sometimes Mega Man takes damage down there. Still, it’s a useful trick to get past those long bottomless pits without using Rush Jet. Missed me! Zombified Mega Man: (Named after the “Zombie” effect in Final Fantasy III.) Here’s a really interesting one to try. While holding right on controller two, jump into a pit. Now hang out down there until you hear the “death” sound effect and your energy meter plunges to zilch. When this happens you must jump out immediately or Mega Man will perish. Once you are out of the pit, you can journey on with absolutely no energy. No robots will be able to damage you. The disadvantage is you can’t fire your arm cannons (Mega Man no longer has enough energy to do that!), but you are allowed to fire all the Master Weapons you’ve obtained (which run off their own energy supply)—including Rush—which means you’ll be able to defeat the stage boss with no problem! One final note on this trick: any energy you pick up will cure Mega Man’s “zombie” state by restoring some of his health. He will be able to fire again, but he will also be able to die. An Energy Tank will also do this to him, in case you need to be able to fire again. Weapon energy will not, so you can safely charge up your weapons like normal and still be “zombified.” Turn a weapon energy capsule into Rush Jet/Marine: Having problems getting past the pink lifts in Spark Man’s stage, or the underground lake in Gemini Man’s stage? Would Rush really come in handy but you haven’t beaten the robot necessary to get the correct form? Then this trick is for you. First, find a weapon energy pellet or capsule (a capsule would be better as you’ll get more energy for it.) Now, go to your sub screen. If you want Rush Marine, point to the Spark Shooter; if you need Rush Jet point to the Shadow Blades. (You therefore must have these weapons for this trick to work.) Now press right. Rush will appear, wagging his tail. Press A or START. Pick up the energy capsule. Although the chosen mode won’t appear on your weapons list until you either use it or get it for real, you can now use Rush in this new form. Also, you’ll have to fill up its energy before it will be of much use, but this can get you out of some tight spots! Sustained Rush Jet: This one’s covered in the Data Base section. Whacked-Out Level: (Submitted by too many people to name.) Use the super jump listed above to enter the screen in Gemini Man’s level where Proto Man appears. If you position yourself correctly, you will fall straight through the block that Proto Man lands on, before he even blows it up. I hear this will cause his whistle to extend and goof up the graphics for the rest of the level, although I’ve not tried it myself. Longer Whistle: (Submitted by too many people to name.) I’m told that if you open the subscreen with just the right timing when Proto Man is making an appearance, you can hear more of his whistle than what plays normally. I haven’t tried this, but my guess is this extended whistle is identical to the one which plays during the ending. Invincibility: Go to the weapons screen, then hold up and A on controller two as you exit the subscreen. Mega Man will get frozen in his faint-warp state and cannot be harmed! This isn’t really useful because you can’t do anything while phased, but it’s a pretty neat trick. (Try it while fighting the Yellow Devil!) Its greatest asset is its use in the trick below... Longer ending: After beating the game, hold up and A on controller two during the time that Dr. Light is telling Mega Man, “I discovered you lying here when I came in. I wonder who...” Then, keep holding these buttons down! The ending will continue like normal until Mega Man tries to teleport out of the lab. At this point, because you are holding down the freeze buttons, he will get stuck in his teleport stance and nothing will happen. The music will continue to play, and you can sit there and listen to it as long as you keep those buttons held down. (Thanks to Metool for telling me about this.) Try this, as the ending music is actually about two times longer than what you normally hear—and it gets pretty wild too!
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I think that it's actually an intended cheat feature rather than a glitch in the game, therefore, no one's really bothered to use it.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205
well especially if it's intended it should be using, because it would save loads of time, if you could super jump there's no reason to switch to rush coil for example
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
We don't use those 2nd-controller codes because they are intended cheats. They would make the game too easy. More info: http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html#cheat_keys_and_debugging_codes_are_not_allowed_ There are glitches that result from using cheat codes, but that's still using cheat codes.
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
The second controller working the way it does is not a coincidence. It is a crafted feature for the game debuggers. Using that feature makes it quite a different game. Call it a fine line, but I don't allow features like that be used in speedruns. Glitches, like Megaman poking his head into a ceiling when his height suddenly changes when getting damage and then consequently zipping through the wall, are ok.
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
Not to stir up anything, but wouldn't the wild warp code that was used in Crystalis fall under the same category? It's just about as well known and allows you to get places that aren't normally accessable in such a way.
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..." -Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
Joined: 12/7/2005
Posts: 11
Location: Quebec (Germany for now)
Hamm wrote:
Not to stir up anything, but wouldn't the wild warp code that was used in Crystalis fall under the same category? It's just about as well known and allows you to get places that aren't normally accessable in such a way.
Me thinks you're right. o.o
Player (71)
Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205
The same thing could be said for the soft reset trick in zelda and metroid then using the 2nd controller.
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
That's why I said "call it a fine line [if you wish]". Rules like these are often arbitrary and have to be decided on case-by-case basis. For Mega Man 3, the case is that second controller tricks are not allowed.
Player (86)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I wouldn't want the second controller either. IMO, Megaman games are more for speedrunning. So, seeing how fast they can be beaten(without codes, cheats) is amazing.
Joined: 3/31/2005
Posts: 148
Location: Colorado
I discovered a cool trick playing this game today. I'm not sure exactly the mechanism, but during the airman fight during the protostages, if you slide into one of his tornados, it can shoot you all the way across to the right to inside airman. Not sure if its useful or not, but it could save time getting shots on airman.
Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth. What Truth? There is nospoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that changes, it is only yourself
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
You mean in Mega Man 2?
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
No.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
Oh, sorry! Didn't notice it was in protostages. My bad.
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Its Mega Man when he is drunk.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Post subject: Mega Man 3 - Revised Proposal of new TAS Plan
Joined: 4/16/2006
Posts: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi to you all, I might be a newcomer to the forums so I like to introduce to myself. I have been a video gamer like many video game entusiasts since at a young age. I have been viewing this site for some time now, and have seen the submissions of Tool-Assisted Speedruns from various authours. What inspired me to come here was the 1st TAS speedrun of the infamous SMB3 Speedrun and drew a lot of feedback as well as a lot of criticism. From what I've observed there are quite a lot of submissions of very interesting TAS submissions and I would like to contribute as well by providing my 1st TAS but it's far from complete. From all the games that are available I chose Mega Man 3 using the US Version ROM. I could have chosen the Japanese ROM but I'd rather choose a game that I can understand in my language. I've seen so far the 3 submissions of Mega Man 3 although they are impressive but going through various sites and myself discovering how to utilize a NEW Jump Trick effectively that allows Mega Man to jump higher than normal without the need of using the Rush Coil, so I thought why wasn't this technique used from the previous and current submissions in the first place? If that is ok with you guys I would like to submit a WIP rather than a full submission mainly because it's not complete and i need to compare very carefully if the stages i've completed is actually faster than what others have acheieved. Here are my submission details. Emulator Used : FCEU v0.98.15 Rom Used : Mega Man 3 (U) [!] (Verified Rom) Redo Count: Actual is 1283 but last updated video file displays as 152 for some reason I recorded a new movie from start and loaded up my current save state from pausing the emulator and replayed the Hard Man Boss. I'm not sure why I couldn't keep my current redo progress as other people's submissions although the movie file states it's started from power on. Time Length of Movie : 3:46 - Takes Damage to save time ( I did not take any damage until the Hard Man Boss Fight) - Uses No Passwords ( Did not use any passwords to skip levels or get 9 E-Tanks etc.) - Abuses Programming Errors in the Game ( The most obvious notice is utilizing the Jump Trick that allows Mega Man to jump higher than normal) - Genre: Platform, Shooter I encourage for all you people who are a fan of platform games especially mega man games to come and have a look and any feedback are appreciated before I continue my progress. Thank You. Link to File : http://www.geocities.com/zerotech80/tas/mm3save.zip Unzip and play the mm3-tas-zerotech-wip-phase1.fcm movie file.
Why can't I myself improve on my skills just because of my silly name?
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Yeah, there are a few different effects you can get from pushing buttons on the second controller, but I think they're disallowed for speed runs because they seem to be leftover debug code and not a legitimate way to play. But who knows? Maybe it can be a run in another category.
Zerotech wrote:
infamous SMB3 Speedrun
Why do people keep calling it infamous? I should think it's just plain FAMOUS.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/16/2006
Posts: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Yeah, there are a few different effects you can get from pushing buttons on the second controller, but I think they're disallowed for speed runs because they seem to be leftover debug code and not a legitimate way to play. But who knows? Maybe it can be a run in another category.
That is probably the only thing I should be concerned about, whether or not this trick is allowed is really left up to the judges and as well as the administrators to decide over the legitimate use of this abusive error code. Although this case of me using the jump trick I managed to get to complete the Hard Man stage faster by avoiding the bees at the start instead of shooting it which wastes time and successfully manage to avoid it rather than getting hit from previous submissions which also wastes time. It seems to me like I'm going to have to wait is this is ok to use otherwise it'll be pointless continuing the project if the entertainment value is devalued by not employing new tricks as well as tactical gameplay changes.
Why can't I myself improve on my skills just because of my silly name?
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Have you been comparing times with the latest movie to make sure you haven't missed any techniques?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/16/2006
Posts: 5
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I have for at least the Hard Man Stage. I've compared the time values of my submission as well as the current and previous submissions for the beginning of the Hard Man Stage. I know that de-sync can actually increase frames and could add to time, but I found that on that occassion I prefer that part of the stage to de-sync and not get hit is faster than the current submission that uses the Magnet Missile to take out the swarm of bees as well as getting the Weapon Energy Refill not to mention the time it takes to switch to the Magnet Missile in the first place.
Why can't I myself improve on my skills just because of my silly name?
Joined: 3/16/2006
Posts: 289
I say go for it! Rules be darned!
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
But you didn't even jump down certain chutes...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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